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salamander
85 Posts |
 Posted - 03/10/2006 : 17:19:14
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Hi all,
Supposedly, TMS is a benign process, ie. harmless, no damage etc...However, all of us have faced at one time or another that period where you want to believe, but the pain is still horrific. Many of us have attempted to fight through the pain, some with success, some not.
Theoretically, if one is in the throws of TMS, and the muscles, nerves, tendons, etc...are oxygen deprived, would you not then consider these body parts to be in a "weakened" state? The problem may start in the brain, but it seems that state of the muscles, nerves, tendons are now altered (ie oxygen deprived). Could that lead then to real injury if you were to push the body too hard, instead of moving slowly ?
I guess I ask this question because that has always been my delema when recovering from TMS...how hard to push it.
Regards,
Doug |
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joemccarthy
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 18:46:24
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Hey Doug. I'm not a firm believer in hypoxia or partial lessening of oxygenation of the tissues as the actual source of TMS related pain. Stress, tension, anxiety certainly can and do result in less than optimal ventilation but a lowered arterial O2 saturation is a very common state in a lot of disease states which don't necessarily induce localized pain symptoms. Examples would include emphysema, morbid obesity, congestive heart disease, pulmonary fibrosis among others.
There is nothing benign about debilitating pain. Chronic and intractable pain the like of which I suffered from over many years was destructive in many ways but the syndrome as described by Sarno as being the origin of pain was in and of itself not a process of physical pathology. That measurable physical pathology exists in relation to pain; i.e herniation of a lumbar disc accompanied by sciatic pain is not a coincidence because if the diagnosis is TMS this pain is produced opportunistically by the unconscious brain taking advantage of existant pathology to legitimize the symptoms.
In my case when my conscious brain accepted the TMS theory of pain origins completely and without reservation the pain stopped. I have had incidences of different pain in different places but scoffed at my unconscious attempts at dissuading me from my new found belief and they too went away. I guess I've been luckier than others in this regard.
If the pain did not go away as rapidly as it did I am sure that I wouldn't have "pushed" through the discomfort not so much for fear of exacerbating injury but because I'm a wuss and and my pain threshold has been very low. Best to you. |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 18:50:43
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The pain is horrific coz the conscious mind is very clever. It wants you to stayed focussed on the pain so it makes it so bad that you believe that there is something really wrong. It does this coz it wants you to stay focussed on the pain and it seems that in your case it is succeeding.
The more you stayed focussed on the physical the less likely you are to work on the emotional. The fight here is all about you recognising this and getting on with living a normal life. If you are scared and keep wondering about the pain then you have lost the game.
Of all the examples that have been posted here and there are thousands, we have yet had to read one where someone actually says that he or she has sustained any kind of further injury form pushing themselves too hard.
Take it as far as your comfort levels allow you to if you are worried but this is all a mind game really to get you to focus on the physical and stop you from thinking about the emotional.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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salamander
85 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 20:30:32
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Thanks very much for the replies. I consider myself a success story, as I have recovered from various TMS symptoms over my life. However, I do have the occasional "flareup" in some location, which often fools me into thinking it might be physical. At that time I always consult with Sarno's books.
When I was first introduced to TMS, I was trying to get over bad back pain. I suffered for months before I read MBP. Believing that I could not cause injury, I got real inspired and went out and played tennis for 2 hours trying my best to ignore the pain. After returning home, unable to sit up straight, I called Sarno and pretty much gave him an earful for suggesting that you could not hurt yourself. Even though I eventually recovered, I'm not sure to this day, whether I somehow injured a "susceptible" area that afternoon.
I've since battled my way through pain eventually being able to "rise above it". However, I'll never forget that day playing tennis, where my pain reached NEW levels. My only other incidence of "intractable" pain, was a case of ITB pain at the knee. Again, perhaps because we are programed to see tendonitis as a "repetative motion" injury, for me at least it was difficult to "walk out of".
Regards,
Doug |
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ssjs
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 20:30:53
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there was a point when my back was so bad and my sciatia so consuming, that not only was I in tremendous pain, but my foot was also paralyzed. I couldn't move it at all. Dr.Sarno sent me to a neurologist...just to make sure I was ok since it was a totally new symptom...this was almost 20 years ago.
