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eliuri
USA
50 Posts |
 Posted - 05/27/2007 : 02:27:37
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Hi there:
This is my first post to this forum. Thank you for hearing me out.
I have a history of a number of the conditions which Dr Sarno attributes as TMS equivalents in his Healing Back Pain book [See section there on The Principle of Equivalence]. Interestingly, back pain itself isn't one of the conditions I had.
In the past, I've had chronic prostatits, pelvic tension myalgia, and TMJ which resolved ~90% with acupuncture and/or recognition that stress, rather than an organic disease, was driving these. I also have an excruciating case of IBS which thus far hasn't responded to anything. I suffer from severe depression which is presently untreated. Can't tolerate the antidepressants I've tried.
Recently, I've developed several distinct sore areas above and below the knee. I can readily elicit the pain by gently pressing on them. One of these sore points is very close to the fold of the knee, but the pain isn't directly on the joint-- though its closeness to the knee does worry me a lot. I don't notice any joint pain when I bend my knees or try to rotate at that joint . Several other such sore areas are found a few inches above and below the knee. They're on both legs, but much more painful on the right leg. There are also such distinct sore spots which I can palpate on both feet, though the location of these seems to shift quite a bit. The fear that this may be arthritis is driving the anxiety level way up. I often feel muscle stiffness in my legs when awakening. It's often hard for me to walk more than a few blocks or climb a staircase. Carrying mildly heavy groceries can also trigger much pain in the legs.
This pain is often preceded by a pain in the lower intestines, characteristic of the IBS. It then seems as if that pain turns into some sort of heaviness which then descends into the legs. [I realize how odd this must sound ] This sensation then turns into leg pain and soreness, whereby I can distinctly palpate those sore points as if they were close to the surface.
My general physician, who uses acupuncture for these sorts of things, now seems to feel this is due to the muscles in that area being chronically tensed up too much. Either from odd sitting or sleeping positions or from being under stress. Seems he was initially oriented to blaming it on the tendons rather than muscles. Occasionally acupuncture works for this, but even when it does, the effects don't last more than a day or so. I gather his conclusion is based on my long history of several pain syndromes in which the target was muscle tissue of some sort.
It would help if I had a better understanding of what might be going on at those palpable sore spots. It feels as if the "injury" were close to the surface rather than in the deeper layers. There is no visible swelling or redness.
There's a whole lot of emotional stuff going on as well. I wouldn't mind sharing. Might be useful once I'm convinced this is truly TMS. But given the way things seem to work with me, it would be helpful to get a better grip on the physiology here.
In the past, I've found that once the underlying physiology was explained, and the functional--rather than organic -etiology was elucidate somewhat, it became easier to accept its psychogenic origin. But this one has me stumped and frightened. 
Can anyone here help explain this symptom better?
I appreciate this forum.
-Eliuri
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Edited by - eliuri on 05/27/2007 03:01:48 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 06:29:27
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quote:
Originally posted by eliuri
There's a whole lot of emotional stuff going on as well. I wouldn't mind sharing.
Weclome to the board, I hope you find it helpful.
The emotional issues is of most interest to us here. I highly recommend that you not write or talk about your symptoms after this initial posting as you draw your conscious attention towards them even further and help perpetuate the symtoms. All the symptoms you have mentioned are TMS equivelents. I was also diagnosed with chronic prostatitus, but I am a lot better now.
What we are interested in, however, is to what extent you fit the personality profile as outlined in Dr. Sarno's or Dr. Brady's books.
Do you have a pain-prone personality? Take a look at this url:
http://www.bradyinstitute.com/aboutBook/painProne.asp
Yes, the TMS pain can be frightening and some have been even confined to their beds due to the pain but, as Dr. Sarno notes, fear is part of the syndrome.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
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Edited by - shawnsmith on 05/27/2007 06:50:39 |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 09:33:35
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Hi Eliuri,
Your post absolutely wreaks of TMS. You wrote of your symptoms as well as any medical chart would describe them. You will need to change your thinking from the structural terminology to psychological/emotional talk. This may take a little time, but not too long.
You need to read Dr. Sarno's books until you can quote from them by rote, rather than from the perspective of the language of anatomy books. Everything you need to know is found in each of his books.
The Good Doctor describes how he does a physical exam of his patients using palpation. There are charts in his earlier books showing the TMS points that are markers for TMS, neck, shoulders, upper and lower back and legs.
