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Mando1
USA
29 Posts |
 Posted - 09/10/2007 : 20:17:18
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| he is going to give me an epidurmal injection or sumthing like that. and he said that if that doesnt help i will have to consider surgery. my legs are really weak. i still have sciatica symptoms. but not like before. my butt/penis are numb. dont know what to do. im mad because i was already good. then it came back but this time it made my butt/penis numb and my legs weak/numb. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 20:34:08
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Mando, it seems that you have not escaped the trap of the physical yet.
If you were doing better after applying TMS thinking, then your symptom change is most likely the symptom imperative at work. You need to challenge the new symptom in the same way you challenged the previous one.
What are you doing as far as TMS work?
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 23:22:52
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I really need to say something here!!!!
Armchair, the guy is in obvious pain and very worried. Let's cut him some slack. Hell, if he needs an epidural, give him one for now.
Doesn't anyone understand serious pain around here?
Mando,
Relax and stop doing the run around with your mind. You are going in circles with yourself. I understand the pain is a mother f*cker, but try and breathe. Maybe when you relax and get your pain level under control, you can tel these PATIENT AND LOVING FOLKS HERE a little bit of your history with the pain, what your doctors said, when the pain started, do you think it is TMS, ETC.
Do not let people here TELL YOU you have "definite TMS". That is completely up to you to decide and conclude. You sound younger, might I ask how old you are and what "happened" to you to bring this on?
Hang in there dude, and just try and relax the brain a little. Don't think the worst, I know it's hard not to, but try and talk this out.
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Edited by - la_kevin on 09/10/2007 23:25:32 |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 23:47:48
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Wanted to add something interesting Mando.
Did you know that the postural muscles around your buttocks, thighs, lower back, hips, can all tighten and spasm causing blood flow to lessen in your groin and other places?
Wanna know how I know Mando? I had dual sciatica(chronic), feelings of water running down my legs, feelings like bugs were in my legs and hips,cold feelings in legs like I was paralyzed. A couple times my legs got so painful and electrified that my nerves kicked in so hard that my sweat glands on my legs actually SQUIRT out water...Yes I saw it happen. I felt like someone was holding a car battery to my legs...both sides front and back... from my waste down.
I had this for weeks if not months every time I had what the idiot Doctors called an "exacerbation".
Wanna know what came up on my MRI? Nothing....Nothing at all.As far as my discs were concerned, I was perfect.Sure one of the many Doctors said "hyperlordosis", but my butt stuck out since I was a kid, and never had any problems, in fact I was one of the best athletes around.
Once I had a bulge, then it magically disappeared when I had a second MRI.LOL. One doctor said "facet syndrome". Then my symptoms changed from Sciatica to this every day "feeling" of stinging in various muscles. How did it change to go into almost every muscle in my back, neck , and legs?? A Disc??? A little disc (that "healed itself") can do all that??? I don't think so.
My point is, muscle tension and neuralgia can do all these things. I'm living proof of it. That's why I know that MYOSITIS made sense to me. Also, so does Autonomic Overload". Get to know these words and what they consist of. If your Doctor has ruled out anything "serious", then maybe you need start learning how your Autonomic Nervous System will rail against you if you suppress certain emotions, or have a personality type that worries a lot, fears a lot, thinks negatively about oneself,is super anxious, is over analytical, etc.
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 04:27:09
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I agree w/ Kevin, can't really add anything. It would help to know what your'e going thru to see if/why TMS is driving your attention to your body and away from your emotions.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 08:09:27
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Mando,
You have to accept that if you go the physical treatment route then you are contradicting TMS treatment.
If this is your decision, then so be it, but don't try to apply TMS concepts at the same time, because it will not be effective.
