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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
 Posted - 01/28/2010 : 20:38:20
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Hi, I am trying to schedule an appointment with Dr. Sarno. I have ruptured disc and can't walk. I need to know honestly, should I get surgery to fuse my back or will Sarno's approach help me to live pain free? Please, PLEASE, be honest with me. I read a lot of posts that said people are still suffering pain. If surgery is my best bet, please tell me. Thank you for your honest replies. If you are afraid to post on this forum, please use 'ghopkins AT optonline.net'
God bless you for helping me to find the truth! The pain, fear, and drugs are causing my family, and me, a lot of pain. We keep praying for the right thing to do. |
Edited by - ghopkins on 01/28/2010 20:39:28 |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 21:46:07
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Hi ghopkins,
I am both surprised & also not surprised that there have been no replies to either of yr posts. You have asked a direct question which I think no one can really answer for you. The only two people who can decide the outcome of whether what you have is tms are you & your doctor.
Relief from pain depends on a lot on factors such as what you have, do you indeed have tms, how willing you are to work with the tms programme, your personality profile etc etc.
Have you read any of sarno's books, do you see yourself as possibly a candidate for tms?
How about the success stories on this forum? have you read any stories that resonate with your own situation?
Maybe wait till after yr appt. with Sarno before you make a choice.
Sorry not to have been of more help. My best wishes & thoughts arewith you.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
Edited by - mala on 01/28/2010 21:47:43 |
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HellNY
130 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 22:47:49
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Im not sure you are ready to hear this answer, because its the "third" way that may not nmake any sense when you hear it.
I am not completely pain free. But I do not suffer. I live a normal life.
I dont talk about or obessess about pain all day. I watch movies. Go to restaurants. Eat fun foods. Work on restoring a huge old house. I read. I imagine. I live my life.
Pain doesnt bother me like it used to. And in the process, its diminished to the point where its a non issue.
Does this apply to you? Maybe. Here are some things that used to apply to me greatly:
The irony is in the desperation to be pain free, your desperation maintains it.
Here's a great quote for which I have no source:
You are not miserable because you are in pain. You are in pain because you are miserable.
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Edited by - HellNY on 01/28/2010 22:51:06 |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 23:22:31
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Hi Ghopkins
Sorry to hear you're in such pain at the moment for I've been there too for a long time before becoming pain free and able to do what ever I want with my back . Unfortunately you've reached the point where something must be done .
I wish I could tell you which is best but nobody can do that for you because it's not as simple as that. There are many different factors to take into consideration some of which are out of a person's expertise and in the hands of an other. you're going to have to make an informed decision. it's a little bit like shopping for the best price versus quality .
The solutions lay in the details of your options and in how much time you have. Fortunately there seems to be several options left for you to choose from ...
First you need to find out if what ever you were told can be dangerous if you don't act upon it in time and what the danger is and discuss that with knowledgeable people then find out is it is reversible and what your chances are to walk again normally. when talking to physicians or specialists you can also ask for their success rate and patients feed backs.
if you're not satisfied with any of the answers you get seek a second or third opinion. This will lower the fear to an acceptable level allowing you to proceed with the rest of the decision you must make. Something as simple as making a list of pros and cons as you learn more can help you clear your mind about how you'll proceed. If you get to talk to Dr Sarno himself you'll get to hear what he has to say w/o interpretation.
Why should it be one or the other anyway? Is there only one solution to fix the ruptured disk? you may be able to combine both an operation or let the ruptured disk heal by itself and do the tms 'treatment' to put the maximum chances on your side to get better for what good would it be to have an operation and have your tense muscles screw up the job later as you're trying to recover.
In fact you can start with a TMS approach for the purpose of lowering the tension in the area of the ruptured disk and to ease the fear and boost your chances for recovery. Anxiety can be addressed simultaneously for the same purpose. Being pro active about your problem will reduce the fear that is in your way at the moment.
Believe it is possible to solve your problem. Tremendous things happen to believers.
