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manualfamale
USA
1 Posts |
 Posted - 08/19/2007 : 01:53:30
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Hi, i just finished the Mind Body Prescription, I have had Crohn's disease for 18 months now. The book mentioned Colitis and IBS, is Crohns disease a possible TMS manifestation?
Is there a TMS doctor/therapist in Seattle?
Thanks! |
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sensei adam rostocki
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2007 : 10:48:46
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I have corresponded with over fifty people who have cured diagnosed Chrohn's using knowledge therapy techniques. Personally, I beleive it to be another common TMS manifestation, although there may be a percentage of people who have an actual underlying physical issue contributing to the condition. As with many similiar disorders, the diagnostic process is not always correct and many patients with related syndromes are lumped under the heading of Crohn's. Best, Sensei
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
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sensei adam rostocki
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2007 : 21:43:38
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Easy Shawn, I run a highly successful website devoted to mind/body disorders and am a regarded published author. My reach extends far beyond this board and people generally come to me for information. Just look at the Q& A section on my site for many examples. I did not find them, they found me...Best, Sensei
...almost forgot, not only did people with the condition find me, but I helped to direct them to the treatment which helped them. It is satisfying work...
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
Edited by - sensei adam rostocki on 08/19/2007 21:45:51 |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2007 : 09:30:25
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| Don't get confused here: Crohn's disease is a subtype of Inflammatory Bowel Disease, not Irritable Bowel Syndrome. "IBS" usually refers to the latter, which is clearly a type of TMS. I am of the opinion that emotional factors can exacerbate an autoimmune condition like Crohn's, but are not causative, unlike irritable bowel syndrome. I would put it in a similar category to rheumatoid arthritis and MS. Just my two cents. |
Edited by - drziggles on 08/21/2007 07:20:00 |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2007 : 12:12:44
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DrZ,
My sister thinks she has Crohn's disease. At a stressful time for me she suggested my bloating and digestive pains were due to a gluten allergy (which she had) and sure enough, when I changed my diet, that fixed it.
When I read Sarno, after several months of work, I tried coming off the wheat free diet and now can eat anything. She agrees there is something in Dr Sarno's theory but won't buy into it entirely. She has also had ME (chronic fatigue syndrome) and other ailments.
I think her Crohn's disease is TMS. |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2007 : 14:03:17
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| I would agree with Dr. Ziggles on this. I believe there are environmental factors at play in Crohn's Disease. Yeah, stress and tensin may bring on flare ups or make it a little worse. If you want some good references on Crohn's, read up on Andrew Hall Cutler, and Jordan Rubin, the author of the Maker's Diet. |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 06:43:43
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Can I add that my sister was told she had Crohn's by her doctor so it wasn't her diagnosis. But, to add to the Secondary Gain discussion about TMS, there seems to be a tendency for people to want a different diagnosis once the orginal one has been linked to stress (so not a 'real' disease). She had accepted her IBS and wheat intolerance problem for years but recently has started referring to it as Crohn's - imo IBS was just too near a psychosomatic illness for her and she needed, somehow, to need to have a 'real' disease.
I think Dr Sarno points out the disappearnce of stomach ulcers as an example of this.
Anne |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 07:21:03
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| Crohn's disease is diagnosed by intestinal biopsy, since there are characteristic findings including inflammatory cells. A biopsy in irritable bowel syndrome would be normal. If she hasn't had a biopsy performed, I would be very skeptical of the diagnosis. |
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sensei adam rostocki
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 10:57:26
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Shawn, If you read my posts, you will understand. I doubt the actual diagnosis being correct to begin with in many cases of crohn's. None the less, AT LEAST 50 have been diagnosed with the condition, yet experienced relief using knowledge therapy. Specifically, programs to which I referred them. Is this simple enough for you?
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
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sensei adam rostocki
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 11:10:01
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Sorry Shawn, I mistook your post as doubt for the actual claim...
