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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2007 : 21:04:11
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I have been back for about 6 weeks on this forum and have a few ideas on how it could be used better.
Dr Sarno early on in his book 'Healing Back Pain' said that the reason he came up with a new premise for pain especially musculoskeletal pain was because he realised that some of the patients who were in his care at the rehab unit where he works got better while doing physio and others didn't.
This led him to then explore what might be preventing some people from recovering and thus his TMS theory.
This also means that there WERE patients who were able to get better without this knowledge of TMS or maybe they did not have TMS.
So it is possible that there are many people who may not have have TMS and therefore it is possible that they may be able to find physical relief thru other forms of therapy.
Surely there are people like that on this forum too for whom the TMS diagnosis is inappropriate.
I am today pain free because I KNOW that I had TMS. I was convinced only after I had read all 3 sarno books, Fred Amir's nine steps, Marc Sopher's To be or not to be pain free, ordered the videos, saw them again and again and literally got my hands on any material I could. BUT how can we as lay people say for sure about anyone else? It seems that what we do here is presume everyone has TMS and I am not sure whether this approach is correct or not.
I feel that as members of this forum we can help those who come here by directing them towards the material that is available on TMS, the links etc. but THEY are the ones who need to decide whether they have TMS or not . This they can do by reading all the material that is available (so much easier now) or else going to see a TMS doctor.
If and when they do think that TMS is part of their problem and they have some understanding of the premise, the symptoms and the treatment should we engage in any form of discussion with them.
We can't do the reading for them nor can we diagnose for them. They have to do the work. THEY HAVE TO DO IT ACTIVELY AND NOT PASSIVELY. At the moment, I feel that many people who post here do the bare minumum themselves and expect others here to summarise aspects of TMS for them coz they are too lazy to do it themselves.
I have seen threads here where people start by asking for help, get lots of advice but never acknowledge that they have read the advice nor do any follow up.
I don't think that helps them at all nor does it help this forum.
I would really like to hear what others have to say.
Thanks
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2007 : 23:52:57
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Nice to have you back here. The work has to be done - and kept up.
Reading and re-reading the material from Sarno and others is essential. As long as we have egos, the anger/tms generating mechanism is in place, waiting to be offended,hurt,etc. and start the process again. |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2007 : 04:26:39
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quote:
Surely there are people like that on this forum too for whom the TMS diagnosis is inappropriate.
Mala,
from my experience of those around me EVERYTHING is TMS. I don't kow anyone with childhood leukaemia or cerbral palsy so am not including those types of serious illness in the equation.
Accepting the idea that you or your brain are causing years of miserable suffering to yourself is hard and may not be possible for some people so they will not be cured by Dr Sarno's theories.
"The work" that sufferers have to do, particularly examining their deepest feelings, is a whole new concept to most of us. And, of course, it may be a longer path for those of us with long term TMS (30 years in my case) - although I don't think anyone has given an opinion on that to my knowledge.
In my view the turnover on this website is pretty fast, posters come and go proving that the improvement/cure rate is good.
Anne |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2007 : 05:59:30
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Anne,
I am no expert as I said before so I can't say for sure whether someone has TMS or not hence the need to self diagnose first.
Second, acceptance of the diagnosis is crucial to the person who is in pain in order to recover. That is why Sarno himself will not spend time with anyone who is not willing to believe in TMS. Hence the screening.
People need to be receptive to the idea of TMS and believe in it.
After all anything we post here can only help if the person is in the right rame of mind to acccept the advice given. Otherwise it is a waste of time, effort and energy as we have seen in some recent threads where some people are not ready.
Third, the reading and the work need to be done by the person. No one can do it for him or her.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
Edited by - mala on 08/12/2007 08:29:31 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2007 : 11:05:51
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Mala,
While I don't quarrel with you on the merits, I'd say the attempt to in some way regulate the forum along the lines you propose (if I'm reading you correctly) is doomed to fail. It's just impossible to get so many people on the same page. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2007 : 11:36:29
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I disagee with meta threads and with attempting to regulate the forum. Dave has stated that this is a place for people to engage in discussion about TMS, and that a small number of irrelevant things are specifically not allowed, and that's it as far as I'm concerned.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2007 : 17:59:26
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Mala,
I entirely agree with what you say but feel that it is not a straight path for some, sudden major improvements followed by a relapse for example so discouraging someone because they haven't applied themselves adequately could stop their slow improvement. They might get there in the end. We should be patient with them but still point out how improvement can be made - which is what happens now.
Anne |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2007 : 18:48:44
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I 'm not suggesting in any way to limit discussion or advice to anyone. I fully understand the importance of the kind of support this forum and the good people here have to offer especially at times of despair and doubt. I know only too well because I am very grateful for the help that I have received here and in some small way, I hope that I have been able to help others too.
I was hoping however that along with that we also try to nudge people more in the direction of doing the work like reading, journalling, ignoring the pain etc THEMSELVES ACTIVELY which is paramount to their recovery. They have to understand no one else can help them if they don't help themselves. This is a simple premise.
Quite often I have seen people post here asking for help and when I ask them simple questions like what have you done so far or are you thinking psychologically or tell them to look at some link etc, there is no further response. It makes me feel like they want YOU to tell them what is wrong instead ofthem figuring it out themslves.
Funnily, what helped me the most were the brief, almost curt yet loaded responses I received when the forum was first conceived by people like Austin Gary, Tennis Tom, Dave who would not only say their piece but would question and challenge what I was doing for myself. They may have sounded a bit harsh but on hind sight it is exactly what is needed sometimes.
Bit like sarno himself I imagine
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
Edited by - mala on 08/12/2007 19:33:16 |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2007 : 22:30:42
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Mala
quote:
They may have sounded a bit harsh but on hind sight it is exactly what is needed sometimes.
Yes, I like straight talking but recently it seemed to me the straight talking was coming from uncured TMSers. Someone in denial is not going to convince me of anything.
I agree that some of the older posts are the best. We could hilite these but really anyone can look these up for themselves.
Anne |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2007 : 07:17:51
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You do all know that Tennis Tom was never cured of his TMS.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." It's all you need to know in order to recover. |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2007 : 07:25:26
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
You do all know that Tennis Tom was never cured of his TMS.
Not true. His depression - a TMS equivalent was cured.
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Edited by - h2oskier25 on 08/13/2007 07:25:57 |
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weatherman
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2007 : 09:24:03
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I believe TT's main dilemma was his "degenerative" hip, and whether it was TMS or real. And Sarno et al do not say that ALL pain caused by hip problems is TMS, only that it CAN be. Both Sarno and Sopher say that hip reconstruction can be a miraculous surgery - provided that you really need it in the first place. And therein lies the rub.
I.e., many types of pain - like garden-variety lower back pain - are virtually always TMS (mine certainly was). But some things only "may" be - and those are the toughest to reconcile.
Weatherman
"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 07:10:11
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Dr. David Schecter diagnosed him with TMS and he was consulting with Don Dubin on a regular basis.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." It's all you need to know in order to recover. |
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How to really help others and use this forum