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Edited by - catspine on 01/29/2010 02:37:40 |
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francisair
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 11:08:51
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Hi,
I have had two microdiscetomy surgeries for a ruptured disc. First in 01 at L4/L5 and the second Oct 1st 2009 for L5/S1. The first surgery was amazing and brought relief from the "leg pain". I felt great two days after surgery. I had been introduced to Dr Sarno in 1995 I forgot about it. Occassional episodes with back pain in the following years were managed with the usual techniques, often effectivelly but never sustaining. I "know" that my ignorance of my minds thinking created what I now know to be TMS symptons periodically between 01 and last year. I believe that tms undiagnosed led to the conditions that untimately ruputured my disc last August. I was practically paralyized for two months unable to walk or even lie down confortably. Surgery took that away. Quite honestly I personally am glad that I did it.
1 month after surgery I was still having moderate to sometimes severe sciatica. Somehow I stumbled onto Sarno again and have been trying so hard to believe solely in the TMS being the total cause of my pain. I was doing really good up until two weeks ago and now I'm in pain again. I know this is due to TMS as I see where I sabotaged some things and created unnecessary stress. It's the cunning way TMS works. It's like alcoholism. Cunning baffling and very powerful. It slides in the back door unnoticed and we make decisions based on it's insane ideas and thoughts.
I'm not sure what I would have done if I'd been aware of Sarno and TMS last August when the pain and all was oh a 20! I'm having a hard enough time dealing with it from the place I'm at today which the pain level isn't really anymore than say a three possibly four. I'm kind of with catspine on this but that's just because of my personal experience. I can only say with conviction is that if you do have surgery do not forget what really was the true cause of it getting so bad...TMS. Your back problems will resurface if you do.
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HellNY
130 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 11:51:40
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Francisair -
I woudl say my experience was exactly like yours. Had the surgery. Had this amazing relief of leg pain right after. Only to have teh same thing return a few months later.
I convinced myself that teh surgery did help me. But at the same time, it seemed to help only temporarily.
Followed with another surgery to "fix" what was "missed." \
That was a disaster. I got much worse. Yes, I was made worse follwoing the surgery.
Eventually had my whole l5/s1 replaced with an artificial disk. The whole disk removed!!!
Leg pain went away...no...it it was back again, only now in a new dermatomal pattern (l4/5), It used to be circumscribed l5/s1.
I was on high levels of meds for years and in pain. Now I have use no meds and am in less pain than every before.
No more surgeries required.
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francisair
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 21:51:04
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HellNy,
To help ghopkins... Do you think that if you had known about Sarno after the first surgery could you have circumvented any future pain by adhering to Sarnos advice? I guess I'm just awed at people who can get through the pain of a ruptured disc without anything other than pain killers and sarnos belief as a model for recovery. |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2010 : 05:53:12
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Thank you. Where can I learn the TMS approach in order to lower tension? I thought that was what Dr. Sarno teaches as part of the $1,000 consultation? Boy, am I confused. :o(
quote:
Originally posted by catspine
Hi Ghopkins
Sorry to hear you're in such pain at the moment for I've been there too for a long time before becoming pain free and able to do what ever I want with my back . Unfortunately you've reached the point where something must be done .
I wish I could tell you which is best but nobody can do that for you because it's not as simple as that. There are many different factors to take into consideration some of which are out of a person's expertise and in the hands of an other. you're going to have to make an informed decision. it's a little bit like shopping for the best price versus quality .
The solutions lay in the details of your options and in how much time you have. Fortunately there seems to be several options left for you to choose from ...
First you need to find out if what ever you were told can be dangerous if you don't act upon it in time and what the danger is and discuss that with knowledgeable people then find out is it is reversible and what your chances are to walk again normally. when talking to physicians or specialists you can also ask for their success rate and patients feed backs.
if you're not satisfied with any of the answers you get seek a second or third opinion. This will lower the fear to an acceptable level allowing you to proceed with the rest of the decision you must make. Something as simple as making a list of pros and cons as you learn more can help you clear your mind about how you'll proceed. If you get to talk to Dr Sarno himself you'll get to hear what he has to say w/o interpretation.