In addition...especially to Dr. Z, Ulcers are also a physical process with inflammatory elements and physical evidence, but Dr. Sarno writes these off as a physical condition CAUSED by an emotional process. Who says that the actual physical evidence of crohn's cannot be caused by the very same emotional process. I am inclined to go with TMS over the other speculative so-called physical causes (or lack of...)
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
Edited by - sensei adam rostocki on 08/21/2007 11:11:50 |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2007 : 19:41:11
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All good points. What I would point to is research in other autoimmune conditions (like rheumatoid arthritis) showing that journaling about painful emotions can result in a significant improvement in symptoms as opposed to writing about usual daily activities. Crohn's fits more as an underlying autoimmune condition that can be worsened by emotional factors, rather than one that is solely psychosomatic in nature. Supportive evidence is certain genetic tendencies for Crohns and other autoimmune conditions; also, these people can be legitimately very ill and require heavy-duty immune treatments. The other syndrome in Inflammatory Bowel Disease, called Ulcerative Colitis, can also be very severe and increases the risk for bowel cancer--many of these folks have to have their entire large intestine removed to avoid this...
Now, none of this proves completely that TMS doesn't play a role, but these diseases tend to be more severe than some others discussed here. I would guess that some cases you mentioned are misdiagnosed, and others may have improvement based on the research mentioned above. I hope that makes some sense.
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sundevil67
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2013 : 14:26:36
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| This is a topic I can sadly relate to. It is a struggle I have been going through for many years. Having been diagnosed with Crohn's at age 6, I find it difficult to attribute flareups to TMS. Dr. Sarno told me himself that he believed the Crohn's to be a manifestation of TMS. However I cannot get past the fact that at that young age, I would have had absolutely no cause to suffer from mind-body illnesses. No childhood trauma of any kind. I have had two bowel resections, and while I am able to mostly keep the disease quiet through diet and immunosuppressants, I regularly suffer from debilitating back pain. Back pain I know in my heart to be TMS, yet am told by various doctors it is something else. I have proven that the Crohn's can flare up as a result of emotional trauma. While my back pain improves, my bowel symptoms flare. The "Symptom Imperative" I think, but it can quickly get too dangerous to dismiss it as such, as I know what an intestinal blockage can do, and what it feels like. What's my point? I don't know. I "cured" my TMS 13 years ago, but it has returned with a vengeance, keeping me in misery for the last 2 years. I have tried everything. The knowledge or 'acceptance' is no longer enough. Arg. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2013 : 15:51:51
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| I'm really coming to believe that the patients of dr sarno who do not change the way they strain to life, but are "cured" within a few weeks are just placebo cures. I believe a real cure, which is one that can also cure crohns is a very slow difficult process, but still doable. Just because something is strain related doesn't mean it can't kill you. Therefore, it may be important to not avoid check ups when there are symptoms that warrant this. Having a tension related illness is common in young children, one that is a common one is excema. It just means that the temprament of the child leads to strain. Animals who are domesticated are also prone to tension related illnesses, which would not make sense if you follow dr sarnos theory, but makes total sense when relating it to strain. When you really fix your back pain, and not just shift it somewhere else, I do believe your crohns should get better. Good luck |
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Dr. Zafirides
189 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2013 : 20:34:21
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All,
As a physician who treats TMS patients, I do not believe Crohn's is a manifestation of TMS. That said, we know emotions affect the inflammatory system which can - and does - affect inflammatory bowel disorders.
I do believe current approaches to the treatment of Chron's leaves much to be desired. I had recently listened to "Parasites" episode of Radiolab in which they discussed the Hygiene Hypothesis as it relates to autoimmune disorders and the role of helminthic therapy (injecting individuals with hookworms or whipworms) in treating these disorders. I cannot believe this is not being used more often.
It is an absolutely fascinating discussion and really worth your time if you suffer with autoimmune disorders. You can listen to it here:
http://www.radiolab.org/2009/sep/07/
Also, I have been impressed by the work that has been done with low-dose naltrexone in the treatment of inflammatory bowel disorders. A great website discussing this treatment can be found here:
http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org
I hope this information helps you in your journey.
