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stefan
56 Posts |
 Posted - 01/17/2008 : 18:21:25
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I was just wondering what you think about taking medication to 'take the edge off'. In Mindbody medicine, Dr. Sarno says you need to give up pharmaceuticals before you can consider yourself 'cured'.
What about eating/not eating certain foods you are allergic to? I have read numerous success stories of individuals who now can eat foods they were allergic to. If I were to avoid them, wouldn't I be saying to my brain: I am letting you control my life?
Wouldn't that be the same as allowing pain to dictate whether you go to work today or stay home?
Ars Longa Vita Brevis |
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positivevibes
204 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2008 : 18:50:45
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I'm new here so forgive me if I break some rules by expressing my strong opinion on this. I have two daughters with peanut, tree nut, and legume allergies. They wear medic alert bracelets and carry epi-pens.
My older daughter (now age 14) began throwing up and breaking out in rashes from peanuts at age 18 months. Before that, she would mysteriously throw up sometimes after eating...now I know she was allergic to the green peas in the babyfood. As a toddler she loved tofu but then it began making her throat itch. That was when I realized that(DUH) tofu is made from soybeans, which are legumes.
Sorry, but you could NOT tell me that her food allergy is from a mind-body problem. She was younger than 18 months old when she had her first allergic reactions. Testing by an allergist confirmed that she is allergic to many legumes (peanuts and peas and soy are legumes) and several tree nuts. A few years ago she used a body lotion and developed a rash...guess what, it was made with Macadamia nut oil (we didn't realize). Over the years we've had her re-tested, hoping she'd outgrow it, but so far no luck. Her father WAS allergic to peanuts but outgrew his allergy.
I would be TERRIFIED for her to eat peanuts because she thought she could talk herself out of her allergies. Her younger sister has exactly the same allergies. It's GENETICS, not some mind-body thing. IMO, food allergies are different from hayfever. Some food allergies can be fatal and you have to be very careful. Go to the message board at peanutallergy.org and you'll see what I mean.
I think that YOUR decision to eat foods you are allergic to depends on WHAT you allergic to and how bad your previous reactions have been. Are we talking about a little itchy throat or potential anaphalyatic shock? If you've had bad reactions in the past, please do not do a food challenge when you are alone. Have a responsible friend or loved one with you who could call 911 if things got out of control.
I hope I didn't anger anyone by posting this. The peanut/nut/legume allergy strikes very close to home with me. I wish it wasn't part of my life but unfortunately I have to deal with it every day. |
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painintheneck
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 00:16:37
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Stefan,
IMHO...I say take the edge off!
I am having pain less and less often BUT on the days I do still have it, I will take something for it and it does help me. I can sit and let the cycle spin out of control until all I can do is obsess about how much pain I am in or I can get a little help for the pain and then be able to look at it more objectively so I can do the TMS work I need to for permanant and lasting healing. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 03:34:48
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Re the allergies - yes, there do seem to be different levels of allergies, and the kind positive vibes is describing are obviously no joke.
I agree about taking painkillers. I got over severe, life-threateningly painful TMJ by taking painkillers and insisting it was TMS. Now, I had to be careful not to overdo the ones with codeine, because that creates a whole new problem. Same with benzodiazepams and other kinds of mind-benders. But straight pain relief is just plain necessary at times.
Just before coming to this board, I was reading a letter from American spiritual teacher Joel Goldsmith (died in 1964). He and his students were into seeing the body as totally healed and not even using any names of illnesses, etc. - similar to Christian Science. They had tremendous success with healing impossible things, and in some ways were doing something a bit like us. Here is an excerpt from what he wrote about seeing doctors (because many of his followers were former Christian scientists who didn't think they should).
November 27, 1963
Dear Friend:
Do you have a doctor? If so, follow his instructions. Your husband is right if he gets the best medical help-and neither you nor he need to make any apologies or excuses to anyone else. I have learned in my long years of study that it is wiser to let the best human help be God's instrument, when we are already hypnotized with something.
We can kid ourselves and say, "It is nothingness." That is the tragedy of the metaphysical world. We are all trying to evolve higher, but it is a matter of grace and states of consciousness, and no one can walk on the water before his time. Therefore, I learned from inner resources that it would be wiser to take the best method right at the moment, get our peace of mind, and keep on pursuing.
etc. etc. Joel Goldsmith.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 00:10:54
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If you can not sleep, function, concentrate,live normally because of severe TMS pain. I would most definitely say it's ok. It's your body. Pain from TMS can be so excruciating that people can be driven to think of suicide just to get away from the pain, I know I did.