Why should it be one or the other anyway? Is there only one solution to fix the ruptured disk? you may be able to combine both an operation or let the ruptured disk heal by itself and do the tms 'treatment' to put the maximum chances on your side to get better for what good would it be to have an operation and have your tense muscles screw up the job later as you're trying to recover.
In fact you can start with a TMS approach for the purpose of lowering the tension in the area of the ruptured disk and to ease the fear and boost your chances for recovery. Anxiety can be addressed simultaneously for the same purpose. Being pro active about your problem will reduce the fear that is in your way at the moment.
Believe it is possible to solve your problem. Tremendous things happen to believers.
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HellNY
130 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2010 : 06:33:13
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quote:
Originally posted by francisair
HellNy,
To help ghopkins... Do you think that if you had known about Sarno after the first surgery could you have circumvented any future pain by adhering to Sarnos advice? I guess I'm just awed at people who can get through the pain of a ruptured disc without anything other than pain killers and sarnos belief as a model for recovery.
Well, first Im not sure the premise of your question is necessarily correct. That is, "the pain of a herniated disk." I dont think its that simple. I think our tension prone personalities lead to tense bodies and tense physical habits. OUr tension gets expressed in multiple areas of our bodies. I think, for example, your lower back - inlcuding the INvoluntary muscles in your lower back -- can be under a chornci and involuntary state of tension which makes it a difficult environment for the nerves to begin with. Maybe that aided in the development of a herniated disk maybe it would have occurred on its own. But the "pain of the herniated disk" is to me more "the pain of incredible somatic tension in the lower back and areas where the disks and nerves are." You can get the disk operated on, which also includes a massive dose of pain meds right after the surgery and also a belief (placebo) that you have "been fixed." But those both wear off, and the pain returns ion some way shape or form as long as you remain uptight and fearful.
Now, Sarnos says it is "distraction" and uses Freudian theory as a model to explain the process. I think of it more as a metaphor. I dont believe in distraction theory. But it doesnt matter. The common path to getting better is that you stop believing your pain is due to a herniated disk and recognize its part of a psychological process. This belief change leads to less anxiety and tension, which leads to somewhat greater relaxation, which reduces the pain maybe 10% at first. But that 10% reduction may lead to even less anxiety, whcih in turn leads to less tesion, which leads to less pain. And teh cycle unravels.
The literature on teh recovery of "pain from a herniated disk" actually shows that patients thathave surgery recover no better or almost no better than patients WITH surgery. That should really call the herniated disk theory into question.
Dopnt take my word for it. Look at the literature. Not the small studies with a few patients but the large comprehensive papeers that combine data from very large trials.
I think we all need to do what we think is best. But if you have teh surgery and your pain either doesnt go away -- or if it goes away and then returns, you need to really think about why. |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2010 : 06:54:28
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Hi ghopkins,
It sounds like you're very confused about the TMS theory, which is understandable if you're new to it.
I'd like to ask you whether you've read any of Dr Sarno's books yet? If not, then I suggest you do that as soon as possible and certainly before your appointment with Dr Sarno, in order to get a better understanding of the theory.
As others have said here, we can't decide for you what is the best option, but if you see Dr Sarno you'll have more information as a basis for making up your mind.
All the best,
Hilary N |
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francisair
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2010 : 08:22:45
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Ghopkins
HELLNY is right. I'm a recovering alcoholic and I never really understood that If I take that first drink that I had no control after that. I had to believe in the obsession of the mind to be truly able to get sober. The first drink creates a reaction in the alcoholic brain that stops any rational behavior. I had to believe fully in the first drink gets me drunk or I would never recover. Same with TMS. The first thought that structual abnormality is responsible will only continue the pain.
I have to fully believe without reservation that the pain is being caused by TMS and that believeing that is the only way that the brain will stop manifesting TMS and cause it's misery. I have to not think but know that and so I believe what HELLNY says can stop the pain cycle. I know that fear and anxiety just create more tension and perpetuate the pain cycle. Maybe get something to alleviate the anxiety so you can be more present with the process. Just a thought. |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2010 : 09:29:04
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Thank you for your kind reply. The only book I have read by Dr. Sarno, may be why I'm confused. The title is "Mind Over Back Pain". I found out this morning that this book is old and out-dated. It was suggested I locate "Healing Back Pain: The Mind-Body Connection" by John E. Sarno, and "The Mindbody Prescription: Healing the Body, Healing the Pain" by John E. Sarno. I'm not sure these are my best bet, but going on a little faith, I reserved them both and a local B&N book store and my wife just left to pick them up. I did do a little sample reading on Amazon, and both books appear to be much better than the one I read. They both have great reader reviews and one sample spoke directly to my injury, worries, guilt, financial failure, etc.
