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K2toK9
29 Posts |
 Posted - 06/17/2007 : 18:01:31
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Hi Everyone,
I have had foot and leg pain for 3 years now and it is getting worse not better. The pain began (some of you know this story) after a complete hysterectomy! About one month after surgery, I went back to my daily walks and developed a neuropathy in BOTH feet. Add to that leg pain and now I think I have plantars facisitias in both feet; especially painful in my right foot. I am actually thinking of giving up my part-time Teaching position because it is too much standing. I cannot take walks and I cannot stand. I wake up in pain and go to bed at night in pain. I am very frustrated. I am thinking of seeing a new Neuromuscular Doctor and a Podiatrist. Can this really be TMS? ALL suggestions are welcomed. |
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sensei adam rostocki
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2007 : 18:35:26
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Plantar Fasciitis is almost always psychosomatic. It is becoming a popular specialty for medical providers which show clearly that reported symptoms are on the rise. I would treat the condition with knowledge therapy and try not to give in by stopping activity. I definitely think that is the wrong route to take...
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
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K2toK9
29 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2007 : 18:40:26
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Thanks for your posting on my situation. Why do you think plantars is almost always pyschosomatic? How does one continue walking or standing when the foot/feet pain is bringing tears to your eyes (it hurts that much). I am very interested in what you have to say.
K2toK9 |
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davec
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2007 : 03:53:29
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Hi k2to9 if you look back you will see some of my posts regarding foot pain.I too developed two 'neuromas' over three years ago (I had no reason for this ,started in the right foot and within 4 weeks the left!)apparently neuromas don't normally do this, and am now living with burning in my feet.I have seen many specialists who, though well meaning, scared the hell out of me as my whole life revolves around sport,i was a good runner but have had to stop.At present i am pretty convinced mine is TMS but,as you know ,it's very very hard to believe that such burning pain can be physcosomatic but i definetly fit the TMS personality.I also believe i have been influenced by what i have been told and read about neuropathy etc in terms of how it can develop,i think Sarno calls this the noncebo affect,in other words i started expecting further symptoms and got them.Apparently TMS foot pain can be difficult to clear(it lingers acoording to Sarno ) but there are people on this site who have won.I am seeing a neuropathy specialist next week as i have been waiting a year and i only discovered TMS at Christmas--i also want to rule out any physical problem like vitamin deficiency etc.Read back through other foot posts it helps to see we are not alone and read Sarnos books and Dr Marc Sopher who is a runner.
Best Wishes
Daid |
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K2toK9
29 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2007 : 12:57:18
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Hi DaveC,
So what you are saying is like we become"self-fulfilling prophecies".....we expect more pain and therefore we get more pain? I do see what you are saying. I have read Dr. Sarno's book and seen a TMS Doctor in my area about 2 years ago and I have seen Neurologist, Pain Specialist, etc....It is scarry because some of these Specialist offer meds only and some of the meds are strong and I didn't want to go that route.....but now I am not sure what to do. I get up in the morning and within a short time, the pain has begun and it is with me all day. I fear the day will come when I will not walk at all do to this pain....and that really scares me A LOT. This is also causing issues with my family.....basically they are sick of it....and frustrated by it.
I too have been told that nerve pain/ neuropathy is not usually bilateral. I still think my surgery has something to do with it, although I too will admit to having a TMS personality.
Keep in touch and let me know how you are doing.
K2toK9 |
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randolo
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2007 : 14:48:02
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stop using words like neuropathy and plantar fasciitis. a well-meaning podiatrist consigned me to years of pain when he told me that's what I had. The pain actually moved after he told me where this process takes place. I even had surgery for it to no avail. I highly doubt your hysterectomy has had anything to do with it.