WHy suffer needlessly while you are learning how that the little evil thing works?? You're learning to heal, and if your new to TMS, the "purist" route may actually put extra pressure on you.
Someone who is "advanced" in Mind/body medicine is a different story. I haven't needed meds for over a year, but even I could one day have a serious relapse and go back to the drugs(which I hate).
When they say "you're not cured until you are off all drugs", I tend to agree. But that doesn't necessarily mean quit all cold turkey to be "considered working the mind/body method". It doesn't exclude you, it just means that it is possibly hindering progress and taking you longer to "get it".
DOn't be ashamed if you run for the drugs. Suffering extreme pain as I have in the past, I could NEVER tell someone to grin and bare it. It's not fair to tell that to another human suffering IMHO. SOrry but for me it goes against all principles of compassion, even if it may be a temporary fix.
Just don't get dependent on meds. That's a whole different ball of wax in the adverse. The GOAL is to get your pain down to the point where it doesn't register or where it's minimal and not a part of your hourly thoughts or ruminations. Until you get to that goal, you should give yourself permission to put yourself at ease if drugs do that.
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"It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment." Armchairlinguist(?) |
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 16:20:54
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quote:
Originally posted by la_kevin
If you can not sleep, function, concentrate,live normally because of severe TMS pain. I would most definitely say it's ok. It's your body. Pain from TMS can be so excruciating that people can be driven to think of suicide just to get away from the pain, I know I did.
WHy suffer needlessly while you are learning how that the little evil thing works?? You're learning to heal, and if your new to TMS, the "purist" route may actually put extra pressure on you.
Someone who is "advanced" in Mind/body medicine is a different story. I haven't needed meds for over a year, but even I could one day have a serious relapse and go back to the drugs(which I hate).
When they say "you're not cured until you are off all drugs", I tend to agree. But that doesn't necessarily mean quit all cold turkey to be "considered working the mind/body method". It doesn't exclude you, it just means that it is possibly hindering progress and taking you longer to "get it".
DOn't be ashamed if you run for the drugs. Suffering extreme pain as I have in the past, I could NEVER tell someone to grin and bare it. It's not fair to tell that to another human suffering IMHO. SOrry but for me it goes against all principles of compassion, even if it may be a temporary fix.
Just don't get dependent on meds. That's a whole different ball of wax in the adverse. The GOAL is to get your pain down to the point where it doesn't register or where it's minimal and not a part of your hourly thoughts or ruminations. Until you get to that goal, you should give yourself permission to put yourself at ease if drugs do that.
I agree with everything in this statement. |
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positivevibes
204 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 23:38:10
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As a beginner with TMS methods, I personally think it's OK to take a little Tylenol or Ibuprofen if it makes me more comfortable. I would rather not take anything if possible. But if being out of pain takes my mind off the fact that I've been in pain, then I think the drugs are a good thing...if it helps me enjoy my day or enjoy a task instead of concentrating on pain. I've had such a hellish depressing year with this back problem....I'm overjoyed that I'm starting to feel better.
I never took anything narcotic or addictive. You obviously have to be careful with those type of drugs. The strongest thing I've taken for any period of time was an RX anti-inflammatory (Mobic aka Meloxacam). Yesterday I took two Tylenol but today I took nothing at all. Tomorrow...I'll see how it goes. But in general I'm trying to get this TMS stuff down into my unconscious/subconscious so that my back pain will go away and I won't have to take any sort of pain killers. |
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Big Rob
32 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 01:39:12
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With OCD I take anti-depressants.
The behavioural therapy helped even more.
Things are never black and white (as any good CBT therapist will tell you)  |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 14:12:40
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I was in such horrible back/butt pain that Dr. Sarno did give me a prescrip painkiller. After a few days I realized I no longer needed it. Do what YOU feel you need to do to get you through.
Allergies. There are many books (see ones I've noted in Success Stories) that talk about allergies having emotional ties. But these things take time to work through so if I knew I had say, a cheese allergy, I wouldn't go eat cheese right away. I would work on clearing out some emotional trash I've carried for years and then give cheese a try some time later. Also key is the belief you can overcome it . Louise Hay says we get what we focus on.
It is likely we pick up our parents emotions before we are born (see books again), so babies can have allergies caused by emotions.