Thank you so much for your help. I hope I chose two books that will help me better understand.
-Greg
quote:
Originally posted by HilaryN
Hi ghopkins,
It sounds like you're very confused about the TMS theory, which is understandable if you're new to it.
I'd like to ask you whether you've read any of Dr Sarno's books yet? If not, then I suggest you do that as soon as possible and certainly before your appointment with Dr Sarno, in order to get a better understanding of the theory.
As others have said here, we can't decide for you what is the best option, but if you see Dr Sarno you'll have more information as a basis for making up your mind.
All the best,
Hilary N
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2010 : 14:42:37
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quote:
Thank you. Where can I learn the TMS approach in order to lower tension? I thought that was what Dr. Sarno teaches as part of the $1,000 consultation? Boy, am I confused. :o(
Sorry ghopkins I overlooked the fact that you were new to this and went forward too fast maybe.
TMS is confusing enough to begin with I hope the other answers you got on this thread gave you a better understanding of what you're dealing with . We all have our own methods of dealing with the syndrome and symptoms of it and so will you after a while but the basics remains the same in theory . I did not realize that you never read Dr Sarno's books before joining the forum but I saw today that you sent for them. You may want to read these first and go over the posts again especially if you're confused or doubt what you're learning. Understanding comes with time and it is particularly true for TMS. |
Edited by - catspine on 01/30/2010 14:50:11 |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2010 : 19:05:27
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quote:
Originally posted by catspine
quote:
Thank you. Where can I learn the TMS approach in order to lower tension? I thought that was what Dr. Sarno teaches as part of the $1,000 consultation? Boy, am I confused. :o(
Sorry ghopkins I overlooked the fact that you were new to this and went forward too fast maybe.
Please, call me Greg. My wife picked up the two books today. I just started "Healing Back Pain". Yes, I'm very new. I also over analyze everything. I am very, very grateful to have been lead to these books and forum. The success stories give me some hope that there may be an alternative to surgery. I did not get a good feeling or confidence from speaking with the surgeons. They seem to just want to cut and collect. I know that sounds harsh, but that is what my gut was telling me. I guess that is why I have been struggling to learn more about Dr. Sarno. I have this feeling that I have failed my family and lost many of my dreams. If I can find a way to deal with the pain of my disc and the pain of my self created tensions, stress, and self-blame I'm betting Dr. Sarno might know the way. A dear friend says he was once exactly where I am and Dr. Sarno saved his life.
Thank you for caring enough to write to me and for understanding my clueless search for answers.
-Greg |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 15:16:58
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Hi Greg,
It sounds to me like you have a very sensible gut! 
Happy reading!
Hilary N |
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Capn Spanky
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 11:55:37
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For what it's worth, ghopkins... I am completely free of back pain thanks to Dr. Sarno. It's really incredible, when I think about it.
I had really bad sciatica for about 20 years. I was diagnosed with a degenerated disk (L5). I had to crawl every morning when I got out of bed and could not stand up until I did 40 minutes of stretching. Took TONS of Ibuprofen. I couldn't stand or walk for more than 15 minutes without having a bad pain episode. My life was extremely limited and revolved around my pain.
I tried just about everything, except surgery and that was next on my list.
It took awhile to get completely pain free after discovering Dr. Sarno. Maybe 5 or 6 months, although I had some relief quickly. Now I have no limitations due to my back. I can stand, walk, run, lift weights, do whatever I want. |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 13:31:35
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It's worth a lot! If I get can accepted and get in to see Dr. Sarno, I will be spending my last paycheck to see him. I can't earn anymore as I am, so it's my only hope of fulfilling even a small portion of the commitment I made to my wife and kids. Thank you for the success story. I really needed that. God Bless You!
