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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
 Posted - 11/24/2007 : 07:48:02
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Brief story to share.
My partner is from out-of-state originally and since we have been together (6.75 years) has gone "home for the holidays." This year he decided he was spending the holidays in NJ with me and my family. This man saw me through the worst pain of my life late last year, through my Dr. Sarno visit, and subsequent amazing healing.
So, Wed morning he is telling me how he must've "pulled something" in his neck during weight lifting yesterday. Immediately suspicious, I asked "have you told your mother you are not going there for thanksgiving yet?" He had not. Gently I asked if pulling something in your neck could be similar to "throwing your back out". So he thought about it, but i could tell leaned toward the physical aspect.
So I left it at: if it still hurts in a few days you will know it is probably tms pain.
Later the same day it was massage time and I asked how was his neck. He told me the pain went away immediately after talking to his mother!!!
Pretty cool!!
-Lori |
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painintheneck
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2007 : 09:06:15
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| Oh yeah I believe it! I get sudden onset of pain or other symptoms when there is something I am dreading up and coming. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2007 : 09:45:39
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Lori-
That is a great story. But stories like that re TMS confuse me a bit.
Doesn't Sarno say that you must accept that it is psychological, not structural, before symptoms can resolve? It seems that your partner was still leaning toward the "physical aspect".
My interpretation of Sarno is that understanding and acceptance are key and one does not necessarily have to change the situation to effect a cure.
Is there a distinction between those whose symptoms resolve when they just don't have to do something they don't want to do? It seems to me that from a TMS standpoint, your partners's pain stemmed from a conflict between what he wanted to do- (not go to his parents for Thanksgiving?) and feeling as if he should go (guilt?). As a result, he dreaded telling his mother. By telling his mother, he faced the conversation, but did not acknowledge or address the repressed emotion behind "the dread". Reminds me of a kid that gets a stomach ache because he doesn't want to go to school, but then feels better when he gets to stay home.
As someone who has actually seen Sarno- do you think that what your partner had is TMS? If so, it seems that his symptoms should not have resolved without his understanding of "why" he dreaded calling his mother.
Hope you guys had a great holiday- it seems you did!
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2007 : 11:28:27
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Lidge,
he laughed when he realized it was tms pain and was relieved to have faced the fear of calling to tell of his plans to stay here in NJ. That was the cause of the pain; fear of telling her because he wasn't sure of her reaction. After he told her, the fear ended. Thus the pain went away.
Not sure what you find confusing?
For me, even after seeing Dr. Sarno, it was not only accepting the psychological causes, but I also had to journal to get the feelings out. That is when my pain started going away. Dr. Sarno has writing out your feelings in his treatment plan. Just accepting alone works for some; I wasn't one of them. And I'm pain-free!
Lidge, it appears you and I are quite opposite. I swing toward any (occasional) pain being emotionally-caused rather than physical. ANY pain I have had in the past year has gone away so I know I was TMSing. I am not one to run to the doctor. I address the emotional FIRST, and have had no need to address anything physical.
-L
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2007 : 12:27:10
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Lori-
I'm confused because you said that your partner, even after having it gently suggested that his pain was TMS, still leaned toward the physical explanation.
It was only AFTER making the phone call that his pain disappeared. There was no insight whatsover on his part prior to the disappearance of his symptoms. No dealing at all with the unconscious emotions (rage/anger) behind his dread. While he made the call and felt better, he never dealt with the WHY.
Simply put, acceptance of the "diagnosis" is seen as essential for a positive outcome (pg. 134 TDM). It seems your partner had a positive outcome despite leaning toward the physical (nonacceptance of the diagnosis).
Lori- I don't think we are opposite at all.
Like you, I went the physical route in the beginning as we all do. Perhaps I went longer than I should have but was told many more things than a herniated disc that kept me going in circles with the doctors. Having had good results with Sarno you NOW quite understandably look to emotional factors first.
I can tell you I never "ran" to doctors. I was dragged kicking and screaming by the endless pain. Prior to the debilitating pain, a team of wild horses couldn't have dragged me to one.
My questions really are an effort to understand why I am not making progress. So much emphasis is placed (especially) on this board with "repudiating the physical". I am working very hard on this.
Yet in your partner's case, it seems he was able to "lean toward the physical" yet still resolve his TMS pain.
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Edited by - lidge on 11/24/2007 12:31:37 |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2007 : 14:47:05
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Hi Lidge,
I'm glad to see you're still here--I was a little concerned, when I saw that you had deleted a recent post, that maybe you'd decided to leave us.
May I ask what it is you do to "repudiate the physical"? Your situation is interesting to me because I had complete recovery from some symptoms very quickly after reading The Divided Mindand finding the forum, more than a year ago, yet other (severe) symptoms remain and I feel certain that the reason I still have them is because I still find myself avoiding certain emotions over certain events in the past, as well as repressing emotions in a current situation.
There are times when some of the symptoms that went away try to come back, and I can make them go away again by reflecting on what's triggering me emotionally and telling myself I'm not going to let my mind bring back that symptom, which is what I think of as repudiating the physical. Is it that self-talk you're referring to, or something else?
