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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
 Posted - 05/11/2007 : 04:48:11
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I was treated successfully for sciatica by sarno about 10 yrs ago. Since then, ive used the tms theory to rid myself of "irritable bowel" sympotms as well as carpal tunnel. I recently had a worsening of chronic sinus problems which i thought might be tms related, but had trouble treating it, and i was pretty sure that a deviated septum was a big contributor (i think tms might 'target' anatomically weak areas) so i had surgery to correct the septum, and it helped significantly. Here's the problem: since the surgery ive had a sudden worsening of a chronic psoriasis condition, pretty annoying to say the least. My gut tells me its more of the same (tms) but i'm having trouble accepting that idea for a couple reasons:
1) unlike the sciatica, CTS, etc, which generally had acute onsets, this is just a major worsening of a condition ive had as long as i can recall.
2) its easy to conceptualize the brain regulating bloodflow, controlling the nerves etc, but a little tougher seeing how it could cause physical changes in the skin. The immune system is implicated of course, but still it seems to me that (at least in my case) it behaves more like an infection (viral,bacterial,fungal) than a psychosomatic disorder.
I'm curious what others think, especially anyone who might have had experience with tms and skin disorders?
Thanks for any input-S |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 05:41:54
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Although I have not had psoriasis, I suffered with eczema for many years. Psoriasis and other skin disorders are common TMS equivalents. TMS will manifest itself in a variety of forms with a view to throwing you off and casting doubts in your mind. Continue to do the same kind of psychological work that you did to rid yourself of your other symptoms and I am confident that you will recover from this also.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
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mikescott_98
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 06:12:24
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| When Dr. Sarno explains how the brain and emotions can sub-consciously control blood flow to parts of the body in TDM, his example is blushing which I assume is excessive blood flow to the the skin in the face. It would make since that the mind can restrict flow to all of the skin which might cause the psoriasis. You might be correct that the root cause psoriasis is caused by bacteria, but as with sinus infections and ulcers, if the normal blood flow is restricted the bodies natural white blood cell defenses are not given a chance to work correctly. |
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 06:43:29
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Yes, yes. Skin things are definitely mindbody/TMS. This question comes up a lot. I haven't had psoriasis specifically, but have had a whole bag of other skin ailments that drove me up the wall. They were itchy beyond belief, annoying to the extreme, and embarassing to have.
Do a search for "skin" (or specific skin conditions) using the search feature on this forum, and you will likely find a lot of helpful/reassuring threads.
Good luck,
ss
p.s. You've already come very far! Keep at it. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 08:22:24
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Hi Stanfr,
That is wonderful that you have used Dr. Sarno's treatment and recovered from all those things! Good for you!!
I have psoriasis in various places as we speak..I have had it since early high school and my mom had it..I have noticed that stress (namely TMS) makes it worse, definitely..However, I have also noticed that eating dairy, wheat or alot of sugar contribute to it's worsening as well...Some think it's origin is in the liver, some say intestines..Our immune systems are actually over active, meaning better then most people when you have psoriasis..so I suppose that is an upside..ultimately, I believe the mindbody are totally one..So if you use the TMS treatment plan for the psoriasis and try to work through whatever might be troubling you in the now, it will probably disappear..
Good luck!
Karen
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 08:54:45
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Unlike everyone else, I'm not convinced that psoriasis is totally TMS, though I think it could be, but it seems like a worsening of a chronic condition is a likely candidate for TMS, even if the condition itself turns out not to be. Inflammation is a major part of psoriasis, and it's part of the immune system response; TMS is well-known to work through the immune system. Also, if you feel yours behaves like an infection, the immune system is obviously involved in infection.
You don't really have anything to lose to try applying the Sarno method here.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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mikescott_98
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 11:56:34
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When I first read Dr. Sarno, what made me believe that I had TMS was that he said most of his patients also had equivalents . If back pain was my only problem, I might not have been able to see the similarities of myself and his patients mentioned in his books. When he mentioned the equivalents (sinus infections, foot arch pain, colitis) that were all happening to me at a particularly stressful part of my life, it made it much easier to accept that I did have TMS. In my case the more symptoms I had the more likely it was I was affected by TMS.
I am glad he added acid reflux to his latest book, so I can try cutting out the antacid tablets from my daily diet. Maybe in his next book he will say gray hair is an equivalent and I will be able to change my sideburns back to natural color  |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 04:31:37
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Thanks for the encouragement! I just bought TDM, hopefully that will help. I have a hunch that the psoriasis was a 'symptom imperative' that developed as a consequence of the nose surgery; funny thing is it actually developed before i even saw the ENT who did the surgery, but i think somehow my subconciousness was aware that i was going to have the surgery done in the near future, so it was already switching symptoms on me. I think the main problem i have in overcoming this one is that im still not completely convinced that it is TMS; as some have pointed out in other posts it seems strange that young children would have TMS symptoms like skin disorders.