And perhaps things that are blamed on genetics are more our own conditioning? (books again) e.g. "my family has asthma so I will too." Actually some in my family do and I do not. Again, what are we focusing on?
The info is out there waiting to be read, and much of it is not new information! Need to keep an open mind though.
-Lori
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stefan
56 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 15:29:39
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That is very insightful Lori. Makes a lot of sense. Thank you for your reply.
Ars Longa Vita Brevis |
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qso
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 15:55:20
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I'd also like to amplify on Lori's point about genetics.
Since most of us on this forum left school there have been significant advances in genetics and a resulting misconception that genetics is black and white (as we were taught).
Notably, it is now accepted by mainstream science (because their own experiments show it), that the degree of manifestation of some genetic traits is affected by the gene's biochemical environment. The fact that drugs can modify some genetic effects is proof of that. We also know that some animals lay eggs for which the sex of the offspring is determined by something as simple as temperature.
This should not be that surprising because genes after all, are chemicals and nothing else. Their expression can be modified by the local biochemical environment in the body.
Now, we know that people who have recovered from TMS have made real biochemical changes in their body by using their brain.
The brain is in master control of the biochemistry of your entire body. The parameter boundaries for which this can happen is unknown-nobody on the planet yet understands the brain well enough to say for sure.
It therefore follows that *some* genetic expression can be modified by the brain via the biochemical environment, which we know is affected by all kinds of things including emotions.
I am not saying that that you can change your blue eyes to green simply by thinking - some gene expression is more robust than others.
Another misconception is that babies cannot be affected by this "mindbody" stuff. How can a baby have emotional baggage? The error is in the assumption that only adult emotions affect the biochemistry (the brain can alter biochemistry in many other ways including traumatic experiences). Also, as Lori pointed out, parents can pass-on biochemistry (which can in turn alter gene behavior)- we all now that children of drug addicts are already addicted at birth. |
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positivevibes
204 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 13:15:25
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I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree that food allergies can be cleared up with TMS therapy. A little itchy throat that may possibly be psychosomatic is one thing. But if a person has had a life-threatening anaphalyactic reaction to a food, they cannot wish it away or make it go away with psychotherapy. If a person has had severe life-threatening reactions to certain foods and they want to do a food challenge, it should be done at a doctor's office or a hospital. Otherwise, the person could die.
Babies can develop allergies because of emotions? Is that how you would explain my daugther throwing up and breaking out in a severe rash and having to be rushed to the hospital -- for no apparant reason when she was a toddler? Sorry, but I do not agree with your uninformed statement. She had several episodes of mystery vomiting and rashes -- seemingly totally out of the blue -- until I realized that the common link was green peas and peanuts (which are both legumes). Then we had her tested by an allergiest and there it was -- severe peanut allergy -- it was off the charts.
As I stated earlier, both of my daugthers are allergic to nuts and legumes. My older daughter began having symptoms as soon as we fed her these foods, around 18 months old. That IS genetics, pure and simple. At the time, I had never even heard of legume or nut allergies -- I was totally clueless about it. I had no idea what "being allergic to peanuts" meant. And her younger sister has exactly the same allergies, despite being bottle fed instead of breast fed (so there goes the theory that breast milk protects you from allergies, eh?!)
We figured out my older daughter's peanut/legume allergy shortly after my younger daugther was born. So naturally we didn't feed her any of those foods and she tested negative for the allergy at two years old. But then she accidently bit into a peanut butter cookie at a friend's house at age 5(she hated it and spit it out), but some of it got into her system. The next time she was tested, she was as allergic as her sister -- off the charts. The way food allergy works is: first your body has to get exposed to the allergen. You usually don't have a reaction the first time. The reaction happens AFTER the first exposure and may get worse with each subsequent exposure.
My husband hates nuts and is revolted by peanut butter. Until my daughter's diagnosis, we both thought it was just a preference ("he hates nuts"). Now we realize that he had a mild peanut allergy when growing up because he remembers having mystery vomiting when he was a child (good thing it wasn't severe, because his parents were clueless). He can eat peanuts now if they accidently get into his food and they only make his stomach feel a little queasy but nothing else. So he "grew out" of his allergies and I hope our daughters will follow in his footsteps and also grow out of theirs.
You have NO IDEA what it's like to have severe food allergies unless you have "walked the walk." Go to the supermarket and see how many products have "traces of peanuts" or are made with soy flour. It makes things extremely difficult. And, I want to add, there is no cure for it yet.
