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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
 Posted - 09/11/2007 : 22:19:34
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Some people have said that the "Ulcer Epidemic" was a sign of TMS. It has been proven that ulcers were not caused by acid in the stomach, but by a parasite called the "Helicobacter Pylori". It was responsible for over 80% of all stomach ulcers.Surgeons used to cut away a percentage of people's stomachs as a prevention, but it never worked. Why?Because the bacteria was still there, in the lining.
The medical industry finally discovered that this specific parasite was the cause, and thus they developed treatment with anti biotics and such and slowly the epidemic went away. There is no TMS reason for this. This is proven medical fact that has a nearly 100% success rate with treatment.
Once again proving that some people who teach that this epidemic was a societal response and a TMS equivalent.....are completely wrong and living in fantasy land. |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 07:09:08
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That little bacteria does a lot of damage. I know. I had it. But getting rid of it didn't get rid of my acid problem. I officially have "reflux" and am a "heavy acid producer." That's not the little bug. That's ME making that acid. ALL of my biggest stomach flare-ups, and eventually the bad round with the h.pylori, coincided with major life stresses.
I believe hyper acid production IS TMS equivalent. h. pylori is an opportunistic bug that settles in to compromised stomachs. It is present in good stomachs too, but does no damage.
I EXPECTED that horrible (indescribably horrible) treatment for h. pylori to solve my problem. It didn't.
They do HAVE to treat the bug if it is present, because it does physical damage to the stomach lining. But the rest is up to me, to stop the acid at its source: my brain. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 07:34:17
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This is actually a good example of where the medical community jumps to conclusions.
How do they know the bacteria causes the ulcer? All they know is that the bacteria is present in people that have ulcers.
How do they explain the fact that the bacteria is also present in some people that do not have ulcers?
How do they explain that before this "breakthrough" patients were routinely told that stress was the cause of the ulcer, and many of them got better?
Even if you believe that the bacteria is the cause of the ulcer, how did it get there? Our immune system failed to fight it off. And, the immune system is a known target of TMS.
So, isn't it possible that, just as the brain reduces oxygen to muscles and nerves to produce pain, that it suppresses the immune response to h.plyori thus allowing the bacteria to fester and damage the stomach lining?
In other words, the h.plyori is not the cause, it is the result of a TMS response.
Similarly, they found that a seratonin imbalance was found in patients with depression. So they invented drugs to correct this imbalance. All those pour souls didn't have emotional problems after all, they had a simple chemical imbalance. Take a pill, and the problem is solved, right? Wrong. The chemical imbalance is a TMS response.
Modern medicine insists on proving everything in a lab and inventing drugs to "fix" things. In the case of ulcers they did us all a disservice. The world had finally accepted that emotional stress can cause a physical symptom and the incidence of ulcers decreased dramatically as a result of this knowledge. But now, they throw that clinical evidence away, because we finally found something under the microscope. It is sad. |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 09:05:42
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| and just a clarification on the need for treatment when h.pylori is present. IMO it needs treatment ONLY if there is evidence that it has become opportunistic and is actually harming the stomach by becoming a bacterial INFECTION, not just a present bacteria. I had developed anemia and low grade fever. I had a stomach infection. However, the cure is almost as bad as the infection, and you have to do a lot of damage control when you finish the course. I wouldn't wish that on ANYBODY who does not clearly show signs of INFECTION. |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 09:15:27
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| And yeah, I think TMS stuff is what sets people up for stomach infection, through overproduction of acid and messing with the immune system. The acid compromises the stomach lining and the lowered immune system gives h. pylori the green light. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 11:20:05
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Well,
I can appreciate the responses, but it seems that the Pylori bacteria is a common entity with ulcers. Mamaboulet says that "it's an opportunistic bug". That may very well be true, and TMS can no doubt compromise the immune system, but the fact still remains that over 80% of individuals with ulcers presented the bacteria.
The reason I'm saying all this is that I'm discovering that my "electric shocks" that jolts me awake at night and take my breathe weren't responding to intense therapy or changing my mind about "anxiety". Seven Doctors couldn't tell me what was going on, it was all anxiety from their perspective.
So guess what, I started taking Gaviscon before bed because it felt like the pain /jolts were coming from my chest, and lo and behold I have been sleeping like I did when I was younger. I can sleep on command now if I treat the acid. Does this mean it's not TMS? No, it definitely can be, but for now, why not take something to treat the HORRIFIC symptoms of feeling like I'm being choked and gasping for breath with something as simple as a chewable pill?
All those Doctors never suspected my stomach, and I suffered greatly. Sure TMS can over produce acid, but why should someone spend months suffering till their TMS work "kicks in" or their mind straightens itself out, till they get relief?