In my case, the psoriasis has been constantly present, but only occasionally caused pain or discomfort; so i don't know how it could be TMS if it's not even distracting (when it is mild). Also, the other chief "alternative" theory of psoriasis (and many other syndromes that are supposedly TMS) is that it's Candida. Since i took antibiotics for years (for acne, another TMS possibility) that would make me a good candidate for fungal infection. But, i suppose it would be easier to try the sarno approach rather than months of strict diet and organ cleansing!  |
Edited by - stanfr on 05/12/2007 05:10:21 |
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jst
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 07:37:55
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| I don't really see why it's strange for children to have minor bouts of TMS. They're human, just as we are, and as young, naive, and inexperienced as they are, they go through some pretty stressful stuff growing up, from having to do homework for the first time, to the first time they experienced real pressure in sports or performing in front of crowds, to acceptance from their friends, to having feeling required to feel positive feelings toward siblings by their parents to being required to always be on good behavior. I know now, having thought back to my past, that as a kid I had a ton of minor OCD and TMS symptoms ranging from tinnitus to lots of OCD eye-twitches, nose-twitches, and habits such as always having to do everything equally (for a crazy but true example, if I were to stratch my right cheek, I'd have to then scratch my left cheek to even it out. but then I'd start to like to scratch my right cheek more than my left, so I'd scratch my LEFT cheek 10 times, knowing that because I required myself to even everything out on each side, I'd then get to indulge in the pleasure of 10 consecutive scratches of my right cheek. sounds absurd, but I have a lot of friends who had this exact same thing growing up.) |
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molomaf
119 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2007 : 08:38:50
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I haven't posted for a while and was just visiting the site after some time and saw this thread.
I have two autoimmune skin disorders although not psoriasis, very similar. I believed they were totally TMS but all the work in the world wasn't helping. I went to a skin psychologist in Boston. Focused on meditation self healing as well as the emotional reasons. My skin continued to get worse.
This is what I have figured out. There are some skin disorders that will respond to meditation and self healing such as hives, some forms of acne. And while I would say that all skin conditions have a connection to TMS, autoimmune disorders such as psoriasis, are also connected to leaky gut syndrome. It isn't important what came first, the emotion or the physical problem. Both aspects need to be dealt with. Physically, the skin is the vehicle for the body to get rid of toxins that the body cannot filter through the liver. How the body got into the state is probably emotional but to cure the skin necessitates healing the body and the mind.
Michele |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 04:33:24
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| Could be, Michele, hence my dilemma! I think if you are even in the least bit convinced that "leaky gut" is the cause of your problem (and there is no real proof of leaky gut, either, it is yet another en-vogue conclusion of many in the alternative health biz, particularly popular among those who want to sell you supplements!) By Sarno's theory, there is no way you can overcome your TMS, because you are entertaining a physical rather than psychological cause. That's the way i interpret it. There is certainly some appeal to the lg hypothesis, but my diet and lifestyle hasn't been particularly bad, and if lg is reponsible for skin disorders im surprised more of the population isn't suffering. You didn't say, did you recover from your problem, and if so how? |
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molomaf
119 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 06:51:34
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S-
Everything isn't TMS. As far as skin conditions, TMS plays a role but it isn't the entire answer. My skin condition is definitely emotional and physical. What came first is hard to say. My guess would be emotional.
I am a firm believer in Dr. Sarno and TMS and I tell everyone about Dr. Sarno if I hear someone is suffering from pain syndromes. I myself no longer have back pain. I owe my life to Dr. Sarno. But everything isn't TMS. If you check messages back to 2005, you will see that I had a real back issue that I was too stubborn to recognize as a real medical emergency because I was convinced it was TMS.
I have tried to heal myself using TMS and my skin just got worse. For some things, it takes more than the TMS work. I have spoken to Dr. Sarno himself by phone and I have spoken to the author of When the Body Says No, Dr. Gabor Mate. I have read Candace Pert and have made healing my skin my primary focus. So I have done a lot of reading and research. Sometimes more than TMS work is necessary.
I am sorry that you don't believe in leaky gut but if you look into it, it makes sense as the reason for most autoimmune conditons including skin. The immune system is very sensitive to emotions. When stressed, it can be damaged and not work properly. Most likely it was because of emotional reasons. Foods start to not be digested well and the liver tries to do it's job but gets overloaded. The body is trying to get rid of toxins and it tries first through the liver(my liver enzymes are off). When the liver can no longer handle it, it comes out through the skin. It takes a long time to undo the damage of years. It has only been three months that I have been trying to heal using physical means. I also go to a mindbody healer for my psychological issues.
I don't visit this forum very often because my back pain issues are a thing of the past thanks to Dr. Sarno and this forum. TMS work has done nothing for my skin-that isn't to say that some skin issues cannot be resolved by doing the emotional work. I believe some skin issues can. But mine cannot as I have spent countless years working on them and I have not gotten any better. If your skin was as compromised as mine is, I think you would look for other healing methods, also. My skin condition affects my entire torso and I am uncomfortable all the time. I developed a skin infection in January and the dermatologist had never seen anything like it. His nurse could not stop saying she was sorry. It was quite serious. I had a high fever for a day and was put on antibiotics. Of course the derm wanted me to take some drug that is used for people with organ transplants and could cause lymphoma! It slows down the immune system. I, of course, said no to that.
