| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Fox
USA
496 Posts |
 Posted - 02/02/2010 : 07:57:23
|
| I had 3 laminectomies and one two level anterior spinal fusion with the titanium cages (and many other procedures and treatments). None of them helped the original sciactia, primarily in the ankle and foot. I had several bad side effects afer the fusion and increased pain for about a year. After 20 years of pain, I got serious about Sarno and now am 90% improved (for the last two years) in regard to pain and have resumed all former activities except for running (am walking briskly 45 minutes a day plus doing lots of crunches and isometrics but have a conditioning thing about running that I hope to eventually break)....Also, somewhere on this forum - a long time ago - there was posted a study published in New York that said that spinal fusion (didn't mention laminectomies) had an extremely poor success rate. |
 |
|
|
mk6283
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2010 : 19:30:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by ghopkins
Hi, I am trying to schedule an appointment with Dr. Sarno. I have ruptured disc and can't walk. I need to know honestly, should I get surgery to fuse my back or will Sarno's approach help me to live pain free? Please, PLEASE, be honest with me. I read a lot of posts that said people are still suffering pain. If surgery is my best bet, please tell me. Thank you for your honest replies. If you are afraid to post on this forum, please use 'ghopkins AT optonline.net'
God bless you for helping me to find the truth! The pain, fear, and drugs are causing my family, and me, a lot of pain. We keep praying for the right thing to do.
Greg,
If you opt for surgery, you will be doing yourself a tremendous disservice. Spinal fusion is not an evidence-based procedure. I've never heard of one being performed in any reputable academic medical center. In the absence of appreciable neurologic deficits, spinal surgery, in general, should probably be avoided all together.
I've had 10/10 back pain and sciatica that I've written off as TMS only to see it vanish in days. Thousands of others have experienced similar results, some having suffered for years (even decades) before coming across Dr. Sarno's work.
Most chronic back pain is psychosomatic. That is the essence of it all and it should be at the heart of any treatment approach. Once you can believe that at your core -- with absolute certainty -- the pain will go away completely. Unfortunately, achieving that required belief at all levels is much more difficult for some than others. Nevertheless, good medicine is medicine aimed at the source of the disease. Treating back pain as TMS is good medicine. I hope you'll give it the fair shot it deserves.
Best Regards,
Michael Kadoch, MD |
|
|
|
ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2010 : 08:27:23
|
Dr. Sarno called me yesterday. He finally received and had a chance to review my CT Scan, x-rays, and MRI. We spoke for quite some time and he said I had two choices. I could get better on my own using what he would teach me or I could pay the fee and meet with him. I decided I can not afford not to pay the fee and meet with him. Even though I'm obsessive and compulsive and ordered all the Dr.'s books from Amazon and I've read all but one twice, I don't think I can do this on my own. Even if it is just to see him and hear it directly from him in person, I think will work better for me. I have a lot of signs of TMS that I originally felt ashamed to mention. Two big ones are that I have 23 years sobriety (lots of info there, if you seek it out) and I am diabetic. Do I believe in a mind body connection? Heck YES! Do I believe that the pain I feel is caused by my mind? Yes, I believe it more each day. I have a ton of outside stress, but loads more internal tension caused because by a lack of acceptance and I want what I want when I want it. I'm a perfectionist and more.
Thank God my wife understands me (probably more than she wants to)because she was as relieved from Dr. Sarno's call as I was.
My two sons (20 & 22) think I'm crazy and that the Dr. and mind-body connection is a scam. Sadly, both boys are type A, and extremely hard on themselves. Nobody can give us the kind of good beating we give ourselves.
