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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
 Posted - 07/27/2007 : 09:26:42
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Thanx Dave..that's great advice as always!
I wish the pain in my wrist were magically gone..still very limited w/ basic things but working on my mind where it originates..
Hugs,
Karen |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 12:17:17
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnD
So from now on I'm gonna monitor everytime someone gets upset or frustrated at an unruly TMS recoveree.
Oh, thank God. The thought police have FINALLY arrived.
John, you haven't been here for the years that some of us have, and you haven't seen Karen's history. We know Karen as a very compassionate and sensitive, talented person, but it's difficult to see someone you like suffer after ignoring your advice over and over again. If you knew Karen's history, you'd know she's had EVERY kind of pain from head to toe, and we don't like seeing her feel restricted and fearful about it - never mind the pain. After a while, frustration is going to set in.
Plus your comment about ACL's comment about "There's no such thing as Carpal Tunnel" spoke VOLUMES about you. You seem to have this desperate NEED to believe that some people are physically restricted and physically impaired.
I agree with ACL's comment whole heartedly. Of course, there is such a thing as Carpal Tunnel, it's a tendon. There is NO SUCH THING as Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. The brain creates pain where it wants to.
JohnD, I suspect you might be in the clinical industry - maybe a physical therapist or something, and have come on here to sprinkle doubt everywhere you can, to keep your practice and your industry in the high profit lime light. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 12:34:08
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Can I be picky and point out that actually the carpal tendon is the tendon, and the carpal tunnel is the space surrounded by tendon, bone, etc. through which the medial nerve travels? 
But I wholeheartedly agree with Beth. For goodness sake, it's normal for people to be upset and frustrated occasionally. Being so on a message board doesn't mean that we're somehow messed up. And it doesn't do anyone favors to keep trying the sweetness and light approach when it doesn't work.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 12:35:11
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Sorry to add more ambiguity to the world of TMS (particularly given that some people here can't handle even the slightest hint of it), but there is such a thing as carpal tunnel syndrome, though in most people I believe it is a symptom of TMS. Objective abnormalities can be found on nerve testing (EMG/NCS), though in my mind these are a result of the TMS pathophysiology, given that it is often seen in people with other TMS symptoms.
More to my point is that there are a group of people where carpal tunnel syndrome is a purely structural problem and unrelated to TMS, for example if there has been a significant fracture of the wrist, with certain systemic illnesses (e.g., hypothyroidism, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis) and pregnancy, and particularly in the elderly (older folks tend to have more weakness and less pain, and more often present much later in the course, when the nerve is severely affected). I don't believe that "RSI" is a true cause of this latter CTS, but that it is another TMS manifestation.
For just about everybody on the board, though, it's just another part of the world of TMS, so don't flame me...(oh, and consult with your doctor before making any medical decisions). |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 12:36:37
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Karen,
In some of your posts on this thread, I see the panic that I often feel (although mine isn't TMS related these days). I still remember what it was like to relate all my pain to the disability, and the disability to the financial implications .... on and on until you've imagined full out catastrophes.
Panic is but only one little person in the fabulous and diverse society that makes up your mind. If you feed him, he grows stronger. Don't feed him.
What I do is FIRST - Calm and still your mind. When you start saying - "I can't do the voice lessons tonight because ...." and thinking about all the things that are going to be hard and impossible because of the pain and perceived disability . . .
STOP
Use imagery to calm your mind. I picture very calm water (Like Lake Mead) or a heavy blanket of snow in a park. Think of how quiet those settings are, and focus on it for several seconds. Take one deep breath in, hold it a LONG time, and breathe out slowly. This forces your muscles to relax.
SECOND - Realize that you weren't put on this earth to panic and fear and struggle. Realize that your God will not let you fall. You have never needed for food or water or air to breathe, so just let all the concerns go for a little while.