Kindly,
Dr. Z
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2013 : 21:38:20
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I Fully agree with Dr Z on this. My personal experience with auto-immune disease has had nothing to do with TMS despite 8 loooong years of trying. I even had a TMS doc tell me that there is no inflammation with TMS but I was too much of an idiot to listen.
Emotion can play a part as with anything, more a contributing factor as opposed to cause.
In the end I have found relieve through changes to my diet.....it's still an experiment in progress but looks good so far.
good luck
D |
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Birdie78
Germany
145 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 01:37:23
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Just wonder, when allergies can be cured with TMS (Fred Amir did that) - why crohn's d. or other autoimmune diseases can't be cured with a mind-body-approach as allergies are some autoimmune reactions,too. And does not the author of "when the body says no" mention AU-disorders?
I'm no doctor and no expert, just wondering about it and knowing a friend who's suffering from MS and curing herself successfully with a mind-body-approach (ok, she changed her diet, too so I can't say for sure that's the mind-body-approach which worked, in her opinion it's both).
Kind regards from Germany sends Birdie |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 07:59:40
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| I truly believe that they are 100% related and can be cured through the mind body approach. I had someone with ITP (an autoimmune disease), cure it this way. It was a mild case however. There was another patient of mine whose Crohns resloved after recognizing how angry she was at her adoptive mother, she later developed diabetes, which I think was a shifting of her disease, bc no real steps for change were taken. Just because it is mind related though does not mean it is easy to fix. I also think that some will not be determined enough or persist enough and some will miss the whole point in how to fix it. They just may never "get it". This is no ones fault, just a reality. I also wonder if taking meds for the condition act as a crutch to prevent the healing process such as using massage and heating pads for TMS. I am not advocating someone stop their meds as would not want them to get get complications, I am just pondering. Just think about it, if it was really that easy, dont you think that it would be very obvious what the cause and fix is? |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 08:37:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
...no real steps for change were taken. Just because it is mind related though does not mean it is easy to fix. I also think that some will not be determined enough or persist enough and some will miss the whole point in how to fix it. They just may never "get it". This is no ones fault, just a reality.
Dr. Sarno did not accept everyone who came to him as a TMS patient. To save people's time and money, he would pass on patients he perceived from his initial interview wouldn't "get it", not being suitable candidates for his TMS program. He understood they needed their TMS as a PROTECTIVE DEFENSE MECHANISM.
I see it here time and again, forum members drop in with their latest symptom substitution, seeking commiseration and support. They get sound TMS advice with no response yea or nay disappearing again for a fortnight or so.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8D7w0IUIPU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
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"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Dr. Sarno is now retired, if you call this number you will be referred to his associate Dr. Rashbaum.
"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
Edited by - tennis tom on 06/25/2013 10:41:38 |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 18:57:33
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I don't know much about Crohn's disease, but I know of 3 people in my community successfully rid themselves of it using mind body approach. It took them quite a while but once they got rid of Crohn's, their insomnia, their various muscles pain, their anxiety, their many other symptoms also disappeared or greatly reduced in intensity.
I think I join Ace1 on this one.
Only "nervous" and stressed out people have Crohn's disease. Happy and truly contented people don't have that problem.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 19:13:59
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I think its safe to say that both diet and emotional state play important roles in ones health. I believe they are the two main causes of all illness.....and are often interrelated, as we can see by the results.
Different causes for different people.....in the end I guess everyone is right.
My theory has been to get the diet right then if the problem still exists we can be 100% certain its emotional.
I'd like to know what methods these people used to cure their Crohns
D |
Edited by - Darko on 06/25/2013 19:19:01 |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2013 : 08:32:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Darko
I'd like to know what methods these people used to cure their Crohns
D
They just stop their fear of it. They practice living in the Now. They slowly introduce all those food they normally enjoy back into their diet. They do their best to live their life as if everything is fine. They eventually truly believe that there is nothing wrong with them.
Mind power, like Ace often said.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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Crohn's Disease- Can it be TMS?
