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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2004 : 08:11:05
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| Do any of the members think that once we are affected, or infected, by tms that it will ever totally go away? I have the sneaky suspision that we will be at war with it always. Also, do you guys not think that almost everyone is affected by it in some manner but just might not recognize the symptoms? |
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austingary
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 09:37:49
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I think TMS is one part of the mindbody landscape. Some people's body pain is all psychogenic, but I suspect that they are on one tail of the curve, as are the people who never have any psychogenic pain at all, if they exist. More common, probably, is the situation where TMS is one part of an overall pain syndrome, along with other factors, such as an original injury or chronic abuse of the body.
Just as you would never treat a wound without taking the possibility of secondary infection into consideration, it makes no sense to deal with body pain with considering the role of TMS and treating for it.
At the same time, someone who has an actual injury or has long abused his body needs to deal with those aspects of his pain as well as the TMS component.
People are likely to take away from Dr. Sarno's writings the idea that the body is impervious to the effects of modern civilization. Unfortunately, nowhere in his books does he suggest that the 400-pound man, or the person who never exercises, or the person who sits for 40 hours a week hunched over a computer monitor could possibly have any other cause of body pain than unconscious rage.
According to Dr. Sarno's books, for all their value, we are presumed to have evolved, via natural selection, so as to deal perfectly well with chairs, cars, and sitting practically motionless all day long -- not to mention the all-you-can-eat buffet.
I think too many people see the anti-TMS work as a "something-for-nothing" panacea. All they have to do is think right and their pain will dissolve away. And that's probably true for some but I suspect that, for most people, getting rid of significant body pain over the long haul also means giving serious attention to exercise, diet and how they habitually use or misuse their bodies.
Unfortunately, most people will never get beyond looking everywhere for a magic "quick fix". |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 09:46:32
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| I remember Sarno said in one of his books that he said it would be extremely rare for any one person to never have A TMS symptom. Everybody deals with TMS, they just do not know it. We know it, we have the knowledge which is the cure. Can you think about any person who does not go through life without a headache, backache, stomachache, or some kind of pain that is TMS induced? I do not see this is a lifetime battle, because that can induce panic and anxiety which can contribute to your symptoms. I personally see this as a chance to look more into my life internally and spiritualy,so I can change the things that need to be changed and learn more about myself.I think we need to take our TMS experiences and not look at them as battles but as opportunities to improve our lives. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 16:23:18
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| 2Scoops and AustinGary's posts above, are two of the best summaries of TMS ever. Everyone should read and re-read them and save them. |
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n/a
21 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 16:29:28
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quote:
Originally posted by 2scoops
I personally see this as a chance to look more into my life internally and spiritualy,so I can change the things that need to be changed and learn more about myself.I think we need to take our TMS experiences and not look at them as battles but as opportunities to improve our lives.
I second the motion on this 2scoops. If I believe something is a "battle" and will be chronically with me forever -- guess what, it will be. Watch what you are believing about TMS -- don't give it MORE power. |
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JoeW
United Kingdom
61 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 17:16:58
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| And "thirded". Don't consider that you are "infected" by TMS, but that you are one of the lucky few to have discovered a secret about the powerful effect of the mind/body relationship on health. |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 19:20:41
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| So are you guys saying that the awareness that tms is causing our symptoms can precipitate more symptoms? Inotherwords, by worring about our tms symptoms, we cause more symptoms? |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 20:29:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Susie
...by worring about our tms symptoms, we cause more symptoms?
The goal is to pay no mind to the symptoms that you know are TMS related. If you worry about them, or fear them, then yes I believe it can get worse. You can easily steer your mind to create worse and/or different TMS symptoms.
Whatever grabs your attention succeeds at its mission, be it the pain itself, or the anxiety and fear of the pain. The latter is probably more difficult to banish. |
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Sarah Jacoba
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 01:08:52
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so many things are a two edged sword. Thinking that you will always have TMS on some level obviously could doom you to a fulfillment of that prophecy: always struggling. But for me it was liberating to acknowledge that I will always have the tendency toward TMS symptoms, because, face it, TMS is me. It isnt a disease. It's an extreme manifestation of a common fact about the unconscious, and one that surfaces more in personalities like me. It's the flip side of my particular kind of intelligence: detail-oriented, sensitive, introspective, et al. I also believe that once TMS has been set off in its extreme form, by divorce or other trauma, the unconscious will be more likely to retry a once effective strategy.
The reason this thought is liberating is: in the past I was traumatized by idea that I had TMS, and terrified whenever a really good spell lapsed into a return of pain, and I mean TERRIFIED. But accepting that it will be cyclical, it will try to return, liberates me from an overwhelming sense of failure and desperation when it does.
This goes back to the gremlin thing. The gremlin is a part of the psyche, and IT'S HIS JOB TO MAKE YOU MISERABLE and he aint gonna stop. That is just what he does. I love the last page in the Taming the Gremlin book. It's a really positive, almost sunny book in its tone. But yet on the last page you see a gremlin picking a rather formidable locked manacle on his leg and saying something like "this is gonna take some time, but time is something I got" (paraphrase). You could argue: what a depressing way to end a self help book. But to me now it makes perfect sense.