THIRD - Do some TMS work. If you're busy, just let it be a couple of seconds of "Gee, I wonder what is bothering me on a phsychological level today" - without your conscious mind saying "I KNOW what's bothering me today - It's fear of this, it's the pain its the . . . "
Acknowledge and stop those conscious thought when they crop up, and ASK the question of the psychological issues. Try to listen for an answer.
It's easy to see from the outside that your nervous about the commission job and such. Perhaps a little performance anxiety - PERFECTLY NORMAL. We all have stress about our jobs. Realize that this is totally normal, and totally OK for you to be anxious about, and that this contributes to your occassional flare-ups. Nothing to be done about it - the realization will set you free.
Know that Today, you are able to do what's needed for you to do.
You are a talented, beautiful, compassionate, sensitive person with lots of gifts. Enjoy them.
Cheers,
Beth |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 14:53:02
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Beth - LOL - 1st I've been posting on this forum since back when AustinGary ran it in 2003....oh and i just happen to be a member of this updated forum that Dave started in 04 for well longer than you....ironic
2nd- my post was supposed to be sarcastic and point to the irony of the situation
3rd - if you actually read my first post you would see that I had "carpal tunnel syndrome" aka tms and used Sarno's books to heal myself and change my life. I was making the point that its impossible to diagnose every case of every type of pain with a keyboard - thats just a fact.
you're soooo smart tho :))) lol... wish I had it all figured out like you
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 15:54:14
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DrZiggles,
Thanx for you input..:)
I know it's not carpal tunnel..I didn't fracture or even do anything violent enough to get that syndrome, i was just stretching my quads oddly to protect my knee..And I sure have alot of other TMS manifestations...
Beth,
Thanx for your insightful and caring post and for the compliments..made me smile..:)
Hope you are doing well!
I know i am under alot of pressure..and this wrist thing has really caught me off guard..I am still having symptoms but i am not panicing like i was..thank God!
Hugs to all of you,
Karen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 11:16:18
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Hi Friends,
Now the left wrist, which hurt alot less then the right is really bad too..I am in a major quandry typing w/ 1 finger and even the slightest thing that resembles the movement i did that appeared 2 start this is painful...basic things like carrying a very light bag, scooping dog food from a can, etc..i wouldn't dream of trying 2 paint...I have a good friend who is a physical therapist and he said splint, ice/heat contrast, see him wedsnesday if not better..he thinks tendonitis and it could turn into carpal tunnel...so what do i do? i am terrified. I realize that in tms you must not do physical modalities..but can i risk getting real cps as an artist?
feeling hopeless...
~karen |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 11:38:30
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Hey Karen,
Even if you approach it from a purely physical standpoint....you would have had to do something traumatic to your wrist in order for the symptoms to elevate to the point that they have. Also, even though most physical therapists say splint, ice, rest, etc.... that is even contradictory to some of the basic principles of physical therapy (such as you never want to immobilize a joint unless there is a bone fracture etc...because that would make the tissues more stiff and make the condition worse). If you aren't able to apple Sarno's principles, then if I were you I would see my PCP, and demand to see a neurologist to get a nerve conduction velocity test done....I had one of these done 5 months into having "Carpal tunnel syndrome" and even though I had the pain/tingling 24-7, the nerve conduction velocity was normal. This then made me suspicious and eventually led me to find Dr. Sarno's work and realize that what I had was TMS all along.
Also tendonitis doesn't just turn into carpal tunnel syndrome, and of course a physical therapist would think along those lines, that is what they are trained to do :-) I highly doubt that most physical therapists would pull Sarno out of their back pocket and tell you have TMS regardless of what you told them.
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 11:46:09
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| Thanx John..I don't have tingling now, just pain..especially if i use them so it almost seems logical 2 rest them 4 awhile...i don't know..i am beside myself right now..i won't get nerve tests ever again..had an emg 4 my neck years back...very painful..i went 2 my acupuncurist (OMD) she said rest, etc 4 two wks..tendinitis, no cts..i am so scared and confused |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 14:23:56
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Karen, if you have anything other than TMS I will eat my hat with a live fish in it. Are you doing the things we recommended?