There are many stories about childern dying because of accidental exposure to foods. One that comes to mind is a boy who was severely allergic to milk and milk products. He ate french fries that contained a milk product (he had no idea they contained a milk product when he at them). He did not have his Epi-pen with him. He died. This is not urban mythology, it is truth.
So please people, be careful if you're dealing with food allergies, especially if you have ever had a life-threatening reaction in the past. I'm not talking about a little itchy throat. I'm talking about something much more serious. It is nothing to play around with. Maybe one day they'll develop a cure for it.
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Edited by - positivevibes on 01/23/2008 13:38:08 |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:54:49
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If you allergic to something like say SHELLFISH (Iodine content,etc.) and you proceed to eat shellfish....and you notice that the histamines in your body are surging to protect you against this "invader"....and you start to swell so much that you can't breath....and at the same time thinking "It's just a reaction to inner rage in my subconscious"....you are...a 100%...total...and illogical...complete...JACKASS. And maybe..just maybe..you deserve to die so that others with more sensible minds can take up the void in the gene pool.
But thats just my opinion.
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"It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment." Armchairlinguist(?) |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:55:56
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| this is funny |
Edited by - la_kevin on 01/23/2008 15:03:26 |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:57:23
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oh god i kept quoting myself LOL
sorry folks
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Edited by - la_kevin on 01/23/2008 15:02:51 |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:59:07
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| double post |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 15:00:32
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triple post?
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 15:01:41
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| quadruple post and a "hacking attempt" warning? |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 15:17:45
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No one in this thread has questioned the fact that food (and other) allergies do indeed exist and can be very dangerous.
There are those of us who have done a lot of mind/body research (yes, there is a lot of material available out there), not to mention having our own personal experiences. We have reasons for our beliefs, and in my case, conviction in what I believe.
This comes with the realization that there are other ways to view things. To which we are all entitled. As is clear in this thread.
-L
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qso
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 15:42:57
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Actually I have a nephew who, before the age of 1, nearly suffocated to death on several occassions due to his throat inflaming so much due to food allergies that he couldn't breathe. I saw it with my own eyes and it was very upsetting. I *do* undertsand what you are talking about. Of course nobody is suggesting to send a baby to TMS therapy. The point is to give you hope because the notion that something that is genetic is set in stone is scientifically out of date and plain wrong. You yourself, positivevibes used the phrase "grew out of (an allergy)". What does that mean exactly, within the old model of genetics?
The other thing that people need to understand to overcome their own TMS (not necessarily related to allergies) is the meaning of emotion in this context. It is a misconception that emotions are built from "living a life". Of course babies don't have to deal with office politics or meet deadlines or supress anger at the boss. Remember the last time you saw a baby handed over to a stranger? When was the last time you saw that level of fear and terror in an adult? Babies are *mainly* pure raw emotion. Emotions cause real biochemical changes in the body and in combination with genetics can produce complex effects that have not even yet been accessible to scientific investigation. And *every* baby (and that inlcudes you and me) had at least one traumatic experience: the birth, whether it was natural or c-section. Can you imagine what it must have been like for the newly developed brain to leave the cacoon and enter the world? Fortunately nature has protected us by sealing all that below our conscious level but it is there somewhere-otherwise we would be reliving it everyday and be complete wrecks (if we aren't already).
Anyway, the point is that the thing behind your eyes and between your ears has enourmous power, much of which has yet to be revealed. The people that you are referring to as "they" as in "hope they find a cure" have to look into all of these possibilities -they don't care what the potential recipients believe or don't believe, they will carry on with their work. Most will meet with failure but success will come when someone tries something that nobody else did because their preconceptions prevented them from designing the right experiment. History is littered with these examples, but still human nature remains the same. |
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elsfive
14 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 17:35:43
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| Regarding the food allergy question, there are two different types of food allergies. There are the true food allergies that positive vibes speaks of and there are a much less severe form that are actually better referred to as food sensitivities. I think that the people on the board who talk about overcoming food allergies are referring to food sensitivities. Food sensitivities can cause headaches, gastrointestinal problems, etc. and exacerbate IBS, not anaphylactic shock. It is likely that food sensitivities are TMS related but not true food allergies. I personally only developed food sensitivities after I also started having other TMS symptoms. |
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Is taking medication declaring defeat?