That's counter logic, and only a sick sadistic moron would tell someone to put themselves through that.I will definitely do the TMS work, but I won't suffer for TMS's sake, or to be some TMS purist.
I wonder sometimes though when reading this board, when is it NOT TMS? Have you guys taken the time to scan some of the responses from the strict TMS purists to newbies?
It seems like you could come here and report that your head is nearly falling off from being hacked by a saw blade, and someone will say "Hey man, you need to find out what is bothering you inside before you stop the quarts of blood shooting out from your neck." "Start journaling even though you have 20 seconds till you pass out and die".
Sometimes it's ridiculous, and I worry about cult mentality. Of course TMS is real or else I wouldn't be here, but does it have to encompass EVERYTHING?
Point out 5 threads in this forum where the majority of responding members here said that it WASN"T TMS. Just point out 5 posts to me where they said"You know, that doesn't sound like TMS there new person."
Maybe then I'll retract my attitude.
Just 5
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 11:45:23
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Maybe some of this is part of not accepting it is TMS, or better stated: EMOTIONS CAUSE PHYSICAL SIDE-EFFECTS. Dr. Sarno references Candace Pert, and her two books are scientifically-based findings that show that many physical afflictions can be emotionally-caused. She is a scientist. Has a lab. Has made interesting discoveries. The western world however does not widely accept the mind's interworking with the body. And likely won't. Read Dr. Perts books. Well worth the time.
For me, I choose to see any pain as TMS FIRST--talk to myself or write or scream or whatever. EVERY ailment since my TMS episode in january has ceased after a few minutes or hours using this treatment. I CHOOSE not to run to the doctor "just in case" it's something else because, chances are, it isn't.
And I do believe emotions can be causing a sensitivity to the "ulcer bacteria" that make different people more vulnerable. Sorry, Kevin, but I don't doubt many ulcers are emotionally-caused, thus, they are TMS.
Pills are likely placebo-affect (temporary) answers. But hey, even Dr. Sarno says take a pain pill to help you through it.
Are those who refuse to accept TMS or are still complaining of the same issues months or years later DOUBTERS? If you doubt, you will not completely rid yourself of TMS. Call it a purist or whatever you like. I speak from experience. Worst pains of my life, in fact, I was told CANCER would not hurt me as bad as my back hurt (herniated discs). Did the work to get the emotions out, got better.
I see it clearly in those around me, their feelings are related to their ailments. One person having immune issues let slip that she's afraid her husband will leave her if she is sick. Hmm, that's not weighing on her mind? It surely is. And likely causing physical harm. As most thoughts like that do. My brother tells us if he moves things around in his house, his knee will hurt the next day. Of course it does--you told it to!
I realize I am of the few who see things this way. That's ok. It works for me.
So, it is highly likely that MANY ailments ARE most likely TMS or emotionally-related.
-Lori |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 12:06:16
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Ok so when is it NOT TMS? I agree with many things you say, stress aand anxiety and repressed emotions are probably the BIGGEST factor in health today, never said it wasn't. You see, when people read a response on a board like this, they already have a pre conceived response formulated in their head. People don't like being told that maybe their is a flaw in their deeply held belief. It angers them, makes them hostile, makes them nervous. Telling a TMS person that "maybe not everything is TMS" can invoke such a defensive response. It's funny, because I even agreed that TMS can cause all these things, and probably has in myself. But what about the Pylori Helicobacter finding is not scientific? Can someone please prove to me that Helicobacter is caused by your "repressed thoughts"?
That was the original post. So does anyone care to contest that by citing science? Got any links?
I was stating that Helicobacter was found in over 80% of people with Ulcers, that is a scientific fact. Now as far as the immune system dropping to create that environment , that's a perfectly logical theory too.
I will also state that my Mother was a Gastro-enterologist for 35 years. And she knows for a fact that certain people are genetically pre disposed to create more acid in their stomachs. They have larger cells (forgot the name) from birth. And that their cells react to stress and anxiety a lot more than others, and they produce acid at three times the rate of average. Now did TMS necessarily create that? NOPE Is TMS a factor? Could be.
What about male pattern baldness? Is that TMS? What about diabetes? What about green eyes or fair skin? When does it stop? When does it stop being TMS and start being junk science or medicine?
See where I'm going here?
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 12:07:51
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I'm certainly not a purist about not taking anything for upper GI stuff. I've suffered from it for 40 years. The acid is real. It causes very uncomfortable symptoms and sets up chronic irritation of the stomach lining. But like anti-depressants for depression (been there, done that), JUST treating the symptom without going after the cause is not going to make it go away. I have been informed by a doctor that I'm just one of those heavy acid producers who will probably have to take some pill for the rest of my life to keep acid from eating my stomach. I don't buy that. Acid production is part of the autonomic system. I DO have some control if I talk to my brain. Am I going to suffer in the meantime? Hell no! I've got 2 months worth of prylosec, a bottle of tums, some DGL, and assorted eating strategies, all to help keep me from being miserable. I'm working on the stuff that produces the acid (my brain), I'm healing my stomach lining (dgl), and I'm gradually spacing out my prylosec doses and skipping them completely if I'm reasonably comfortable.