I can speak so assuredly that you probably have TMS because you have gone to your doctor, and unless he is a complete quack, he has performed ALL the conventionl tests and they have come back showing that you have NO structural conditions, so that leaves you with UNIVERSAL TMS.
The fact that he is doing accupuncture on you exhibits how helpless conventional medicine is in understanding and treating psychosomatic TMS pain. Conventional medicine is in denial of the huge factor emotions play in "dis-ease". Recent studies have shown that accupuncture doesn't do anything beyond placebo effect. If you don't believe me do a google.
I have had over a hundred accupuncture treatments. You experience wonderful relaxation for a brief period. It evaporates as you drive out of the parking lot and return to life's stress creating highway. It works for relaxation, because where ya' gonna' go with all those needles sticking out of you?..you are forced to stop and relax for 45 minutes.
In the past, conventional medicine would have never resorted to such a technique, nor reccommending supplements like glucosamine-chonrotiin which recent studies have also shown to be useless. These studies make the news for a day on their release, but no one has a vested interest in publicizing them since they are bad for the businesses that sell them.
Conventional medicine has become so frustrated in dealing with the TMS pain epedemic that it is resorting to such quackery, and also chiropractic, because nothing they are doing is helping their patients.
Your IBS and history of other symptoms is typical for TMS sufferers also.
In conclusion. Thanks for posting your stuctural history so well. That's also typical of first time posters, who, I have seen make a quick turn around here. Now READ READ READ the TMS books, until you chnage your thinking and acquire the TMS jargon and can talk the TMS talk by rote. It shouldn't take you long.
Also, if you can go to a TMS doctor for a dx it will also be very helpful to combat all the conventional medicine nocebos you have been ginven. This site's HOME page has a list of TMS practitioners and also the Tarpit Yoga site has a very good TMS USA map listing them also.
Good Luck!
Any Questions?
tt
Some of my favorite excerpts from " _THE DIVIDED MIND_ " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 14:22:57
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Welcome Eliuri,
Your detailed post suggests to me that you are probably a very logic-oriented person and likely have perfectionistic tendencies, which tend to be common traits to those with TMS. Not that there is anything wrong with logic, but it can add to our stress levels when we have to deal with so much that does not seem logical in our lives.
Most of what you describe mirrors part of my experience with physical symptoms--the leg pain, sore points (I experience them not only in my legs, but also back, arms, and scalp)and IBS. I have had other symptoms too. Conventional medicine gave me diagnoses of IBS, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, as well as chronic depression and anxiety (and a few other things).
The only book I've read by Dr. Sarno is The Divided Mind, his most recent. It also has several excellent chapters by other doctors. You can find a lot of great excerpts by using the link in Tennis Tom's signature, at the bottom of his post. I've read a couple TMS books by other doctors too.
Dr. Sarno has proposed that the mechanics of TMS pain have to do with oxygen deprivation, brought on by the unconscious mind. I don't know how many doctors you've seen or how much reading you've done on various conditions, but I've discovered over the years that much of medicine is really still in the theory stage, even though the media tend to make their reports of medical subjects sound like it's all scientifically proven fact and even doctors often come across as thinking that way. So even if Sarno's theory doesn't seem to explain all the TMS equivalent symptoms, that doesn't mean the symptoms aren't psychogenic. Actually, the fact that conventional medicine can't pin down a true physiological cause for many symptoms reinforces the idea that they are psychogenic. If you can convince yourself to accept the repressed and suppressed psychological feelings as the source, even if you can't know for sure just how the brain is causing these symptoms, you can make good progress in spite of not knowing the exact physiological explanation.
In my experience, I can always link my episodes of IBS pains followed by heaviness descending into my legs with psychological factors. For me, it is always a sign that something is adding to my feelings of depression. When I have that feeling, I can stop and figure out just what is bothering me emotionally, but I'm still not to a point of being able to just make these symptoms disappear as I can with some of the other symptoms which flare up over emotional triggers.
It would probably be useful to you to search through some of the past threads to see what others have experienced, as that helps to build confidence that all these symptoms can indeed by psychogenic. You might try searching on trigger points, since people often use that phrase to describe the sore points. There are lots of threads about IBS too. It's nice to have you on the forum, and I think you'll find it a very helpful source of information and encouragement.