I feel for your pain because I too have had debilitating foot pain and it's horrible. I've actually crawled on my hands and knees because my feet hurt too much. But I've gone from never going on walks, never going to a museum, taking a stool with me to the grocery store/post office/bank, etc., to walking our dog, going on hikes, and not using the stool for the last 2-3 years. Fortunately I have a job where I don't need to stand. Perhaps you could use a chair for a while, for temporary sympton relief, as you put the TMS practices into effect and then stop using the chair as soon as your symptoms get better. Just stop thinking of it as physical, ignore the pain as much as possible (I realize how hard this is) and go about your normal life as much as possible. Good luck!
Randolo |
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randolo
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2007 : 14:51:17
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stop using words like neuropathy and plantar fasciitis. a well-meaning podiatrist consigned me to years of pain when he told me that's what I had. The pain actually moved after he told me where this process takes place. I even had surgery for it to no avail. I highly doubt your hysterectomy has had anything to do with it.
I feel for your pain because I too have had debilitating foot pain and it's horrible. I've actually crawled on my hands and knees because my feet hurt too much. But I've gone from never going on walks, never going to a museum, taking a stool with me to the grocery store/post office/bank, etc., to walking our dog, going on hikes, and not using the stool for the last 2-3 years. Fortunately I have a job where I don't need to stand. Perhaps you could use a chair for a while, for temporary sympton relief, as you put the TMS practices into effect and then stop using the chair as soon as your symptoms get better. Just stop thinking of it as physical, ignore the pain as much as possible (I realize how hard this is) and go about your normal life as much as possible. Good luck!
Randolo |
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K2toK9
29 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2007 : 16:10:05
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Hi!
Thank You for your insight. I know using the "medical terms" is probably not the way to go and I even catch myself sometimes.....but I have tried the Sarno approach about 2 years ago with no improvement and so I thought it must be physical...?? I even spoke to an operating nurse who said that nerve damage in the legs and feet was possible from any abdominal type surgery....and that position on that operating table for that length of time....okay I should stop, but this is what I do now. How do I "fight" those facts?
K2toK9 |
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2007 : 12:27:10
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Think psychological!
You can do it!
Re-read Mindbody Percription and let it sink in!
I am a teacher. At the beginning of my career and when I was suffering from TMS (primarily in my arms) I used to get knee pain that had the fancy diagnosis of "patella femoral syndrome." Kept me from excersizing and truly scared me that I wouldn't be able to work as a teacher coz there is so much standing, walking, leaning, bending involved in early elementary.
Whatever. These docs have no clue about Sarno and have to give everything a name. As soon as I started really believing in the TMS diagnosis the knee pain has never come back.
You can do it! Your body is able!
If there are times during the day when you "don't" feel the pain and then suddenly you have some downtime or a particular incident and you start feeling the pain, really examine what's happening in those moments. What feelings and emotions are crossing your mind....
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K2toK9
29 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2007 : 21:18:33
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Thank You sooo much for this. As a Teacher in the early grades I get so scared that this foot/leg pain will take over and I will have to give up a career I love. I can see that you know exactly what I mean by this fear as a Teacher. Thank You!
Thank ALL of you for your insight.
K2toK9 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2007 : 13:24:57
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HI K2toK9,
Does the K9 refer to a dog? Just wondering because I have two and they are such a blessing in my life..
I feel for you regarding the foot pain..I have recently battled with this..Interestingly when my foot feels better, my neck starts in..I have had to wear only crocks for a week or so..because since I wore a particular pair of sandles, the foot pain began..I battled this in the past and it just went away on it's own..What our minds can do to trick us into focusing on the physical is truly infuriating..I think the suggestion of noticing times when the pain suddenly comes on stronger is important..What are you thinking/feeling in that moment..I am going to try that myself..
I hope you feel better soon,
Karen |
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UK james
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2007 : 14:06:03
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In a recent podcast of sarno being interviewed (by don ruffell or someone like that) that i downloades from this site, he states that nerves that peel off from the spine are the predominant thing oxygen starved. Depending on which nerve then affects different parts of your body, eg hands, feet, knees etc.
