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JoeC
USA
17 Posts |
 Posted - 12/10/2004 : 02:10:25
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Healthboards.com is a large message board site with dozens of categories. I am not certain, but I think it is the largest on the web. There is a section titled "back problems", and it is the biggest one - tens of thousands of posts.
You have never seen such a cauldron of deluded thinking in one place! Post after post about "herniations" and "bulges" and sciatica and on and on. Many have had numerous operations, procedures, therapies, etc. and just keep going down hill year after year. Some put what looks like their back "resume" on the bottom of their posts.
1994 - laminectomy
1996 - IDET
1996 - IDET failed
1998 - re-herniated the re-hernaition, in bed 12 weeks...
1998 - Second IDET
1999 - Second fusion failed
2004 - Artificial disc operation in February - wish me luck!
etc.
This place is like anti-TMS land, and I believe it could be poisonous if someone is still getting a handle on their TMS. But if any veterans want a post a message about Sarno there, it would reach many back sufferers. Sarno posts are very rare but get flamed pretty bad there, but not by everyone.
If someone posted and maybe a few others supported that post - or rebutted the reactionary posts that will almost certainly follow, perhaps some good will be done. I know that some look askance at evangelizing, but it feels right to spread the word at least in a case like this, when a few posts will target thousands who need help.
If someone posts, I will follow up. Just tell us about it here and I will support the post. I feel others here are more qualified to start it off. Then again, I suppose "Has anyone heard of Dr. Sarno?" would suffice. I don't want to start it unless others here will follow it or else it will get flamed and people will actually be turned away. Expect a reply like "Yea, he's that nut that says it's "all in your head""...
Of course, you can also mention this message board as well. I am so impressed by some of the brilliant minds here, think others should have access.
Joe
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pault
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 04:50:36
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| Their high degree of success tells it all!We will give it a try when time permits. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 06:51:11
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quote:
But if any veterans want a post a message about Sarno there, it would reach many back sufferers...If someone posted and maybe a few others supported that post - or rebutted the reactionary posts that will almost certainly follow, perhaps some good will be done.
This is a nice thought but most likely it is fantasy.
If you think about the reasons TMS exists, you will understand that these people need the distraction that their "physical" back problems provide. They would be lost in this world without them. The repeated surgeries, chronic pain, MRIs and multitude of (mis)diagnoses is a part of who they are. It has been woven into their personality.
Most of these types of people are insulted by the mention of Dr. Sarno because it invalidates a part of their being. They are unable and unwilling to accept that their pain is "in their heads." (Although we know the explanation is far more complicated, they will never comprehend the details because they won't open their minds.)
So unless you enjoy being insulted and frustrated, I would recommend not posting about Sarno on those boards. And TMS "rookies" should surely stay away, or risk having additional seeds of doubt planted in their minds. |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 07:59:16
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Well. that's funny you should bring that up. I used to visit that site pre-Sarno, to get answers. I'm really glad I found that site. I was contemplating having surgery about a year ago, but thanks to the people and theit success with surgeries on that site, I hung my idea of surgery out the window. One good thing came from that site though, a man that used to post on there came back and said he read a book called Healing Back Pain by Sarno. The next day I picked it up from the library read it, then bought it and the Mindbody Prescription. I knew that was my cure, still working at it, but will not give up.
On the old message board I had posted that I went back to the message board and posted about Sarno. Well on healthboards they deleted my post and the one where the guy came back and said it cured him. I'm so grateful that I read his post before it was deleted. But after they erased it, I posted another post about Sarno and they kicked me off the board. But anyone who is a memeber still, I encourage you to do it, even if they erase it, maybe someone could get a glimpse in time and be introduced into something wonderful.
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 08:26:00
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May I say these are excellent Quotes
, It only reinforces how easy one can be programmed into a specific pattern of thinking as well as prescribing to a one-sided methodology that is not open to treat the body as a whole.
M-B-S connection.
Watch what you believe in
To really se how powerful programming might effect ones views, values and reasoning, look at what might cause someone to strap a bomb on their body sacrificing themselves to destroy many, or fly a jet plane into a buildings, bringing more devastation.
quote:
multitude of (mis)diagnoses is a part of who they are. It has been woven into their personality.
Most of these types of people are insulted by the mention of Dr. Sarno because it invalidates a part of their being
the explanation is far more complicated, they will never comprehend the details because they won't open their minds.)
quote:
So unless you enjoy being insulted and frustrated, I would recommend not posting about Sarno on those boards. And TMS "rookies" should surely stay away, or risk having additional seeds of doubt planted in their minds
Awesome quote
And don’t forget to be careful in what you expose your self to, especially while in the healing process, it only limits yourself for your own Hope in Recovery.