If you're not, do. If you are, remember that the big thing is TURN OFF THE PANIC. I've mentioned several of times that I think the reason you still have pain is that the pain still "works" on you -- it still distracts you from your real emotions. You really have to step outside yourself for a moment and look at how true that is. Despite being suggested to stop thinking of the pain and think of the emotions it is distracting you from, your posts are all about your pain.
As for that, you've not done anything that 'should' bring on either tendonitis or CTS, even presuming such a thing exists. Your use of your body is well under normal full-time use.
Throw away the emotions caused by the pain, the panic and the fear and the worry. Find your true emotions underneath. That is really and truly the one thing that you must do to get to get past this place that you've been stuck in.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 16:28:12
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| thanx acl..cannot even type now it is so bad. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 16:54:14
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quote:
Karen, if you have anything other than TMS I will eat my hat with a live fish in it.
I'll join you. Karen, forge ahead. You simply have to take this leap of faith. Your hands aren't going to fall off if you keep typing. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 18:00:02
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| thanx art..it is pretty bad pain and a little hot in the area..some pain intermittent in fingers..i am so afriad to make it worse..tried holding phone in wrist that isn't as bad, and now it is...has anyone noticed heat in an area that hurts and it's still tms? |
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mikescott_98
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 06:18:29
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Karen,
It's like deja vu all over again.
Just so I know you have read what Sarno says about CTS, give me a few specific quotes Pages 94-96 of The Mindbody Prescription paperback.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 06:19:38
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You're so stuck. Everyone of us has dealt with severe pain. Why do you continue to think you're different? Aren't you willing to try to get this at all?
Just do it. I know that sounds ungentle, but that's all this is you know. Just moving through the pain. In my view anyway...
Those that find the wisdom and the courage recover. Those that don't, don't.... |
Edited by - art on 07/31/2007 06:41:22 |
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mikescott_98
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 06:41:48
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Karen,
It's like deja vu all over again.
Just so I know you have read what Sarno says about CTS, give me a few specific quotes Pages 94-96 of The Mindbody Prescription paperback.
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mikescott_98
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 07:11:06
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Karen,
Everyone here believes you are in tremendous pain, but you are the only one that thinks it is caused by a structural defect. Everyone else knows it is caused by unconscious emotions creating the pain to prevent you from thinking about things the mind wants to keep repressed.
I do not know if this has been brought up before and please excuse me if this seems out of line for this forum. I feel that your problems are deeper than not being able to paint. Since Dr. Sarno believes that things that happen as a child have effects on peoples emotions throughout the rest of their lives. Were you abused as a child? You of course do not have to and maybe shouldn't answer that here, but I think you might want to consider your childhood experiences as a possible source the unconscious rage that is causing your problems.
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 07:42:03
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| thanx for ur thoughts, Mike..:) |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 08:01:56
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Karen, if you have anything other than TMS I will eat my hat with a live fish in it.
OK, so that's three of us to eat our hats.
Karen. We are wired very much alike. Most of my past TMS pain was wrists, which always had me DIRECTLY fear the one activity I needed to perform most, that which gets me paid. I see this in you, "What am I going to do if I can't paint?" Do you see the connection our mind makes for us. Pain = Fear. Truly an effective distraction.
I know you are in pain. It's time to laugh at it, and say "Is this all you've got? I can keep functioning through THIS. Really."
Show your mind that your intentions are to keep going, to keep painting, to keep typing. Challenge it. "What are ya' gonna do? Make my hands fall off."
Don't forget to do the "searching for underlying emotions" work, too. Look there instead of focusing on the pain. Easier said than done, but talking to the Physical Therapist is NOT going down the right path. Remember, this is just one of many pain syndromes you've had over the years, and equally harmless. The body is strong. Your body is strong.
We're still waiting on those quotes from pages 94-96 of the Mindbody Perscription paperback.
Beth |
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wrist pain-carpal tunnel?