All my best to you,
Greg
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Spanky
For what it's worth, ghopkins... I am completely free of back pain thanks to Dr. Sarno. It's really incredible, when I think about it.
I had really bad sciatica for about 20 years. I was diagnosed with a degenerated disk (L5). I had to crawl every morning when I got out of bed and could not stand up until I did 40 minutes of stretching. Took TONS of Ibuprofen. I couldn't stand or walk for more than 15 minutes without having a bad pain episode. My life was extremely limited and revolved around my pain.
I tried just about everything, except surgery and that was next on my list.
It took awhile to get completely pain free after discovering Dr. Sarno. Maybe 5 or 6 months, although I had some relief quickly. Now I have no limitations due to my back. I can stand, walk, run, lift weights, do whatever I want.
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Edited by - ghopkins on 02/01/2010 13:45:54 |
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koukla
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 17:34:25
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Hi Greg,
I didn't have back pain myself, but I had pain in my hands and arms and I had a recovery about two years ago. It was very dramatic. I went from literally doing almost nothing with my hands and being in constant fear of movement, to snapping my fingers and working with clay and pumping my own gas. I was literally jumping for joy with excitement.
Now, two years later, I am having a bit of a relapse. I am going through another stressful time in my life and I probably did the wrong thing by not doing journaling, etc so it crept back up on me. I am doing okay though. I know in the back of my mind that this will pass and I'm not taking pain meds or "resting" or any of the things that I depended on. One thing which encourages me is that my family is very supportive. After they saw what happened before, they are fully on board with the mindbody approach. And I come from a very educated family as well.
When I was in the middle of my pain cycle, I remember being so obsessed with it that I could literally not pull my mind away from it. I'm sure you can relate and I please do not give up hope because you can definitely beat this thing. |
Edited by - koukla on 02/01/2010 17:36:19 |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 18:12:18
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Greg,
You often mention your family and how you think you failed them , well maybe you did maybe not . What I can see through this is a pattern of guilt which is a big anger generator aimed at yourself. That which angers you has control over you.
You may want to consider this part while you're reading more about TMS.
Chances are that if you over analyze everything the TMS treatment will work really well for you: it will just make perfect sense.
Try to give yourself a break for now, once you recover you'll have more than one opportunity to make up for "what went wrong" if that's what you wish to do and you'll be fine. In the mean time reading Dr'Sarno will provide enough to be patient with yourself.
Don't worry about what other people think for now, you're alright and we are not here to judge you anyway. |
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Capn Spanky
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 18:31:31
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quote:
Originally posted by ghopkins
It's worth a lot! If I get can accepted and get in to see Dr. Sarno, I will be spending my last paycheck to see him. I can't earn anymore as I am, so it's my only hope of fulfilling even a small portion of the commitment I made to my wife and kids. Thank you for the success story. I really needed that. God Bless You!
All my best to you,
Greg
I'm very touched by you response, Greg! 
One thing that helped me a great deal was a sincere belief that the pain was really caused by my mind and a strong faith that this approach would work for me. Like I said, it took some time.... but it did work. By-the-way, I've never visited Dr. Sarno. I'm one of those book cures.
You sound like you absolutely have the right attitude. All my best to you!! |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 21:11:43
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Thank you very much! I appreciate your understanding and help in keeping things in perspective.
quote:
Originally posted by catspine
Greg,
You often mention your family and how you think you failed them , well maybe you did maybe not . What I can see through this is a pattern of guilt which is a big anger generator aimed at yourself. That which angers you has control over you.
You may want to consider this part while you're reading more about TMS.
Chances are that if you over analyze everything the TMS treatment will work really well for you: it will just make perfect sense.
Try to give yourself a break for now, once you recover you'll have more than one opportunity to make up for "what went wrong" if that's what you wish to do and you'll be fine. In the mean time reading Dr'Sarno will provide enough to be patient with yourself.
Don't worry about what other people think for now, you're alright and we are not here to judge you anyway.
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Completely Pain Free? Are You Really?