Everybody has to do what works for them. I'm new at this, but I'm convinced about the evidence, so I'm not worried about doubt creeping in while I'm weaning myself off of behavioral and chemical crutches. Self pressure is one of my biggest issues, so I'm going slow and gentle. |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 12:13:57
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| h. pylori is a common bacteria present in stomachs of many people, with or without stomach problems. It is not "caused" by repression. Excess acid production CAN be caused by repression, suppression, stress. Acidic conditions can promote disease. Stress and repressed emotions can depress the immune system. All of that can lead to ulcer-prone people. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 12:16:07
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Good attitude Mamaboulet. You are not going to let yourself suffer WHILE you treat your mind. That is very wise. And yes, I agree that Anti Depressants are one of the worst band aid drugs out there. Depression and anxiety have SO MUCH to do with ones view on life, not their "chemistry". Their chemistry is a reaction to perceived threats and stimuli or fears.
But I would like to stick to my original posts. Can someone show me 5 responses where the majority of people here said that it WAS NOT tms. I'm simply trying to establish a pattern. All I want is 5.
I'm concerned because, what if someone comes here with a TMS equivalent, does the work on their mind, and ends up having a severe medical problem due to something overlooked? How will that reflect on the mind/body community?
Not good, and it will further create a feeling that this is junk medicine or crackpot theory. I wouldn't like to see that. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 12:19:49
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You said an interesting thing Mamaboulet.
"Acidic conditions can promote disease".
PH balance in the blood can also be a factor in health. Peoples diet AND emotions can change blood PH. But is it always TMS? So because we follow the theory of "MIND?BODY" medicine does it mean that we forget the body and focus only on the mind now? Do we switch to the other extreme? |
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csmoon
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 12:22:00
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Wow, la Kevin!
I have to admit I liked your saw blade analogy. I laughed out loud. Very good sense of humor.
But, dude! Of all the obvious anxiety symptoms, electric jolts, are the absolute coup de gras. They are always nervous tension related. You already knew that. And you already knew that letting it bother you (obsessing about it and fearing it) would only make it stick around.
TMS is the same thing as anxiety. Sarno says as much. "Functional illness" is the rubric all of these things fall under, because they can't find an organic cause. This also means they are not diseases, just reactional conditions with uniformly autonomic functions as their cause.
I don't know if I buy the Freudian theory of distraction yet, but who cares? I think it's easy enough to recognize these things as harmless, not dangerous, not life threatening, and just let them come and go. If you feel the need to medicate yourself against your own fears, so be it.
I'm no sadist. I don't like pain or discomfort. But I have lived with it all my adult life in one form or another. I tried antihistamines forhives, diazepam for anxiety, Zoloft for depression, Ambien for sleep problems, and on and on. These feelings are nothing but metaphors for my self-doubt, self-loathing, fear and anger. Facing the feelings objectively, letting them be there without too much concern always makes them pass. It's getting the courage to face them that is the hard part. You already know this. Who cares if you call it TMS or BS?
You have been given the excellent, IMHO anyway, advice to read and reread Claire Weekes. Let me also suggest Abraham Low as a resource for you, perhaps even get to a group meeting of Recovery, Inc. This therapy got me over anxiety symptoms that I thought were going to kill me. They are all BS. Listening to other people tell even worse stories than I had convinced me to get going again. The therapy sessions are free to anyone in the world who can come and sit and listen and read.
It was the damn pain that held onto me. The doubt about its origin that haunted me. It was the same mechanism. All of them. I thought I had MS (my sister does), ALS, and every intractable, incurable disease known to medicine at one time or another. Sound familiar? Of course, because our minds work the same way -- fearfully. Taking meds is a fine adjunct but cannot cure the fear problem. They just mask the symptom. Education and exposure of the symptoms for what they are is the ultimate cure.
And thanks for giving me a smile. I hope to read more humorous posts from you.  |
Edited by - csmoon on 09/12/2007 12:29:42 |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 12:31:50
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Tainted with anger?
I'm not angry.
Look, I was going to bed and having electric jolts take the breath out of me and they HURT. They were literally scaring the crap out of me and jolting me awake with the feeling like I was going to die. I tried to tell myself that it was TMS but it didn't work EVER. So I take this stupid over the counter pill for my stomach and , omg, I can sleep for two nights in a row.
Now, are you telling me that I should have suffered more sleepless nights, has electric jolts that hurt me to the point of panic, been sleep deprived, on the verge of insanity....all because I should have "known" it was TMS?