One added point that I had learned through my own recovery, we need to also lean how to think out side the box. Or we become limited to our own patern of thinking.
I really hope you understand?
What I mean by this after being exposed to Dr sarno’s work and applying his methodology, I started to look at ALL things in my life, ONLY through the eyes of TMS. And lost focus on my real purpose, including everything else around me in my own environment.
Always Hope For Recovery
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Louise
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 11:33:20
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Before I found out about Dr. Sarno, I used to visit the Back Pain message board of the WebMD site. Dear God, it was so depressing. People would sign in every day and chronicle their current pain/drug/disability situation. It was like a club for people in misery. I went back and posted a couple of times about Sarno, but was met with such derision and vitrol it was sad. My last post was deleted, with the explanation that I could not mention a specific doctor's name.
We're goodists. We have found something that has helped us, and we want to help others. But, we have to realize that the vast majority of people out there want to have someone fix them. Fix their lives. Fix their backs. Fix their pain. They don't want to take responsibility for fixing themselves. At this point, if I'm speaking with someone who has pain that I think might be TMS, I mention that I've read this book that helped me. If they show interest, I give them the name. If not, I drop it. My best friend has had 2 surgeries for RSI's and will probably have a knee surgery in the near future. She tells me that her pain is real. I've tried to explain that I never said that her or my pain wasn't REAL - it's just that I think that the CAUSE of my pain isn't injury or inflammation or whatever. But she only hears that I'm saying that the pain is all in her mind. So, in the interest of friendship, we don't talk about it. It's like talking about religion with the evangelical - they won't listen to anything other than what they believe. |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 11:45:13
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A couple months ago I provided information on Sarno and Sopher to a fellow runner who was suffering. I hadn't heard from him, so I emailed him and today I received a response:
Good to hear from you. I am still fighting my injury. Going to doctor again Monday. In my case I really have an injury. The CD's came in handy and I bought the books (all 3). I have already loaned to a gentleman I work with. How are you?
I can only hope that he will soon tire of making the doctor office rounds and crack open the books one more time. At least I've planted the seed and he must have taken something from the books, since he loaned them to someone else! |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 16:42:18
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Joe.
I posted a "sarno" post there on the addiction page (I've struggled with dope my whole life..not pain related)
A lot of the addicts are addicted because of pain.(I was addicted because of pain too...just a different sort)
I was tired of hearing there futility laced whining,so I started a post where I explained Sarno,and offered a challenge that I always do to anyone....if you by the book ,read it,and don't get better,I'll buy it from you for Twice the cover price +postage...
some woman got really mad and accused me of having some sort of financial interest in Sarno's book sales(LOL!)
Anyways,the moderator Locked the string so it could not be posted in anymore.....boy they have it in for Sarno.
I was warned that I would be banned permanently if I ever posted "inflammatory" stuff...I think I'll take you up on the offer and go throw a bomb on the pain Board.....My username is Koufax63
People are always certain that their pain is "Real" and whatever I had wasn't as bad.
I also don't subscribe to their "rah rah team spirit" approach to drug addiction,...it's somethin I'm over...not a disease,not a lifelong death sentence...so I pretty much never participaye there anymore except to check in with old friends
Good Idea.
Baseball65 |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 18:32:36
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great post. there's another site called http://www.spine-health.com. same deal...they have a message board there and it's alsmost all failed surgery stories...and it's the most depressing thing on earth. funny enough, this site does have a pretty good, objective summary of Sarno, but no one talks about it.
i've tried floating Sarno on a couple boards, and as you say, it was serious flame bait. i don't bother anymore. it's one thing to recommend Sarno to a close friend, but i don't bother turning strangers on to it.
moose |
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JoeC
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 23:04:09
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Thanks for responding. I rather agree with all of you, even though that seems contradictory. I don't think we should spend too much time on this, but maybe once or twice a year put something up for the few that are receptive.
The difference between the occasional Sarno post and what we can do is this: In the past individual posts got buried with negative posts; but if several people with different screen names support a post, in really may impress a few folks, and it will make the super negative posters look a bit hysterical. But I agree, it will only help a few. And I also agree, rookies stay away as that stuff is really toxic gargbage you don't want to be breathing in (the responses to our post will probably be the most toxic of all!)