For e.g. I had foot pain when i was 12, groing pain when i was 16, back pain when i was 23, achilles pain when i was 27! all due to location substitution - different nerves in my back being targeted.
Tell ur brain to increase blood flow / oxygen to the nerves in your back.
It is hard to imagine footpain being tms but it sure can be but it originates in the nerves in your back.
Sarno in the podcast even states that he has changes TMS to stand for TENSION MYO-NEURAL SYNDROME!!!!
James |
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salamander
85 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2007 : 15:00:28
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I spoke of this in a previous post aways back, but....
I had the most amazing experience with heel pain (PF) when traveling in France about 10 years ago. I visited the Louve, Versailles, and walked my ass off throughout Paris in one day. I guess I was motivated, I would love to know how many miles I covered. At any rate, that evening I had the most intense/excruciating pain in my heels (both of them). I literally could hardly touch my feet, much less walk on them. My feet appeared to be swollen and I assumed big time inflamed. I spent three days and sleepless nights languishing in my hotel room and managed to eat junk food saved in my back pack. At the end of the third day I crawled (I'm not kidding) to front desk and called home, in tears I explained to my family that my planned two month trip would be cut short to 5 days. I was worried how I would get to the airport.
The next morning I was still in the same amount of pain, and terribly scared. However, a rage consumed me that not only was my trip ruined, but my body seemed to betray me. In a blind rage I threw on my clothes, shoes, and back pack, and stumbled out of the room. The pain was so severe that I grit my teeth as I limped to a nearest bench, rested, and then stumbled on. My attitude was "screw it" they can amptutate my goddamned feet later, but it was not going to ruin my trip.
By that evening my feet were fine and seemingly back to normal. To this day, that pain eclipsed anything that I had ever felt in my life. If I had not actually experianced it, I would never have believed in such total and complete recovery in so short a time.
In retrospect, I've wondered if the pain would have lingered indefinately if I had been home. My previous TMS "problems" had always seemed to last for months or years....Perhaps my brain could no longer fool me when I pressed on and managed to continue to travel?
Any any rate, sorry for the long winded story. All I know is that my foot pain had to have been TMS, there was no other explanation.
Regards,
Doug
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2007 : 16:10:04
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Doug,
ALthough this was not my post, I have to thank you for your story..I found it very helpful and inspiring..I have been all through Europe and I had ankle issues in ENgland, similiar to what you described but not as bad..I put ice on it a few days, pushed thru the pain and it completely went away..Previously i had ankle sprains..but these ridiculous pain syndromes can come on at the worst times..I admire your will to push through to the other side!
Thanx for sharing,
Karen |
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K2toK9
29 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2007 : 18:18:32
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Hi Everyone,
Yes, "K9" does refer to dog as my life is full of show dogs whom I love and the "K2" is (Teacher thing) for Kindergarten to Grade 2 which is what I do.....and love.
I was just thinking today, what if I got up and just stood on my feet for hour and then took a long walk....what would happen....but I am still afraid of this pain. I actually was doing okay for about 10 days after all of your insight. I had come from months of pain and feeling some relief for nearly 2 weeks was awesome! Then Sunday I had an issue with a family member and I thought I was fine, so I went about doing what I needed to do, which included painting a room in my house. I was on my feet and up and down the ladder most of the day and now my feet hurt sooooo much! So, was it standing and up and down on the ladder or was it the run it with a family member or a combnation of the two that has ent me back months?? This is where I get stuck.