I only mentioned the leaky gut syndrome as help to others. No one needs to feel that have to try it. Leaky gut is not just a theory. If you do any research on it as I have, there is a lot of proof that it works but it takes time. TMS was the first and only work I did for several years as I was convinced I could heal my skin this way. Stress plays an important role in creating skin problems but I am taking a multi-pronged approach to healing it.
Michele
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 07:18:30
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Many people on this message board will report on one symptom or another and ask whether other board members consider it to be a manifestation of TMS. Here is what Dr. Sarno says in chapter 7, page 147, in "Healing Back Pain" under the subtitle: "The Emotions and More Serious Disorders." Please try to keep these words in mind when experiencing new symptoms. I highly recommend you read the whole chapter, and especially that section:
"There are those in medicine who believe that emotions play a role in all aspects of health and illness. I am one of them. [Franz] Alexander suggested doing away with the term psychosomatic medicine since it was redundant - everything medical is influenced in some way be the emotions. I believe that all medical studies are flawed if they do not consider the emotional factor. For example, a research project dealing with the hardening of the arteries usually includes consideration of diet (cholesterol), weight, exercise, genetic factors - but if it does not include emotional factors, the results, in my view are not valid."
*************
Sarno-ize it!
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 07:35:07
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Michele: i certainly don't believe that everything is TMS. I am sorry to hear of your condition and wish you the best with whatever treatment options you pursue. I long ago learned not to be preachy or generalize my personal sucess with back pain when i encountered others with symptoms that resembled TMS to me. I'm a very skeptical person, and am only open to things that make logical sense to me (TMS did). So far, the only things i've seen about 'leaky gut' come from internet sources which are really just all sorts of people making unsustantiated claims. Saying the liver isn't functioning properly is a medical conclusion and i'd sure want good hard science to back it up. If you can point me in the direction of convincing information regarding that theory (lg), please do, since i am definitely open to pursuing all possibilities! thanks for your response-S
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 08:24:10
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quote:
Originally posted by molomaf
The immune system is very sensitive to emotions. When stressed, it can be damaged and not work properly. Most likely it was because of emotional reasons.
If emotions can harm ("damage") the body, wouldn't they also have the power to heal?
ss |
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Jeff
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 10:24:34
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| There are a number of conditions that have greater currency among lay-people than among doctors. Leaky Gut Syndrome is one of them. Many months ago I raised on this message board the issue of Candidiasis, which I think is similar. I also know of people who believe that taking certain antibiotics (quinolones) can cause certain symptoms, including many that I now regard as TMS. It is possible that all of these theories are just a lay-person's way of explaining what you or I might regard as TMS. Or maybe that are real, I just don't know. What I do know is that the more you believe in those syndromes, the less progress you will make under Sarno's method. If you believe your symptoms have a physical cause, then your efforts to deal with TMS likely will be less effective. That TMS "gremlin" in your head works by persuading you that there is something physically wrong with you, and believing in those syndromes caters to that. Just my two cents. |
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molomaf
119 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 12:10:37
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This will be my last post. I guess I thought I was trying to help but it seems as though I haven't. I will check messages from time to time. I understand the Sarno philosophy and it worked for my back pain. It is not working for my skin. If someone has had their automimmune skin condition cured using Sarno techniques only, please let me know.
Michele |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 14:05:44
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molomaf
Don't go away upset. All of us on this board are fallible creatures with very limited understanding. We all hope, in fact, you have TMS because we know that with the power of your amazing mind you can indeed heal yourself as have thousands and thousands of other people have with the help of TMS principles. All we can do is offer a bit of advice based on our very limited experience.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2007 : 00:21:06
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I completely agree with what Jeff has said, but that doesn't make it any easier  Leaky gut is most definitely a physical diagnoses, because it suggests a Candida (or other parasitical) problem. Unfortunately, perhaps becuase it would be difficult to disprove or prove (kinda like TMS) no study im aware of has really looked into that theory. I mean, you'd think that studying whether Candida can affect your intestinal walls would be straighforward scientifically, but whado i know  I think the biggest hurdle i have in accepting a TMS diagnoses for my new symptoms is that these symptoms have been present for as long as i can recall, just not bad enough to cause distraction , which seems to argue against it being TMS, since if it can't distract, by definition it can't be TMS! Of course, emotional factors certainly could play a role (as they do in any disease) but the underlying cause could still be pathological.
It's very frustrating. |
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bjmjpl
1 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2007 : 20:17:49
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so jeff, what did you do about the leaky gut and the candida - i was on tetracycline for 3 years everydeay for acne since i was 16, now 33 and have struggled for those 15 years - though no longer have any back pain but just got my latest LGS test back and its worse -
i saw your earlier post and kind of felt the same, attack it with antifungals but i do know and believe that underneath it all is Sarno and i have been working with a Sarno therapist for years.
am i supposed to just wait and be sick and throw it all in the sarno bucket? Is that the only way this will work?
i would love to hear from i think suz who had a lot of the same issues, taking supplements watching what you eat...
Jeff, what did you wind up doing and how is it working out?
thx |
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psoriasis as tms?