I will look for Basball65's Kaufax63 post. If anyone else sees it, please think about registering and supporing his post. I will also check the site cited by Moose1. Perhaps posters should not make it obvious in the subject line that it is a Sarno post - so it doesn't get pulled as fast. If not, tell us title so we can support it (and/or your screen name).
Joe |
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JoeC
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 23:43:21
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Guys and Gals:
I just posted a pro-Sarno message on Healthboards.com in the message section under "back problems". My user name is RealIcon and the subject is "very helpful" (I didn't want to make it obvious it was about Sarno). Please support the post if you can! Heck, let's help save a few people for the Holidays! Don't leave me hanging there!
Thanks,
Joe
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 09:09:12
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quote:
Originally posted by JoeC
Thanks for responding. I rather agree with all of you, even though that seems contradictory. I don't think we should spend too much time on this, but maybe once or twice a year put something up for the few that are receptive.
Keep in mind that your desire to help others is a part of your personality that makes you susceptible to TMS.
It is of course nice to try to help others, but sometimes that can be a distraction from helping yourself.
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 09:56:31
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Hi Joe.
I must have been ..uhh...discontinued??
I logged in as a new member since my old password didn't work.I hadn't ever been on that board before!!
Holy Moly..what an ocean of futility we were rescued from!
I read that first "sticky" post about what to do after surgery(sheesh..what a laundry list) and saw the "credentials" at the bottom of every post that you had mentioned.
I was overwhelmed...emotionally...at all the pain,all the emptiness...I read a post by a guy who sounded EXACTLY like I did...father,sole bread winner,60-70 hr work week,fearing..stairs!!!
He's having surgery in January...a fusion.I read the responses and everyone just reaffirmed the mythology...all we would do is further antagonize someone like that.
I lived on the second floor when I had my "incident" and I forgot how obsessed one becomes with the smallest of details.
I forgot how each and every new doctor gave me a new diagnosis...more fuel for the fire of fear and conditioning.
I don't know if we're going to help anybody,but that was all I could stand....it was like watching the titanic sink,all the people screaming and crying and dying stoically and otherwise...and all the time they were in 5 feet of water.
well...at least it was therapeutic for me...
I have something else to add to my list of things to be grateful for in prayer.
peace
Baseball65 |
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molomaf
119 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 15:27:44
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| I just posted on the site as well. I just can't help being a goodist! |
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JoeC
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 16:33:12
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Madams (hmmm, that doesn't sound right) and Sirs:
I went to site and someone is getting Sarno's book already. Several of us posted there and it looks great. The positve accounts all in a row make it somewhat flame-resistant (probably not flame-proof; I am sure there will be negativity). 88 people read so far.
I am not that much of the do-gooder type, by the way. But this, is to me, a "help them help themselves" type of thing. I am not exactly quitting my job and handing out fliers on the corner
If we can get a few more posts on there, I think that's enough. For the minority on that board who are open minded, how can one discount out of hand 6 or 7 people telling you they have found a cure? Perhaps we never have to post there again in order to get a continued effect. Hopefully the exposure will have a ripple effect. But seriously, this may be the first time a Sarno post is filled with Sarno defenders, and so it really may have an positive effect.
Again, this is a side issue to this website, whose main purpose is the insightful, intelligent and generous (and humorous!) posts I find here everyday. So thanks for pitching in and "now we return you to your regularly scheduled broadcast..."
Joe
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 16:37:34
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| lot's of people talking about "looking forward" to their spinal fusion surgery on that and other boards, too. how distorted is that thinking? do they understand that they going to have bone removed from their hip and then have their vertabrea soldered together with it? how can that possbilble cure pain??? |
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Hestia
21 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 18:56:46
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| I found out about Dr. Sarno and his books on a similar board. Someone had posted about him on the heel spur boards. It was not overly well received but I am very thankful that someone took the time to post about it there. It was the right time for me to hear about it. I have been doing really well for the past 3-4 months, after 17 months of plantar fasciitis. So even if no one posts about it, you just never know who your post may reach and help. |
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Logan
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 16:02:54
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| Put me on the goodie-goodist list too. I couldn't resist adding my post to that thread. I figure, it might just help someone just like I was helped by a post on another, totally unrelated message board. It took me a couple of years after reading that post to give Sarno a real open-minded try but if it hadn't been for that person's recommendation, I might not have given Sarno the later serious thought that I did... |
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Irish Jimmy
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 18:33:16
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I went to the healthboards site. I tried to go to the very helpful thread on the back problems page. I was interested in what some of you wrote, but the thread was locked? Are our views that unwelcomed?