K2toK9 |
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Hestia
21 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 15:07:19
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| I have had plantar fasciitis and tarsal tunnel (a neuropathy) in my feet. the pain also affected my legs. went to many doctors. wore orthotics every waking minute. I suffered for 1 1/2 years where my whole life during that time revolved around my feet. thanks to Dr. Sarno and my reading Healing Back Pain my feet started getting much better within a couple of weeks after finishing the book. I agree that PF is mainly psychosomatic. But psychosomatic is such an ugly word. the pain is real but the cause is not. the fear is one of the worst things. It perpetuates the pain. It has been 2 1/2 years I have been doing better. I run and exercise 5 times a week. Right now I am struggling with a little relapse but I am not letting it stop me from doing anything. Still going where I want to go and doing what I want to do. It will not affect my running/exercise. Try not to let it take over your life. |
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davec
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 03:29:59
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Hi Hestia,thanks for keeping the positive info going on foot pain,as you can see and probably know those of us with a 'neuropathy' diagnosis and very real symptoms find it so hard to accept that it is all in the head,although in my case i do know that on my better days the pain is far less intrusive and less threatening than on the days when i am tired or less accepting so there has to be a correlation. I am getting better at accepting and doing the emotional stuff,however the fact remains it is not going to be an overnight fix as is the case with some of the people here and in Sarnos books.I also am finding whenever i really go at the thinking stuff i do develop other burning elsewhere like my face and currently my itchy scalp which is both wierd and sometimes scary.I have to confess its not easy- if i could absolutly sure i don't have a a disease or physiological problem then i believe it would be easier but alot of the parts of me that i now feel brought on the TMS make that leap of faith quite difficult.
This 'idiopathic neuropathy' problem is a real toughy-but i am sure it could be all out TMS -its got all the hallmarks.Anyone else had success or know of anymore info on TMS and peripheral neuropathy as there is little in any of the books i have read or in the search area of this site.
Best Wishes
David |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2007 : 08:16:48
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K2, definitely your family issues that set you back. If you have been getting relief from following TMS thinking for the last few weeks, then you have TMS. It's normal to have relapses in stressful situations. Don't get too discouraged, just keep at the work.
It's very possible to have TMS, try the work, and not have it "work", so to speak, so I wouldn't take your previous lack of success as indicative of anything. The first time I read Sarno nothing happened for me -- I guess I wasn't ready to really believe it, or something.
I had foot problems for about 18 months, though my primary symptom was RSI. The foot stuff was very hard to deal with, as you say. At the worst I could hardly walk 1/4 mile, which was a big problem since I was living in Scotland and walking was my only way of getting around. To get better, and now when I get recurrences, I will stamp around on my feet going "You can't fool me, I know this is psychological, just stop it." It hurts but it works. Challenge it and increase activity gradually and you'll get there.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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K2toK9
29 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 08:33:48
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Hi Everyone,
i got through the summer and fall with minimal foot pain (neurophathy)....I was even walking pretty much on a daily basis. I accepted another part-time teaching position and started taking graduate classes myself. My children were back in HighSchool, my husband found a nw job and our very busy schedule seemed to be working. Then, about one week ago, the foot (nerve) pain came back full-blown. I am so frustrated and fearful of getting through my very busy work week. I cannot put socks or shoes on my feet with out pain and the blankets at night are just as painful. Any, ANY advice out there would be so welcomed. Am I stuck with this nerve pain forever ? Should I simply accept this.....over 3 years later?
Thank You,
K2toK9 |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 11:04:47
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| I had the "plantar fasciitis" diagnosis, and the "neuropahty diagnosis" in my feet and was told to stop running forever. I wore orthotics for years, had massage therapy, etc., etc. and the foot pains disappeared not long after my back pain. It is conditioning!One thing you mentioned that stands out as a tms symptom is that it is in BOTH FEET! To injure both feet at the same time from running, or sports is uncommon, but for the mind to send you pain in both extremities is EASY! |
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truenorth
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 10:45:56
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to davec
I agree with you about lingering foot pain. I've had it for six years, have seen Sarno three times about it and only get worse, not better. I'm beginning phone therapy with Don Dubin this week, after nine fruitless months with a Sarno therapist.
Just curious, where in Sarno's books does he say that foot pain lingers? I've never come across it and have read his books 29 times and seen him in his office or talked on the phone at least ten times.
Thanks. |
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Foot pain