One last note; within 15 hours of speaking to Dr. Sarno my pain level,
on a scale of 1 to 10 (max) went from an 8 to a 4. Could just be from white coat fever, as I call it. Dr.'s can raise my BP just by walking into a room or I can start to feel better because they tell me I will start feeling better. I am quite a piece of work. LOL
I see the Dr. next week. I will keep you posted. Thanks to all those that shared your hope, strength, and experience. Feel free to email me directly, if you like. |
|
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2010 : 09:35:52
|
| Good luck Greg. Hopefully you can dismiss the uninformed naive opinions of your sons and commit to TMS treatment. The majority of people will feel the same way. I count myself among the privileged few who do not have the arrogance to dismiss the mindbody connection, and as a result, live a healthier life. |
|
|
|
catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2010 : 13:26:37
|
Hi Greg,
In every situation in life there is always a doubt about the outcome.
Considering all that you wrote so far seeing Dr. Sarno should work pretty well. Now that you are where you wanted to be please give yourself a chance. All the best.
|
|
|
|
pandamonium
United Kingdom
202 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2010 : 15:11:11
|
Greg, you wrote: "I have this feeling that I have failed my family and lost many of my dreams" and I know exactly how you feel.
I had severe back pain for 10 years and felt I let my children and husband down in so many ways. When I had my TMS diagnosis confirmed I broke down in tears, I could not believe I had done this to myself. But my doctor was very kind and told me if was no more my fault than it was my fault for having green eyes. His comment stayed with me. Try and show yourself some compassion, it helps.
I've been pain free for 2 years now despite a fissure in one disk, a fused back from T2 to L2, and scoliosis. Sarno gave me my life back.
Good luck,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's... |
|
|
|
HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2010 : 16:29:23
|
Don't underestimate the power of the white coat!
There weren't any TMS docs here when I was getting better but seeing a mindbody professional certainly helped me on the road to recovery, as well as encouragement from those who had already recovered.
Hilary N |
|
|
|
patrickneil
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2010 : 18:39:44
|
| I have to say I am confused by all this. Are people who say the TMS program worked for them pain-free or do they just learn to live with their pain and not let it control them anymore? I think one of my biggest barriers is I fear the pain never going away. |
|
|
|
skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2010 : 09:45:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by patrickneil
I have to say I am confused by all this. Are people who say the TMS program worked for them pain-free or do they just learn to live with their pain and not let it control them anymore? I think one of my biggest barriers is I fear the pain never going away.
well, a "tms program" is all relative, and individualistic.
2-3 years ago a lot of people would have been telling you to write write write. Then came the just "bear and challenge the pain" to prove to your unconcious your'e fine. Then there was the "programming program" where you could write affirmations or record yourself telling you how normal your body is. Then psychologically you could seperate yourself from your ego, and realize how you've been stressing yourself, and now it has kinda been the program to simply do nothing but ackowledge, and live your life with it, giving yourself pain meds, or heat pads when you need it, but don't attatch any signigicant emotions to it. And in hindsight you'll realize you actually have a life, and the intensity of it went away with no deadline.
Every approach has given results to many here. Oh, forgot to mention screaming and breaking things , my own experience did not yield any results, but some claim it worked wonders.
When I first heard of Sarno, reading his book over and over was nothing that anyone told me to do, I just couldn't put it down after being programmed with doom and gloom all your life about watching your back, and all roads leading to the "Fusion Rome". It was just so refreshing. There was no forum for me to visit back then. And I was still afraid of my back, but at some point I turned to my wife and said "you know what, since I've been reading that Sarno book, my back doe'snt bother me anymore." Followed by her saying "thats nice dear."
When I relapsed, at what was most likely a real sprain from the workout at the gym I did (intense lifting), I jumped into Sarno treatment lock stock and barrel and was determined to prove I was okay, and it was just a trigger cause it happened at the same time I was under an immense amount of stress, so it had to be. This built so much resistence, I built an altar to having a huge success story here (ego) and my pain went thru the roof, to suicidal levels. For a long time.
It took me a long time to see all the resistence I built up, and the process of letting go took a long long time. In retrospect, I wish that I had accepted the sprain, and took pain meds, and used heat pads and just relaxed knowing I'd be okay. And I woulda been just fine. But I was under a lot of stress at work since I was in big trouble there, and needed to keep working out, but could'nt.