Have you had an MRI to rule out serious disease? |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 09:24:50
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Sorry kevin, but most people who come to this forum are in pain and very worried. I don't always have time to be the one who does the reassuring posts. If you look around you will see I do a lot of them, but sometimes, like now, I am at work or on my way, and I want to get to the point. Mando has posted quite a few times now, sometimes asking quite advanced questions, and I've tried to be helpful with those questions, and I'm trying to be helpful now. When symptoms come and go during early phases, it's usually TMS (note I did NOT say definitive -- I never say that on the board!) and the key is to realize that the second symptom, however bizarre it may be, is the same kind of thing as the first, and change the thinking that causes every new symptom to be assessed physically. That is where I'm aiming with my post.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 15:49:50
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| I guess I was playing the "protector" role there Armchair. I just felt scared for the guy. He sounds young and I wanted to give him some help in some way. Didn't mean to make you look like the bad guy or something. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 16:27:39
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No worries. I try to be kind to people, and I definitely understand where you were coming from.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Mando1
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 17:19:36
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quote:
Originally posted by la_kevin
Wanted to add something interesting Mando.
Did you know that the postural muscles around your buttocks, thighs, lower back, hips, can all tighten and spasm causing blood flow to lessen in your groin and other places?
Wanna know how I know Mando? I had dual sciatica(chronic), feelings of water running down my legs, feelings like bugs were in my legs and hips,cold feelings in legs like I was paralyzed. A couple times my legs got so painful and electrified that my nerves kicked in so hard that my sweat glands on my legs actually SQUIRT out water...Yes I saw it happen. I felt like someone was holding a car battery to my legs...both sides front and back... from my waste down.
I had this for weeks if not months every time I had what the idiot Doctors called an "exacerbation".
Wanna know what came up on my MRI? Nothing....Nothing at all.As far as my discs were concerned, I was perfect.Sure one of the many Doctors said "hyperlordosis", but my butt stuck out since I was a kid, and never had any problems, in fact I was one of the best athletes around.
Once I had a bulge, then it magically disappeared when I had a second MRI.LOL. One doctor said "facet syndrome". Then my symptoms changed from Sciatica to this every day "feeling" of stinging in various muscles. How did it change to go into almost every muscle in my back, neck , and legs?? A Disc??? A little disc (that "healed itself") can do all that??? I don't think so.
My point is, muscle tension and neuralgia can do all these things. I'm living proof of it. That's why I know that MYOSITIS made sense to me. Also, so does Autonomic Overload". Get to know these words and what they consist of. If your Doctor has ruled out anything "serious", then maybe you need start learning how your Autonomic Nervous System will rail against you if you suppress certain emotions, or have a personality type that worries a lot, fears a lot, thinks negatively about oneself,is super anxious, is over analytical, etc.
i felt that to. i felt like water going down my thighs at times.
these are the reasons i sometimes doubt tms can be the cause of this:. my penis is numb,weakness in both my legs. its hard for me to pee. cant have an erection.
yes i had an MRI and it came back with 2 herniated disks,one was a 10mm herniation and the other was a 7mm . Should i go get another MRI?.
and if so what should i look for. What other diseases cann cause this Dave.
thanks la kevin you made me go back into thinking it might be tms. but im scared that the weakness in my legs wont go away or that i might end up paralyzed. i went to a neurologist and he said the herniations are the cause of everything. and so he also recommended surgery. so thats the 3rd doctor that recommended it.
i am 17. my parents dont believe in tms. and i will have an appointment with a surgeon soon. This is how i see this.....i can get the surgery and if it doesnt fix me then i will know its tms for sure...does that sound like a good plan? |
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vrampen78
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 17:41:07
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Oh my gosh...I've been trying to avoid replying anything at all because I hardly do and when I do I don't think it can even come close to anything as comforting, calm & rational as Armchairlinguist. I really have to though...my heart goes out to you...it is definitely scary when your legs go weak and the fear in your mind that one moment you are walking and the next you could lose that ability for something that doesn't make sense because you are doing everything the doctors tell you do. I can definitely understand and was there until I found & understood Sarno. I believed it as soon as I read it and ignored the pain while it was there when I started doing the work and then I started walking and pushing myself more and I'm still here (a year later) with full use of my legs. As far as the numbers your doctor gave you on the herniated disks...I've read few posts of ppl with 10mm & 7mm like you that 'recovered' completely and are still going strong after years (I hope a few reply to your post).