I had a cat scan done and the neurologist was not to pleased with what he saw and wanted me to get some shots into my spine before, as he said, it was "too late"
Dr. Sarno saw those same films and said I was fine.
So with my flopping paralyzed foot...I started running the next day.
The neurologist...the one that Dr. Sarno recommended said he absolutly didn't agree with Sarno, I wasn't fine, but at the least, I should get physical therapy.
As I said, I started running, and have been fine ever since.
So with all the chiropractors, and neurologists, and friends of mine, and regular Drs telling me to be careful and spend the rest of my life not picking up my kids, and bending the "right way", I pulled myself together and went for psychotherapy and took Sarno to heart.
I couldn't have been in worse shape. Yet when I pushed...I was cured.
Sandy |
Edited by - ssjs on 03/10/2006 20:32:15 |
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Allan
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2006 : 17:45:33
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ssjs, you are right on target!
When I was in pain, I was sure that I was doing damage somehow, aggravating something. I had sciatica also and is it ever painfull.
Now that I am free of pain, there was obviously no damage.
Spooky, isn't it?
Allan. |
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ssjs
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2006 : 21:14:03
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Allen
yea. it's spooky to me that doctors have scared the crap and freedom out of people and and even my (ex)chiropractor told me i'd be sorry if i stopped seeing him...and how does a person deal with these fears if they don't have the proper support? IF THEIR OWN DOCTORS, WHO THEY RELY ON FOR GUIDANCE ARE PULLING THE RUG OUT FROM UNDER THEM?
I can go on and on.
Sandy |
Edited by - ssjs on 03/11/2006 21:16:19 |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2006 : 21:30:36
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would you not then consider these body parts to be in a "weakened" state?
Keep in mind that Dr. Sarno doesn't say that TMS doesn't effect or doesn't temporarily change your physical body. TMS does and that's why the pain is real. In the big picture the changes are temporary, minor and 100% reversable. That's why TMS is benign because it doesn't really harm you. Its easy to think the "damage" is real because our brains are wired to equate pain levels with physical damage. Learning about TMS is unlearning this conditioning and our conditioned responses to TMS-related pain.
Take care, -Stryder |
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salamander
85 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2006 : 01:58:06
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Thanks Stryder, well said...what I wanted to hear.
Having had tendonitis TMS, I've often wondered if I excercised the tendon too much if I risked doing "damage" to a already "weakened" tendon. I suppose that like you said, the tissue is only affected in a relatively minor way, despite the often intense pain. It is certainly one of the most difficult concepts to grasp, because the pain certainly works you're mind over. Like most people, I've been conditioned to stop activities if they cause pain. When it comes to TMS, it would seem that pain is an indicater to work it harder.
I will certainly endeavor to challenge the symptoms more in the future.
Regards,
Doug |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 19:05:43
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quote:
Originally posted by salamander
When I was first introduced to TMS, I was trying to get over bad back pain. I suffered for months before I read MBP. Believing that I could not cause injury, I got real inspired and went out and played tennis for 2 hours trying my best to ignore the pain. After returning home, unable to sit up straight, I called Sarno and pretty much gave him an earful for suggesting that you could not hurt yourself. Even though I eventually recovered, I'm not sure to this day, whether I somehow injured a "susceptible" area that afternoon.
Salamander, (I hope you're available) I came across this most inspiring thread tonight, and I gotta know more details about the phone call..lol..
How did he handle getting an earfull?..did he stick to his guns? was he taken back? Are you a patient of his? Ive called half a dozen times trying to think of clever ways for his most polite secretary  to patch me thru but she won't because I'm in upstate NY. |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2007 : 12:36:56
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Dr. Sarno's books say (or he may have told me during my visit) it is MILD oxygen deprivation--in the 5-10% range. How can that be harmful??
-Lori |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2007 : 14:46:43
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| If it weren't harmless, Sarno wouldn't have been able to practice lo these many years . . . |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2007 : 20:11:48
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Over 11,000 TMS patients over the past 3 decades and not one person died or hurt themselves by resuming normal physicl activity.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." It's all you need to know in order to recover. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 07/02/2007 20:12:03 |
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How does Sarno know TMS is harmless?