So where was I? Oh, be careful about coining the phrase "TMS program", and trying to understand the correct way to go about becoming pain free. When it hurts take a med, otc or whatever. Sit, lie, stand, ackowledge the "what if this is forever, or gets worse?" questions as "thoughts". Thoughts, believe it or not are not you. They are simply the humand mind doing it's job to fix a problem. And it fixes problems by shooting for the worst case scenario's in order to find ways to avoid them. Thats why in the beginning of world war 2 we had propeller planes, and at the end we were in jets, just the function of the human mind. Fix it! Better it! Unfortunately, that natural mind power also fuels TMS.
If you can seperate yourself from your thoughts, and feelings of fear, and ackowledge the pain has to do with that Sarno stuff, and even if you don't understand it to the degree you want to, you will still have cut off the fuel supply. Unfortunately, you setting a deadline is fuel. It's a hindsigt type kind of thing. Kinda like successful marriage counseling, I suppose starting out and going thru it sucks, but you'll find that your'e in a better relationship then you were 2 years before. Way better.
|
|
|
|
catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2010 : 15:21:28
|
As far as back pain goes I can say I'm pain free (thanks to Dr Sarno if there is a need to know) so I suppose you can get pain free too.
We don't know why as human being we have emotions, we just do.
TMS involves our emotions unconscious and conscious. And for some people it is difficult to accept that the buried emotions are entirely responsible for their misery because they are not trained to think that way.
It is fantastic that someone thought of that possibility ,developed a theory about it and cured thousands of people and the number is growing.
The concept is not new but it just was not made easily available before as it is now.
Apparently believing the pain is emotionally based poses a big problem in our society: How much presence should emotions have in our lives? Some countries are much more flexible about that then others. So the answer to that varies but a fact remains: We must repress emotions to some degree to fit in the context.
Okay . So which emotions should that be and which ones can be left out ? Well it's a cultural thing I suppose. Many posts in here make that clear but does that mean TMS would disappear if we had the opportunities to express our emotions more openly? For one thing with tms not everyone represses the same emotions in the same way...
Its perfectly clear that emotions are the issue but what do we do with the emotions then ? even if we acknowledge them and the problem is fixed maybe new ones will take over and then what?
As skizzik says there are many ways to handle the emotions when the problem is there.
But what is there to do after or before the early episodes to stop it before it ruins one's life or an entire family's life? For many of us we 'll have to deal with what there is but for the newly affected ones how do they stop the development of this condition before it takes over because of the emotions they can not live? Are there any solutions to that?
A question I asked myself quite often was : If it is enough to know that the reason for pain is psychosomatic to cure it for some and other people require psychotherapy to achieve the same result then where is the difference between these individual? and especially how do they handle their emotions to begin with?
I come to question what I wrote about the volume versus the nature of the emotions responsible for the disorder but also it can be both so the question goes back to what do we do with the emotions that are part of who we are then?
I feel that as long as we don't have the answer to that TMS will keep on reoccurring in a different place or with different symptoms. This is why many people say: I think of it and bang there it goes!
|
Edited by - catspine on 02/16/2010 13:31:44 |
|
|
|
HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2010 : 07:58:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by patrickneil
I have to say I am confused by all this. Are people who say the TMS program worked for them pain-free or do they just learn to live with their pain and not let it control them anymore? I think one of my biggest barriers is I fear the pain never going away.
I'm pain-free - with the minor equivalent popping up every now and then, but nothing that's anywhere near as big a deal as my RSI was. One example of an equivalent I get is occasional headaches, but I can usually get rid of them using a TMS approach. If I can't, I take an aspirin. No big deal.
Hilary N |
Edited by - HilaryN on 02/14/2010 08:02:04 |
|
|
|
HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2010 : 08:00:16
|
I think it's worth adding that fear can be more disabling than the pain itself and for some people, the removal of that fear is in itself a big improvement for them.