You are very young and because of that I understand how your parents dissaproval of TMS can really have an influence and affect on how you feel about it. Try to do the emotional work when you are just sitting around or lying down...dig deep and find out what's bothering you what's really pissing you off. Why are you focusing so much on your pain? What are you trying to avoid (emotionally)? These are things I had to tackle and still do when I panic about any feeling or tightness in my legs or back. It would be a shame to find out that at such a young age you would experiment with surgery just to find out it really is TMS. I know I shouldn't try to convince you to believe it's TMS and you don't need surgery AND I'M NOT, but I'm just saying you should explore your options.
-Veronica
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Edited by - vrampen78 on 09/11/2007 17:42:38 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 18:32:57
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The problem is, when you go for MRI and see back specialists and surgeons, then if the symptoms are TMS, they will persist or get worse.
What you are going through is common. You have to make a decision. If you decide to treat your symptoms as TMS then you must do step 1: repudiate the structural diagnosis. That means accepting that most herniated discs are harmless.
By serious disease I am referring to things like tumors. The MRI has ruled that out.
Did you have any kind of injury that might have caused the herniations? Are you an athelete? If the answer is no, then at age 17 it is extremely unusual to have such problems.
You say you will have surgery and see what happens. That's quite drastic! Do you really want to subject yourself to spinal surgery at age 17?
You can't rule out with absolute certainty that the herniated discs are not the cause of the symptoms. However, it is likely you are suffering from TMS. Why not give the treatment a real chance and then consider surgery later?
If you are unable to banish the fear and convince yourself that there is a good possibility you have TMS, and do the work, then you probably have no choice but to go the route of surgery. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 18:45:09
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Excuse me guys, but even Dr. Brady says that symptoms such as this should be treated very seriously and NOT TMS.
The penile numbness part is what is making me question. Mando, when you say you can't pee, what do you mean? Do you mean it's not working? When you say "numb", do you mean you can't feel at all? Or do you mean that it feels DULL?
Did, your doctor say anything about Cauda Equina? I don't mean to scare you, but problems with holding your urine or starting urination are serious. You cannot have an erection at all?
Look Mando, I can sit and tell you that even I wnet through a period where my urination was "weird" when I was in severe pain and couldn't sit for 5 minutes. The muscles are all connected. Hell, the muscles even connected to erections and all that stuff can be effected. Especially if you're thinking about it when it's happening. I noticed that when I used to go to the bathroom, and my penis would feel "weird", it would cause it to "hesitate" when I would try and start peeing... because I was scared. All these things can happen and there be nothing really "wrong" with your body.
But I'm a little concerned when you say things like "numb" and "can't get an erection" or "hard for you to pee". Unless your Doctor has ruled out any disc extrusion into the Cauda Equina, please tell him these things.
If you have no evidence of nerve damage, then you are probably experiencing TMS, as I don't believe that disc bulges or herniations cause this, that is where I agree with the people on the board.
Tell me specifically Mando. Do you have a hard time holding your urine or your bowels? Are you UNABLE to pee, or does it just feel "weird". Are you numb in your crotch area? And when I mean NUMB, I mean can't feel.When you pee, can you FEEL your urine exiting? Or do you not feel anything at all. Do your muscles around the base of your penis feel tight(TMS).Are you feeling muscles tighten in your waist?(TMS) or your lower back and upper buttocks?(TMS)Does your numbness in your penis come and go, or respond to a warm bath or massaging it? (TMS) Does it not bother you while you sleep, but when you wake up it seems to come on?(TMS).
You really need to be specific and stop giving these vague answers. Please do not HYPE or EXAGGERATE your symptoms. You need to be specific. Understand?
Words like "numb" and "hard to pee" don't really explain things. Now if your Doctors have ruled out Cauda Equina specifically, then come back here and then we can go forward. If you have had an MRI and they show no invasion or extrusion into the Cauda Equina, then you can rule out the stupid "disc" reason. Cauda Equina is very rare, but it happens. I'm guessing that your Doctor would have noticed it by now if it was a factor, but many times it goes unnoticed. Please ask your Doctor specifically about it.
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 18:57:58
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good post la kevin.