I looked at other topics and posts on the site. Nothing but misery, and we know misery loves company and heavy drinkers. Thank god I didn't know about these types of sites when I was in pain, it would have made it worst. When I would read articles in magazines and books about a current "condition" I had, I always felt worst. But good try gang; hopefully someone will pick up on TMS.
P.S. This year my brother who first told me about Sarno, is getting an extra big Christmas present. 2004 has been great as far as health and exercise, Good Luck. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 19:04:10
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Hey Joe and everybody
THEY ACTUALLY REMOVED THE WHOLE STRING!!!
I had a string I started on Sarno locked before....someone at healthboards has it in for sarno.
Anyways,Joe ..you broke one of their rules when you used our forums URL...I got in trouble for that once too.You can't post any links that end in .com ...only .edu and .org
Maybe if you try again...but for now,the entire string is gone!!
marc
Baseball65 |
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floridaboy
40 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 21:48:37
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Below is a string I started...we'll see if it gets me kicked off or deleted. I was very careful to play by the rules. I think it is compeling anyway!
Here it is>>>
I know most of you will hate me for posting this...before you go bananas and flame me...just stop for a second and listen.
Did you know in many countries whiplash/neck pain is nearly an epidmic...but in underdeveleoped countries like Lithuania there is almost no incidence of it?
Did you know that most people in this country with chronic back pain are in their 30's, 40's and 50's...some older some younger..but most in that age group?
Why isn't back pain and "old persons" problem?
Did you know 100 years ago in this country Back pain didn't exist at all like today?
Did you know in the secretary pools during WWII, 1000's of women typed on old mechanical type-writers, 60-70 words per minute, day in and out for years, and NO ONE had carpal tunnel?
Did you know in latin american they have almost no incidence of carpal tunnel (YES THEY USE COMPUTERS THERE!)?
Did you know there is almost NO back pain in developing/emerging economy countries?
Did you that your mind controls blood flow without you "having a say about it"?
Did you know that when nerves, ligaments and muscles are deprived of oxygen it is considered one of the most painful experiences known to man kind (anyone ever have a leg cramp?...heart attack?)
Did you know that on the MRI's of 100 completely normal, pain free people...more than half have herniated discs, buldges, ruptures, curvatures, etc?
Did you know I flew fighter plans for the US Navy but was discharged medically with a 40% disability rating when my pain hit me?
Did you know that I couldn't drive a car, walk or sit for too long without pain?
Did you know my pain lasted 12 years before I go better?
Did you know that I ran a marathon 4 weeks ago and am running another in January?
Did you know I have NO financial interests in anything I am going to suggest?
Did you know I only want to help you people?
Did you know I am the father of 4 children and can play with them know like a normal Dad?
Did you know I can help my wife out around the house like a (hopefully) normal husband?
Did you know it took me MONTHS of hard work and effort to get better?
Read that again...MONTHS!
Did you know that EVERY skeptical/negative person who has ever embarked on this effort has failed?
Did you know that when you are skeptical of some new methods of healing, you have a very good chance of failing?
I ask you ONE question...if what I am going to suggest to you cost you literally NOTHING in the grand scheme of things...why would you poison your chances for recovery from back pain by being skeptical... if being skeptical only insured that the treatment would fail?
Did you know in addition, I also suffered from Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (yes I am typing this not dictating it), headaches, acne, patella femoral (sp?) syndrome, ankle and shin pain?
Have you heard of Tenion Myositis Syndrome?
Did you know I thought it was BS the first time I read it?
Did I tell you I ran a marathon a month ago?
Did you know my 6+ months of hard work was all spent reading, studying and reflecting on how I THINK and NOT on the physical structure or make up of my body?
I have read numerous books and have deeply studied the topic...I am living proof...go find everything you can on TMS, Tension Myosistis Syndrome, Mind Body Syndrome, Mind Body Prescription, Healing Back Pain, TMS Help Forum...
Did you know I really just want to help and think that many of you can be helped?
My pain was as real as yours. Don't get mad...flame me and tell me I do not understand. I do. Just open your mind...and read...read...and re-read....and when you are done...read some more. It costs nothing and literally tens of thousands have been cured. Don't pay any attention to the "miracle" talk. You will see a lot of the "read the book...got cured garbage in there"...maybe some people did...me? It was HARD work. Please...for your own sake...why poo poo and say it is BS?
One final question for you...Has anything you ever tried or any surgery you have had worked? If not why not? The answers are available to you. Just go read!
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Healthboards - not!