Hilary N |
|
|
|
patrickneil
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2010 : 22:59:33
|
| thanks so much. This all helps me along my journey, and I'm sure it helps others reading as well. |
|
|
|
ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2010 : 15:15:27
|
Thank you, everyone, for your comments. I had the opportunity to meet with Dr. Sarno, and the diagnosis is TMS. After having read three of his books, I pretty much knew that going in. I was given a Study Guide
to follow for a month and have already committed two days to doing the work. I may start a new thread for support as work through the guide.
All my best,
Greg
PS- Just found out TMS qualified me to be terminated from my job today. |
|
|
|
HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 15:34:25
|
Greg,
That's good news about seeing Dr Sarno and I wish you all the best.
But what do you mean, TMS qualified you to be terminated from your job? I'm horrified and sorry to hear that. Could you explain more if you're able?
Hilary N |
|
|
|
ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 21:03:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by HilaryN
Greg,
That's good news about seeing Dr Sarno and I wish you all the best.
But what do you mean, TMS qualified you to be terminated from your job? I'm horrified and sorry to hear that. Could you explain more if you're able?
Hilary N
Hi Hilary,
I was fired because I was not able to come into the office
and my treatment did not involve surgery. In other words, my boss
found some loopholes and fired me. A co-worker made mention of mental illness. I know I do not have a mental illness and that everyone has unconscious feelings. Mine got out of control and it could be because I really hated my job. I am filing a dispute with disability and the Dept. of Labor. I actually have indications that Sarno's homework is working, however, the improvement is slight with movement and control. The pain is different and moves, sometimes calming, while others increasing. |
|
|
|
catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 23:29:55
|
You know Greg on the long term this may be the best thing that happened to you . I hope your filing with the Department of Labor goes through and produces a replacement solution to your income while you get better You can probably find a job you like better later and that will help in your recovery. If your boss found a loop hole maybe you can find one too 
Good to hear you're making progress with the symptoms .Never let the doubt invade your mind, you'll be better soon. Let us know if you need some support.
|
|
|
|
patrickneil
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 23:51:11
|
quote:
I've had 10/10 back pain and sciatica that I've written off as TMS only to see it vanish in days. Thousands of others have experienced similar results, some having suffered for years (even decades) before coming across Dr. Sarno's work.
Most chronic back pain is psychosomatic. That is the essence of it all and it should be at the heart of any treatment approach. Once you can believe that at your core -- with absolute certainty -- the pain will go away completely. Unfortunately, achieving that required belief at all levels is much more difficult for some than others. Nevertheless, good medicine is medicine aimed at the source of the disease. Treating back pain as TMS is good medicine. I hope you'll give it the fair shot it deserves.
Best Regards,
Michael Kadoch, MD
Michael, I feel that its a lot psylogoical for me, but how did you find the strength and will to just write it off as TMS. How were you so convinced. How do you just convince yourself that you have TMS before you actually get better? I just got done with Dr. Schubner's program, and my problem is I did all the work and I identified a lot of stressors, but I dont feel I was able to really build the confidence I needed. How do I do this? |
|
|
|
ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 17:29:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by catspine
You know Greg on the long term this may be the best thing that happened to you . I hope your filing with the Department of Labor goes through and produces a replacement solution to your income while you get better You can probably find a job you like better later and that will help in your recovery. If your boss found a loop hole maybe you can find one too
Good to hear you're making progress with the symptoms .Never let the doubt invade your mind, you'll be better soon. Let us know if you need some support.
Thank you very much! I could always use the support, even when I think I can handle it on my own. I found myself standing several times today, however, without using a crutch to support me. Once up, I could bend and pick up the crutch. It has been a week, today, since we went to see Dr. Sarno.
I need support with patience. When everyone leaves the house and I'm alone, that is when the frustration and lack of patience starts. I get a thought that I should being doing better. I know better than that. ;o)
I will keep it to a day at a time.
Thank you! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Completely Pain Free? Are You Really?
