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karenthepas
Canada
5 Posts |
 Posted - 05/07/2007 : 15:39:20
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Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum and fairly new to the idea of TMS. Have had ongoing lower back and L leg/buttock pain since Sept/06. Have recently read "Healing Back Pain" by Dr Sarno and could possibly be a candidate for TMS, I think. Was told in Nov 06 I have 2 bulging discs causing my lower back pain but in Jan of this year the pain appeared in my L upper leg/buttock area also. Have done all the usual stuff, 2 chiropractors, massage therapist, 2 physiotherapists and have been using the "Rebuild Your Back" exercises suggested by Dean Moyer on RYB.com for about 4 months now. Not getting much worse but seem to be unable to make this ongoing leg pain go away whatever I do. I swim 4 times/week but seem to be unable to go back to my original exercise routine of treadmill and aerobic exercises without making the leg pain worse. Some days are good and some are really bad, not enough to incapacitate me but enough to depress me totally !! I've always been a fit, healthy person and can't understand why I'm just not getting any better.
After reading Dr Sarno's book, I must say I don't seem to have any deep down reasons for anger or problems in my past but I am a perfectionist and always want to do things the absolute right way.
Does this make me TMS sufferer ? How do I know ? And if I am how do I proceed ? I'm not sure HBP makes it that clear ?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated,
Thanks-Karen |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 17:16:33
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The profile you described - albeit very limited- certainly points towards all the classic symptoms of TMS. I suggest you read the psychology chapter of Healing Back Pain and highlight those areas which you feel resonate with you. Take your time and read slowly and use a highlighter. Tell us a but more about your:
Upbringing
Personality type
Current stressors
Don't be too quick to dismiss childhood rage as that which we most dismiss is usually the culprit.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 17:28:32
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| Having read all of Sarno's books, listened to his audio, scoured lots of threads here, my own experiences, In my opinion, your symptoms are "un-remarkable". In otherwords, from your post, you're a typical TMS'r. Welcome aboard. Start journaling, and keep posting here till ya find what your'e repressing. |
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wharrison
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 18:41:30
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I think the perfectionist trait is enough to really consider TMS. Perfectionism is a really tough trait to have; it is constantly battering away at us. I think one could have only this one trait of all the ones Sarno describes and have TMS generated pain.
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karenthepas
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 10:09:40
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Where will I find out how to journal properly ? Have I missed it in HBP ? Not really sure how to proceed.
THanks for replying to my post so quickly, this is obviously an active forum.
Karen |
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Jeff
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 10:49:08
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| This may sound like an odd suggestion, but I recommend you follow through with your doctors' visits and do any further tests they think may be appropriate (within reason and budget, of course). It helps to accept TMS that you can rule out other possible physical causes. I was only able to embrace TMS after I spent many months going to doctors and having tests done. Looking back, if I had discovered Sarno earlier in the process, I think I would have rejected him. I'm glad I discovered his books only after having exhausted conventional medical options. |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 16:25:10
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as for journaling, I purchase little notebooks and blue ink "gel" pens. I just write down the date/time, and go nuts writing as fast as I can all my thoughts no matter how crazy. Even if I can't read what I write (which I have trouble with when I go back and try read it ) which serves 2 things. I want all my thoughts down so I can look back on it and not miss anything, and it may make it hard for others to bother reading it if it got in the wrong hands . |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 17:49:28
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If you do some searches for journaling, lots of useful topics from here will turn up. Also, Dr. Schechter in LA sells a journaling workbook that some have found useful.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Shary
147 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 21:21:51
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| Karen, there's no such thing as a proper way to journal. Just do what works best for you. It can be as simple as pouring your thoughts out onto a piece of paper or into the computer. Some of us have journaled right on this forum. The important thing is not to make a big deal out of it. Just find some quiet time, get started, and the rest will follow. Have faith in yourself |
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kelvin
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 23:08:57
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quote:
Originally posted by karenthepas
Where will I find out how to journal properly ? Have I missed it in HBP ? Not really sure how to proceed.
THanks for replying to my post so quickly, this is obviously an active forum.
Karen
Karen,
Dr. Sarno doesn't actually use the word "journaling" in his books. He talks about making lists. However, journaling is the most common term used for that.
Go to this link: http://www.etex.net/kelving
and download one of these:
Daily TMS exercise and journaling guide – Acrobat Reader version (pdf)
Daily TMS exercise and journaling guide – Microsoft Word version (doc) Use this version if you have Microsoft Word installed and prefer to do your daily reading and journaling on a computer. Includes instructions on how to “password protect” the document for privacy.
Hope this helps,
Kelvin |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 12:07:29
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quote:
Originally posted by karenthepas
Where will I find out how to journal properly ? Have I missed it in HBP ? Not really sure how to proceed.
THanks for replying to my post so quickly, this is obviously an active forum.
Karen
Nancy Selridge's section on how to journal for TMS patients is quite helpful.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
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karenthepas
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 08:06:51
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Thanks for the replys guys, have downloaded the lists/journals and have begun. Will see where this leads me. Even if it doesn't help my leg pain, don't think I will be doing myself any harm by puting my thoughts down on paper. May even be useful for other stuff.
Karen |
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jst
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 08:15:49
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Karen, I strongly believe that as much as you face, acknowledge, and allow yourself to feel what emotions you might be afraid to feel, your pain will go away. Every time you feel the symptoms, just ask yourself what emotions, feelings, or thoughts these symptoms might be trying to distract you from.