I just wonder if your situation could be similar to mine, that there are emotions that are still difficult to find and acknowledge. They can be like an iceberg, in the sense that I become aware of them to some degree, but when I really make myself dig, the way a therapist might, by asking questions and looking for more connections, I realize there is a lot more underneath that I still feel unable to face just yet and haven't journaled about.
Regarding Lori's story, prior to learning about TMS I had many, many episodes of having a symptom disappear when an issue that was troubling me ended, so I was tying some of my symptoms to emotional triggers for close to 30 years before I discovered Sarno's theory and started thinking about the deeper causes of the surface emotions. I didn't get the impression when I read Dr. Sarno's book that deep insight was necessary in every situation; I felt he was saying that it can sometimes be enough to simply acknowledge that the pain comes from an emotional trigger, rather than a physical one. He recommends insight therapy for those who don't find that basic acknowledgment to be enough.
It must be a challenge to remain confident that you have TMS when you feel you're not really making progress, but it does seem likely, from all you had to say, that it is TMS. I'm glad to see you've had the courage to continue making an effort to deal with it as TMS. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2007 : 15:45:39
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I think that there are two situations here.
In one case, a particular symptom disappears because it was related to a particular issue or event which you resolve, and you no longer need a distraction from that, so the symptom goes away. I would think this is a bit like having butterflies in your stomach before an interview, which go away afterwards -- just with pain, rather than butterflies. This probably happens to a lot of people who are never debilitated by TMS pain -- who don't even, strictly speaking, have TMS in the chronic and severe sense -- but every so often get a stiff neck or a sore back when they are stressed.
More systematically, you resolve TMS by realizing that there is a connection between symptoms and emotions, rather than between symptoms and physical problems, and refusing to accept symptoms as distractions. Then you don't get symptoms in the first place most of the time, and when you do, they often resolve as in the first case. You pretty much have to do this if you have chronic pain because chronic TMS pain is related to a wholesale buildup of repressed emotions that can't be expelled just by resolving one event or issue.
However, I do think that over time you can discharge the issues that create chronic TMS in the same way that you can discharge the issues that cause minor symptoms. It just takes a long time, and it's hard, and it's much faster to just refuse to let the distraction work anymore.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 14:36:23
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Yes I do think there are two situations here. The butterflies in the stomach analogy echos my comment about a child getting a stomach ache before he goes to school. I think both of these are examples of mindbody symptoms but not sure it is what I construe as TMS. When I read the books, I take away that those who have TMS have these manifestions to the nth degree, often enough to put life on hold, not just because of external stresses (school, mother in laws etc) but because of unique personality characteristics, ways of thinking, conditioning, childhood rage, current rage etc. It does not pass in a flash when an uncomfortable event passes- although people with TMS certainly have this happen as all people do. For TMS to resolve (or be managed) there has to be some conscious realization BEFORE one "feels better" not after. Whether it be the person who feels better after merely reading the book, or the person who needs therapy, the order is the same- knowledge, THEN resolution of symptoms.
I didn't mean to quibble over semantics- I do believe that as Sarno states mindbody disorders are universal, but I see TMS as something very specific. Sort of the difference between clinical depression and just having a bad week.
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 16:01:47
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lidge, I'm so glad your still here and asking insightful questions. I wish I could give you the magic stake to drive through the heart of your gremlin but I don't have one. I, like you, have been going through a difficult time. I do believe my unconscious (gremlin) has to be either the most stupid or the most stuburn S.O.B. in the world. I'm just going to keep kicking his ass until he comes around to my way of thinking.
Keep at it! |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 16:39:55
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Yes -- TMS is the 'disorder' form of mindbody symptoms, much as depression is the 'disorder' form of sadness. Sadness will pass, and so will mindbody symptoms. Depression and TMS, you nearly always have to do something about.
It's funny, I'm reading a bio of Queen Victoria, and it talks a great deal both in the narration and in comments directly from people of the period about the stress and strain she was under and how they made her unwell. I feel like somehow this knowledge was lost -- perhaps through throwing the baby of psychosomatic symptoms out with the bathwater of superstitious medical practices. (At the time of QV's childhood, the germ theory of disease was not even known yet, and people were bled routinely.) The narrator clearly understands mixed causes and suggests that she may have had tonsillitis, which was aggravated and became chronic by the stress of her family situation. In her early reign, she took more exercise and fresh air and got out from under her mother's thumb, and started to be much healthier.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 06:01:44
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Yes -- TMS is the 'disorder' form of mindbody symptoms, much as depression is the 'disorder' form of sadness. Sadness will pass, and so will mindbody symptoms. Depression and TMS, you nearly always have to do something about.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment.
This is a nice clear way of stating that stress affects us all in many little and big mindbody ways, from simple butterflies, to headaches before phone calls, to TMS or depression, up to the nasties like cancer. It's a continuum, and some kind of mindbody interaction is going on all the time, because the autonomic nervous system doesn't sleep. It is part of who we are, but like ACL says, it can reach "disorder" level on the continuum, and then you need more than just recognizing that you are having a fightorflight moment (like the phone call headache). |
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neck pain disappeared after dreaded phone call