To end this post on a positive note: I firmly believe, buttressed by my recent successes, that the tendency toward TMS symptoms can be kept at bay in my life, to the point that perhaps never again will I suffer like I have. However, the tendency will always be there, I'm convinced, to a strong extent. I can't be ignorant of this. I will get coasting on a nonsymptomatic wavelength and that's self-reinforcing (just as TMS is self-reinforcing) and it may last for years. But there may be illnesses or stresses in the future that TMS will try to nail me with, and I'll have to remember the clarities I've arrived at recently to get through. That's one reason I keep posting to this site and keep writing stuff for my journal! So I'll be ready and wont even begin to slip down into that swamp again.
--Sarah
"When dream and day unite" |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 09:36:01
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| To Sarah Jacoba- You pretty much say it all for me. I do believe , because of our type of personalities , we will always have the tendency for tms to sling us some symptoms. This is not fearful for me. Its simple an acknowledgement of living with the type of personality I have. For all the positive aspects of it , tms is just a minor inconvenience when you understand it. I also feel extremely fortunate to have this understanding because I feel like I now have the tools to stay well. |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 10:47:03
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May i follow Joe
"Amen"
an I fourth and fifthed it also.
kenny V's shortest post yet
quote:
And "thirded". Don't consider that you are "infected" by TMS, but that you are one of the lucky few to have discovered a secret about the powerful effect of the mind/body relationship on health.
(You know i had to say more)
This gremlin thing stumps me?
If we blame this Gremlin than doesn’t it take away from our responsibility to our actions?
Always Hope For Recovery
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Edited by - kenny V on 06/10/2004 11:00:38 |
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Carol
91 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 11:24:52
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Dr. Sarno calls the tendency toward TMS and it's equivalents a cradle to grave condition. In my experience that has been true. I have had mindbody symptoms since I was a child, and will probably have them in some form until I die. For most of my adult life, long before I had ever heard of Dr. Sarno, I was aware that many of my physical symptoms were emotionally induced. What I didn't realize was that pain could also be emotionally induced. When I had my first bout of pain, at age 60, I had a suspicion that it was stress induced due to the specific situation in my life. I asked my doctor about the possibility, and he said that pain was absolutely not stress induced and we had to find out the cause. One of the symptoms was hamstring soreness, and he questioned me at great length about how I had injured it. In fact I had done NOTHING physical that could have caused that kind of injury. I wasn't even doing my usual hiking and biking because of the personal situation.
Anyway, my point with all of this is that I don't believe those of us who tend to have mindbody symptoms will ever stop having them to some extent. The important thing is to recognize it and not obsess over the symptoms. Think about the emotional things that might be happening to you and the symptoms will be short lived.
I agree with Gary that Dr. Sarno seems to suggest that PRACTICALLY EVERYTHING is TMS induced. Of course it isn't! We do get injured on occasion, and the injuries usually cause some degree of pain. The point is that in a reasonable time they should heal and the pain should go away. But injuries are excellent TMS triggers. When the pain persists it is time to "think psychological".
Something I recently learned about myself, in addition to my perfectionist tendencies, that will trigger symptoms, is the tendency to put things off that I need to deal with, whether they involve personal interactions or things that need to be done but not necessarily right away. I tend to put these things off as long as possible, but then I worry, and I have pain. I have learned that as part of my journaling I have to list things that need to be done or situations that need to be dealt with, and then just take care of them as soon as possible. I feel so much better when I do this. Maybe some of you have the same tendencies, and don't realize that they can contribute to your pain.
Well, I have rambled on long enough. I have some things to deal with today, and I feel very good because I have made the decision to just do it!
Carol |
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Wilf
Canada
53 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 12:22:00
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| Thanks for this, Carol. By "thinking psychologically", I have been able to deal with most of my serious pain, but I still have continuous low-grade neck pain and a very reduced range of motion in my neck. You may have hit the nail on the head in my case. I, too, have a number of things that I have to do but I continuously procrastinate. I will follow your advice. |
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n/a
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 13:41:12
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Darn you Carol! 
I've been using any excuse to avoid dealing with paperwork--even TMS journaling! I am a major procrastinator but I didn't realize it had any connection to body pain but it makes sense. Procrastination gives increased mental stress as well as having a physical symptom to use as an avoidance excuse. I would assume that having perfectionistic tendencies contributes to the procrastination and other TMS'ers might have this issue.
Thank you (I guess!) for this insight. |
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Monte
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 15:31:14
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I believe if you think tms is going to be with you it sure as heck will be.
but there are so many people that are living proof that it can be eliminated and not a part of your life.
as long as you have a belief system that says, some of this is injury related,
then guess what, you are stuck with it.
good thing is, you can always change that choice and decide to get rid of it
forever. |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 16:39:17
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I believe if you think tms is going to be with you it sure as heck will be.
but there are so many people that are living proof that it can be eliminated and not a part of your life.
as long as you have a belief system that says, some of this is injury related,
then guess what, you are stuck with it.
good thing is, you can always change that choice and decide to get rid of it
forever.