As you acknowledge the feelings, you will start to come to peace with yourself and the pain will fade into nothingness, leaving only your healthy body behind |
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jst
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 08:18:14
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| Keep in mind though that it it can take a long time, and a lot of self-questioning, before you sufficiently acknowledge and eventually resolve the repressed emotions. You just have to keep asking yourself, every MOMENT that you feel pain or other TMS equivalents, that question of what you might be respressing, of what emotions these symtomps might be designed to distract you from. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 10:42:27
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Feeling the emotions that are the source of your TMS is NOT necessary for recovery. It is a bogus assumption that you have to.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
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karenthepas
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 14:58:32
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Not sure I understand what you mean-shawnsmith. I don't have to find some hidden emotion/repressed rage to make my symptoms go away ? I thought that was the idea of journalling. My leg pain has faded this week since I found this site and started to journal but it often does that anyway, fades and then comes back, a week or so later. I have some stuff in my childhhod, the unexpected death of my father when I was 16 for instance, but I feel as though that has been dealt with and is not something I think about routinely. Sure, it makes me sad but ?angry.
Karen |
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 18:51:19
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quote:
Originally posted by karenthepas
I have some stuff in my childhhod, the unexpected death of my father when I was 16 for instance, but I feel as though that has been dealt with and is not something I think about routinely. Sure, it makes me sad but ?angry.
Karen
I thought the same thing. My father died when I was 10. I felt that I grieved at the time and I was FINE thereafter. Since then, I have returned to that time and grieved, as an adult. I figured, that should do it, right? But it's really a constant presence in your life, even if you don't think about it every day. It affects how you think and act, and what emotions arise. With each different situation or stage of life that you encouter, it will be a factor, even if it is so subtle that you don't even notice it. I think that's how all experiences shape our life, big and small.
And anger? Um, yeah! How could he--how dare he--die on you, and abandon you at such a pivotal age in your life? It's his job to BE THERE for you. And he hasn't 'been there' since--(speculating here, but you get the idea)--not for your prom, your graduation(s), your wedding, or any of the significant milestones in your life. (I know this thinking doesn't sound "rational" (his death was beyond anyone's control), but it's your inner child protesting injustices of life as she sees it.) Dig down deeper and you'll find it.
best,
ss
p.s. Shawnsmith, where do you get this 'feeling emotions is not necessary,' 'it's a myth' thing? Could you site Sarno? Why would Sarno increasingly advocate therapy for his patients if this was not a factor? I'm sure some people can be cured by simply the "knowledge penecillin," but it certainly does not seem like the majority on this board (hence, one of the main uses of the board). |
Edited by - sonora sky on 05/14/2007 19:00:32 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 20:07:14
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It is unnecessary to feel the emotions in order to bring about a recovery. The goal is to think psychologially and guess, as it were, what you think might be the source of your internal rage. The goal is to focus inwardly and not draw our attention away from the pain symtpoms. Thus the advice of Dr. Sarno to think psycholigcally Nancy Selride goes into this in more detail and I recommend her TMS book which Dr. sarno endorses.
Setting ourselves a standard that we MUST "feel the emotion in order to recover" is, for the most part, an impossible one and we doom ourselves to a cycle of defeat. The thought or belief is "I must feel something before I recover" and when you don't feel anything it is not a suprise you don't recover. The healing is not found in the "seek and ye shall find," but "seek and ye shall recover." That is, draw your attention away from the pain and focus inwardly on what you think may be the source of your rage etc. Don't worry if you can feel anything because you most likely won't.
I hope this helps.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 19:05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by sonora sky
p.s. Shawnsmith, where do you get this 'feeling emotions is not necessary,' 'it's a myth' thing? Could you site Sarno? Why would Sarno increasingly advocate therapy for his patients if this was not a factor? I'm sure some people can be cured by simply the "knowledge penecillin," but it certainly does not seem like the majority on this board (hence, one of the main uses of the board).
Hi Sonora!
I've been looking thru TDM and can't find this specifically, but throughout the treatment section Sarno talks about the unconscious and how we cannot know what is going on in there.
Here is a direct quote p 139
"I emphasize that it serves little purpose to concentrate solely on the rage itself, since except under extremely unusual circumstances it will not be expressed consciously."
Sarno also says that therapy in his clinic is typically only necessary for about 20% of his patients ... others recover without therapy. I think what Shawn was getting at is that we may never know what emotions or emotional deprivations are leading to our TMS sx, so it's not necessary to connect them with sx to get well. We do however need to do the other work that uncovers patterns of repression of negative emotions.
Karen, Check out page 144 in TDM... it talks about personality traits. Yes, being a perfectionist is a reason great enough for TMS.
Hope this helps,
>|< Penny
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
The Great and Powerful Oz |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2007 : 00:46:25
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Shawn, I'm getting a little tired of you popping into various threads continually saying that one doesn't have to feel the emotions in order to recover.
It's absolutely true -- I recovered physically before ever contacting much in the way of repressed emotion, though I had journaled on the standard suspects and gone back through some of the suppressed and conscious emotions.
But it seems from my experience over the past year that many people on this board are in the percentage of people who do need therapy or further exploration of emotions to complete recovery. Furthermore, even those of us who don't need to may find it helpful to move beyond physical recovery into emotional recovery.
Finally, while I totally believe it is true that it's not necessary for many people to feel any of the repressed feelings, I don't think it's as difficult as Sarno believes. He is a physical professional, not a therapist, so this is not his expertise. As a result, and to emphasize the basic and essential parts of the theory for recovery, he tends to stay out of this area. But many therapists believe it is both possible and healthy to contact some of our repressed emotion. I don't know that anyone ever finds all of it, but some of it is certainly accessible to many people, and dealing with it and processing it can have very positive results.
So I don't think your constant emphasis that it's not necessary is all that helpful in many cases. Some people do need that message, but others already understand it and are trying to go beyond it to other things that may be helpful and important.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Do I have TMS ?