Wishing you well, Corey |
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eliuri
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 16:54:28
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Thank you, TennisTom, Shawnsmith and Littlebird:
I only have one of Dr Sarno's books. Healing Back Pain. I just ordered two others which I think are more recent. The Divided Mind was among those.
Littlebird writes:
quote:
Your detailed post suggests to me that you are probably a very logic-oriented person and likely have perfectionistic tendencies, which tend to be common traits to those with TMS. Not that there is anything wrong with logic, but it can add to our stress levels when we have to deal with so much that does not seem logical in our lives.
===========
Yes Corey. I'm generally hyper-logical in orientation. Was a math and physics student during better times. Then went into linguistically-oriented fields. Except recent upheavals have interfered drastically with my clarity of thought.
As far as those personality characteristics cited in the link posted by Shawnsmith, I'm perfectionistic in attitude. Though it seems I never achieve anything. Often driven to despair before I can complete an undertaking.
I'm somewhat obsessive-compulsive and live with many fears. I guess the term on that Brady site is: Fear Prone. I would describe myself as somewhat Stoic, but every now and then I feel an overwhelming urge to give expression to pent up feelings. Survival for me throughout my youth required that I keep silent about some really sleazy stuff happening to me and others close to me. My life revolves around fear. Not sure it would help if I wrote of this here. It's odd , but the most recent syndrome making walking painful came on about the time I was planning to write in some detail--possibly a book-- about how I grew up and how it seemed to be replicating itself in the present. I felt a degree of excitement about doing that, accompanied by a sense of foreboding about some adverse consequences of my doing so. As I came close to beginning that project last summer, the pains--described in my earlier post-- in my feet and then in the leg area came on. They were sorta there a few months before, but in so mild a form that they didnt interfere much with my daily life. This may all be coincidence of course. But I do recall writing someone that I fear I'd get ill before I get to tell my story.
Will what I write on this forum show on a Google Search under my user name?
Shawnsmith writes:
quote:
The emotional issues is of most interest to us here. I highly recommend that you not write or talk about your symptoms after this initial posting as you draw your conscious attention towards them even further and help perpetuate the symtoms.
I understand your recommendation somewhat. But can you be more precise about the guidelines here? I don't know how to refer to those symptoms without describing them.I do realize I often go into painstaking detail when writing of these symptoms, since I keep thinking that if I knew the mechanism, I might have a better handle on using mind over matter to overcome it. That's precisely how I was able to gain some degree of control over the "prostatitis" syndrome.
Right now, I was thinking of whether I'll be able to take my daughter to the amusement park tomorrow for her birthday. I did tell her my legs might hurt too much. But I'm thinking maybe I should just force myself to do it anyhow, without waiting for an acupuncture session. Maybe take along some pain killers, in case the pain makes walking too hard. I feel so pathetic writing this. I feel even more pathetic telling this to a ten year old.
I slept about 8 hours last night. Yet I feel as if I hadn't slept at all.
Sorry for the choppiness of this post. Just realized how it must contrast with my original note to this group. Thanks for listening to this.
-Eliuri
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 18:36:31
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quote:
Originally posted by eliuri
I understand your recommendation somewhat. But can you be more precise about the guidelines here? I don't know how to refer to those symptoms without describing them.
I understand the need to tell us about your symptoms on your introductory posting, but now I am suggesting that you concentrate in your postings and private journaling on those issuses which are the real source of the pain. Reading the pyschology section of Dr. Sarno's Healing Back Pain is a good start and then think about how what he has written relates to you. Do you in any way fit the profile of what he is talking about? Tell us about it and see if we can sure together.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Do you have a pain-prone personality?
http://www.bradyinstitute.com/aboutBook/painProne.asp |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 19:52:22
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Hi Eliuri,
My heart goes out to you. Take your child to the event. If it's TMS that you have--and it most likely is TMS--there is nothing physicaly that can stop you. Just put one foot in front of the other and JUST DO IT!
It's NOT mind over matter--it's mind over mind. DON'T wait to understand the physiogical mechanism. As soon as you discover one physiological mechanism, your gremlin in your mind will come up with another to stump and distract you with.
Dr. Sarno says that it is NOT important to understand the myriad of mechanisms that create psychosomatic TMS pain. The mechanism is YOUR mind. It works in mysterious ways that we may never chart.