I agree with you Monte, very insightful. |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 06:00:51
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quote:
good thing is, you can always change that choice and decide to get rid of it
forever.
Good stuff Monte,
Your words are flowing with energy.
I was thinking that thinking people didn't believe this statement.
Thanks
I second you scoops firsting W/ Monte
K-
Always Hope For Recovery
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Carol
91 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 07:59:18
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I would love to hear from any of you who have totally eliminated mindbody symptoms. Please keep in mind that TMS, as defined by Dr. Sarno, is only one type of mindbody symptom. He lists many equivalents. Are any of you totally free of reflux, allergies, headaches, migraines, or any of the other symptoms that plague us TMS types? Do any of you never have a pain anywhere that you have to remind yourself is TMS in order for it to disappear? If so, I may revise my belief system to think that I too can rid myself of these annoying conditions.
I did succeed in getting rid of migraines, vertigo, TMJ, and most of my body pain. I am still plagued with reflux and pollen allergies, no matter how much I try to treat them as I do TMS. Dr. Sarno himself, according to his book, still has some mindbody symptoms occasionally. He stops them instantly by thinking of what might be bothering him.
And yes - injuries do occur!!! A sprained ankle when you twist it, a dislocated shoulder, do you actually believe that these injuries do not occur? And do you not think that they will be accompanied by pain? OF course they will be! How much pain varies a lot from one individual to another, which begs the question how much of it is actually from the injury, but unquestionably some is! Then you have to go through the healing process, understanding that pain will decrease as the injury heals. If it doesn't, then you need to understand that TMS has chosen this site to get your attention.
As for my own TMS sites, none were the site of injuries, so there was nothing to heal physically. Pure TMS! I know this and have always known it. What I take exception to is the notion that ALL pain is TMS. How about pain at a surgical site? A broken bone? Come on - use some common sense in this. If you are right, and you are successful, then you should never have to deal with ANY pain at all, ever, correct? Or am I just misunderstanding your messages?
Carol |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 08:34:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol
I would love to hear from any of you who have totally eliminated mindbody symptoms.
If anyone claims this, I would not believe them. |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 09:06:23
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We are all going to be susceptible to a degree of some type of pain, but does it have to be TMS?
From my understanding Dr Sarno states that TMS and it’s equivalents is defined as manifestations that are chronic, not a temporary or short term illnesses or pains.
quote:
*Please keep in mind that TMS, as defined by Dr. Sarno, is only one type of mindbody symptom. He lists many equivalents. Are any of you totally free of reflux, allergies, headaches, migraines, or any of the other symptoms that plague us TMS types
*And yes - injuries do occur!!! A sprained ankle when you twist it, a dislocated shoulder, do you actually believe that these injuries do not occur? And do you not think that they will be accompanied by pain? OF course they will be
*Come on - use some common sense in this. If you are right, and you are successful, then you should never have to deal with ANY pain at all, ever, correct? Or am I just misunderstanding your messages?
I would like to let every one comment on these statements, but I will give two examples of differentiating between an equivalent and an actual symptom below.
Headache
1. A side effect From taking a drug or medicine
2. Hit or object falls to the head
3. The result from tired or stigmatism from the eyes
4. Result of being Sea sick
5. TMS related and induced from stress
Stomach Ache
1. A side effect from taking a drug or medicine.
2. A kick, punches, blow or fall.
3. Ate something that does not agree, virus, food poisoning.
4. Result of being Sea sick
5. TMS related and induced from stress
I thought of two more
Inhaling or exposure to solvents, adhesives and chemicals
Exposed to loud sounds without proper hearing protection
Trivia – did you know that taste and smell is one of the brains best resources for recollecting information that has been forgotten?
Always Hope For Recovery
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Edited by - kenny V on 06/11/2004 10:34:59 |
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Monte
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 11:30:30
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carol,
not sure you were asking me, but i was referring more to the
person with back, butt, hip, knee, foot, sciatica type pain, that knows it is tms
but then uses injury as a crutch as to why it still lingers.
of course there are injuries like a sprained ankle that have nothing to do with tms, but then a year later when you have ankle pain and you say yes
i know it is tms, but it is because of my old injury that i still have it and it will
always be with me now---that is what i mean when i said it will always be with you. and that is "wrong" thinking. becasue this can be eliminated.
this board, imo is the perfect example of how to
keep tms pain with you forever, at least in mind, and that of course means it's in your body as well.
susie, you are right, every person is affected with mind/body issues--that's life.
but "at war with it always" that is an interesting statement, why not make peace with it, and learn from it and change, then you can genuinely be grateful for why you had the pain. and then you can move on..
dave, you just heard from me. do i ever have a pain signal that is tms?
of course, but i choose to acknowledge it within me, myself, i'm grateful for it,
it's part of me, just as much as being happy and having goose pumps...absolutely no difference. and that takes about 3-5 seconds to recognize, acknowledge, be grateful, and then move on--get present.
but living hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, yearly with on-going chronic pain,
being at war with it, having to diagnose, discuss, analyze, interroagate, investigate, relate, ...ect. yes, you and anyone can eliminate that from your life if you choose to!
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Give up tms!?