So am I wrong for treating a symptom that was literally killing me and possibly injuring my esophagus?
Please don't tell me that this is what this forum is about. And please don't lecture me about TMS.
I'm starting to feel the cult vibe now, and it's very uncomfortable.I'm getting that feeling I get when Jehovahs Witnesses knock on the door with their smiles and white shirts. |
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csmoon
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 12:50:17
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How can I be a cultist when I haven't had time to drink the Kool-Aid? I just read Dr. Sarno's work a few weeks back and discovered this forum last week. Two things to keep in mind as you objectively read what follows...
You have an anxiety disorder, no? Caused by reactions of the ANS, no? Diagnosed by doctor? Good. Then please read the post above again about fearing symptoms. If your OTC drug took away the jolts, then what remains? Are you not cured? There will always be something else to come up to obsess about. You might have already noticed this.
I took the drugs too!!!!!! They helped with one symptom. They didn't do anything to stop my fearful reaction, however, to the NEXT one or the one that was happening that I didn't notice because the other one held my mind gripped in fear. That is the point of my post. I have felt the same way you do about many of the posts I have read. I have also wondered if I wasn't swimming in the members only pool without a pass. But that isn't my problem.
Did you dismiss the rest of my post because you immediately saw CULTIST and typed a response within minutes? I hope you understand that I could care less whose advice you take to get better. But if someone has come through what I have, I want to hear how they did it. That is common sense. I didn't say you shouldn't medicate. I said medication cannot remove your response to a bodily sensation, no matter how mundane or horrific.
I edited out the part about angry before I read your post, but you had already responded. You have to see this thing as your problem. And you have to see recovery as your journey of self-awareness.
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 13:33:08
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I agree your this last post. And you are also telling me something that I am already fully aware of. BTW I just got off the phone with my TMS therapist, so telling me about "doing the work" is kinda funny.
I pay 220/ week for TMS "work" and I'm told I'm improving quite well....thank you.
And I don't know if you're a new member here or not, I don't think I was calling YOU a cultist specifically.
But this is enough of this back and forth stupidity. I agree with most of your posts so how the **** can I argue with you?
I'm done |
Edited by - la_kevin on 09/12/2007 13:33:36 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 13:51:50
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You're not angry? You sound pretty angry...
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
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sensei adam rostocki
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 14:07:37
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I am showing HUGE restraint not getting involved in this one...There is just so much to say, but...
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 15:11:38
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| Kevin, I once I had an ulcer, a real honest to goodness ulcer brought about by migraine medications, I also had the xrays to prove it, after months of medications and a second xray, I walked in my doctor's office still in pain, he told me that the second xray showed it had healed quite nicely, this is when I went home and had my first cup of coffee in months , somehow the pain had just vanished. There is am emotional component in ulcers I have no doubt, fact is they still need treatment, ulcers can perforate and kill you, however a lot of time the problem is not what you eat but what's eating you, I remember reading that stomachs have neurotransmitters much like the brain , when we say we have a gut feeling we may be close to the truth |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 17:26:48
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Seems like there are plenty of diseases and syndromes to go around. Some genetic, some lifestyle-induced, some caused by environmental toxins, who knows about all the cancer and stuff. But in there, among all those things, seems to be lots of TMS and equivalents, plus that whole gray area with immune system disorders and such that seem to have a TMS connection.
I thought that was the reason that we start by having stuff checked out medically, to make sure that some actual disease isn't overlooked. It seems like enough experience with multiple TMS symptoms gives people the ability to start making educated guesses about random, illogical symptoms, but still, if I develop symptoms in the future that seem like they should be checked (fever, certain types of abdominal pain, fingers turning black and falling off, you know...), then I'll go have them checked. And after a recent breast cancer scare, I'm back to being a good girl about regular checkups.
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justme
63 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 17:32:16
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La Kevin-
I have to applaud you for finding a med to take that will help you sleep and not be woken by electric jolts.
I am currently suffering from chest pains, upper gi stuff that does not respond to antireflux meds. i know my pain is from anxiety. However just two days ago I told my doctor what I needed from her: permission to take one mg of klonopin a day and to take one reflux med in morning and night(placebo to keep my fear of ruining my esophagus at bay)
I have been feeling so much better and now have the energy and decreased fearfulness that let me explore my real diagnosis (of TMS) more easily.
It is commonly known in some therapy circles that real work cannot be done when a person is under real stress or very fearful. You need to bring a person to a place of comfortableness that facilitates the therapeutic process. (This info comes from a branch of psychology called Health REalization Counseling).
So, I would say keep taking the Gaviscon AND keep up the TMS work. Lord knows we cant work if we are not getting any sleep.
Best of Luck,
Just Me
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Ulcers as TMS? Why I Think That Is Wrong
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