Discovering the mechanism is not your job. Your job is to lose your fear of the gremlin, lead a productive life and take your daughter to the park for her bithtday--that's all!
The mind has an id an ego and a superego. They are in constant conflict, creating rage. When the rage gets to be too much, it overflows the psyche's reservoir of rage and presents itself in physical TMS psychosomatic symptoms as a distraciton.
The Good Doctor says that this is a PROTECTIVE device to keep us from acting out anti-socially, doing or saying something that will seriously piss-off our village. The subconscious primitive mind creates, unknowingly, for us TMS symptoms, which are socialy acceptable as a distraction.
That's it in a nutshell. Take your daughter to the park for her birthaday. That would be a great first step in your recovery and start building your confidence to return to NORMAL activity.
Your are in the thick of this, break out of the circle of fear!
Good Luck!
tt
Some of my favorite excerpts from " _THE DIVIDED MIND_ " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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Edited by - tennis tom on 05/27/2007 20:06:28 |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 23:08:17
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Hello again,
Your background of being forced to keep silent about sleazy things is classic TMS stuff. I'm sure a large number of us relate to it. It seems to me that it may not be simply coincidence that the pain issues flared up when you made plans to write about the past. The ingrained pattern of fear of what will happen if we break the silence can be so overwhelming that the unconscious mind tries to stop us from expressing the anger and pain we've stuffed away for so long. Journaling and therapy are probably the best ways to reroute our neural pathways, to change the brain so it stops giving us that knee-jerk fear reaction.
As for what you may choose to share on the forum, my advice would be that if you'd be uncomfortable with someone you know coming across it, perhaps it would be better to keep those things off the internet. The journal and therapist methods are more private. But it can be useful to share some feelings and events that you would not mind having others see on the forum. The insight in the comments of others here is just astounding at times--exactly what I need to hear to push me along in the path to recovery.
Take care,
Corey |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2007 : 00:07:14
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P.S. Eliuri,
Depression is also TMS. Is is called an affective (emotional) TMS equivalent. It serves the TMS distraction/protection purpose just as much or more so than a psychogenic structural one.
I experienced a "significant" depression about a year ago. I had trouble with the meds, Lexapro, that my therapist rx'ed. I quit them and continued the therapy cold-turkey. I'm now back to "normal" again and enjoying life. Things can turn around quickly.
Make sure you get regular exercise, approx. 30 minutes a day, to give you the physical strength to deal with the mind stuff.
Some of my favorite excerpts from " _THE DIVIDED MIND_ " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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eliuri
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2007 : 23:18:34
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Tennis Tom wrote:
quote:
My heart goes out to you. Take your child to the event. If it's TMS that you have--and it most likely is TMS--there is nothing physicaly that can stop you. Just put one foot in front of the other and JUST DO IT!....[SNIP]
That's it in a nutshell. Take your daughter to the park for her birthaday. That would be a great first step in your recovery and start building your confidence to return to NORMAL activity.
===============================================
Hi there Tennis Tom:
My gratitude for your advice!!. Was a great day at Astroland Amusement Park for both of us!!!. . 
I did about six hours of walking, standing, climbing subway stairs and ramps, sitting in cramped amusement park rides designed for kids, etc, etc. I did take along a few painkillers for just in case, but didn’t use them. Didn’t need them.
Yes, the pain did come on every now and then. I tried to treat it as background noise, signifying little. The kind of noise us city people have gotten used to. I kept reminding myself to simply “keep putting one foot in front of the other” as TTom suggested. Eventually, it did subside, and didn’t reach the disabling crescendo I had feared.. When it reemerged, I simply engaged myself in what my daughter was saying or doing, and in my mind I kept telling those sensations to stop messing with the kid’s birthday. I envisioned them as some sort of party pooper. It did still hurt, but those periods when the pain lifted made it much more endurable. This was much more physical exertion than I had engaged in a long time.
Though things had turned out better than I had feared, the most unpleasant part was my worrying about how it ‘ll all feel later when I got home, or the next day. I can’t speak for the next day yet…. But I’m already home, and I’m not in any worse pain that two nights ago when I wrote that first post here.
Thanks again Tennis Tom for your encouragement. Turned out to be good advice.
-eliuri |
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Leg pain and Palpable Sore Points