Mando, I know you worried about Cauda equina previously. Did you get the penis symptoms before or after you heard about C.E.?
You can see where I'm going. Did this start off w/ just some back pain? And then you came across CE on the internet, and whammo, the mind gives you symptoms?
My first experience w/ bk pain, I ended up w/ an MRI that showed Herniations. I had the Back doc do his test. He focused on my legs, I didn't know why. Pins, push here, pull there. My legs were fine.
Of course I got the education then that discs (coventionally) can effect leg pain. Well mine were fine.
That is until 3-4 days later, I was at the movies, and got up to go to the bathroom. I turned and whammo, shooting electric pain going down my right leg. It was so bad the next morning I could barely drive to work.
I'm convinced that never would've happened had I not known that discs are blamed for that. I hope your situation is the same in that it's TMS. Definitely reply to Kevins post. You need to give more details. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 19:11:15
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There was a time when I was worried about Cauda Equina too. But I realize now that it was all muscles tightening in spasms in various parts of my lower half. Sorry ladies, guys anatomy can get weird around that area. All this penis talk, lol.
I have had my muscles in spasm for months straight where my hip muscles and PSOAS Muscles were in such spasm, they were making my right testicle feel like it was being squeezed for hours on end.When my "sciatica" was bad, I even had shooting pain down the left side of my penis which was not fun at all. These are all reasons why I was convinced it was a disc. But I know better now. Muscles do all these things. And chronic muscle spasm is NOT a normal state for the body to be in. It's a reaction to something else, and NOT injury.
But the Cauda Equina thing can happen. Although very rare, there can be that one case. I would hate for that one case to be dismissed as TMS. I feel like it's the one innocent guy that gets put in prison and sent to the death chair. We need to remember that physical ailments do happen, and that TMS is not always the reason.
Rule out the physical, then go forward. |
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 19:57:56
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I will forgive the penis talk just to say:
I was 17 when I first came down with TMS symptoms. It was the wrist pain that never went away.
Mando, if the TMS diagnosis is making sense to you, then it's worth sticking with it (even if your parents aren't buying in yet).
Are you feeling a lot of the pressures that Sarno talks about? After you sort out all of those physical symptoms posts (really important stuff!!!) then it's time to come back to what is enraging the subconscious.
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salamander
85 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 01:26:11
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Mando,
If it is any help, I had badly degenerated/protruding discs at age 18 or 19 as demenstrated by MRI....as well as spondylothesis (sp?). It was suggested that a spinal fusion would help me. After Sarno, I have 0, nada, no back pain at age 41. I've been active my whole life including rigourous soccer (college), tennis (college), and bicycling...elite level. I'm living proof that a "bad back" on MRI does not equal a debilitating problem. I'm no doctor and can't tell you that you are fine, but the MRI can also be your worst enemy.
Sarno, and others, including myself, would probably look at your MRI with nothing but a shrug of the shoulders. I've always felt that if you really look at your personality, and if it mirrors the personality traits that Sarno details, then you are a STRONG candidate for TMS.
Read the book over and over and over again. Pay attention. Understand that this "disorder" can and will cause incredible pain....more pain than you could imagine for a condition that is initiated by the brain. Your parents may never understand or appreciate Sarno's message. It's not for everyone. I'd still encourage your mother or father to read the book. Ironically, it was my mother who gave me the book to read that freed me from my physical pain.
My best,
Doug |
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Mando1
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 22:44:52
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| well the neurosurgeon said i have CES Cauda Equinna Syndrome. Is there a chance he could be wrong. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 23:30:48
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| I think I heard a pin drop. |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2007 : 04:24:55
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sounds official to me. I would think this is where Sarno states that in some back surgery.."without question, these procedeures are often essential"....This might be the case for you to get on w/ your life...
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2007 : 08:31:14
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If the neurosurgeon diagnosed CES then he should have scheduled surgery for you immediately. I am curious why he would suggest an epidural. That makes absolutely no sense.
Either you are not telling us the whole/true story, or you are seeing an incompetent neurosurgeon.
If you do have CES then I suggest you treat it ASAP. |
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just came bak from pain specialist
