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JohnO
USA
63 Posts |
 Posted - 04/10/2007 : 13:36:08
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| This is JohnO (not to be confused with JohnD who posted earlier on this thread)……..The aging thing is so on target. I am 54 and feel all the same stuff you have expressed. It’s definitely a source of anger, rage, frustration and more. Although I’ve run 3 Boston Marathons in the last 3 years, I look at myself in the mirror and ask “where did it all go?” and as Art points out, the fear of knowing that mortality is inevitable, some miserable illness is lurking around the corner and will there be emotional / physical support is terrifying. I am sure that this is a lot of my TMS problem although I am conscious of it so I don’t think any of this is in the unconscious so am not sure why I am still having some problems. Remember what Sarno says in “Mind Body”………”Aging is Enraging” and he even admits it affected him. |
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vnwees
64 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 14:31:02
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hi John O;
My best guess is, like Sarno says, we're not consciously aware of just HOW ANGRY we are, in this case about our aging issues. I wonder how much I'm not aware of and if the conscious part just tips the iceberg. That could explain it, couldn't it? That it's the part we're repressing that creates a lot of the symptoms? Sometimes I pine away for a simple life, where the community cares for and values its elders, where you can express your feelings when you have them, when just being myself is what's expected of me. What have we created???
Vicki |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 14:53:46
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Vicki,
I think what John O quoted "aging is enraging" from Dr. Sarno is so true..I am dealing with that issue as well, like I mentioned in my original post here..I am still in my 40's but my late 40's and I am milking that as long as I can! I am petrified of getting older and especially in my singing career looks/stage presence are very important..Thank God I have good genes and since I never smoked, haven't sun bathed in a long time, etc..I am still looking alot younger then I am..God help me once I do look the age I actually am now! Yikes! As an artist/painter, my appearance doesn't matter,,in fact older artists are more respected..but as a singer, it does matter, big time..My b/f and I did gigs with several bands a few months ago and thankfully he also is blessed to look alot younger then 48..People think we are in our 30's, thank the Lord! I don't mean to sound superficial but in that career of mine I cannot help but be concerned about aging..
I completely disagree, as I mentioned in another thread, that we are all definitely, positively destined to die from some horrible disease..That just isn't true and I for one am going to do all I can to continue to eat right, take vitamins, antioxidants, exercise, etc..My main concern with my health is the stress I am under..I have low blood pressure generally, but the top number was higher then ever b4 recently, the bottom was only 73, just fine..I know the top one can go up temporarily from stress and I have plenty of it..
I am very happy for you, Vicki that you had a good laugh...Laughter is wonderful medicine...If you really want to laugh go rent "What About Bob" with Bill Murray..it is a screamer! I also love Woody Allen's "Hannah and her sisters" wonderful, deep and hilarious film like most of his..He talks about mortality and he plays a hypochondriac in the film...Wrldtrv, you should see that one too..I have watched both of those films over and over..
Norman Cousins cured him self of an incurable disease just with laughter! It is amazing how our bodies can heal!
Hugs and God bless,
Karen |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 14:54:08
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Regarding aging, I don't know of anyone getting any younger with the passing years. We will eventually all return to dust except for Walt Disney and Ted Williams.
I compete in the Tennis Senior's Age Group Tounaments. It's like masters swimming or running. In tennis it's divided up into 5 year divisions. Every 5 years I get to be a junior again. The guys who figured this system out knew what they were doing. I only compete for the record, against players who have been facing the pressures of gravity for the same amount of time with me.
If you are comparing yourself to youngsters, you may as well hang up your sneaks, because all things being equal, they are gonna' kick your butt everytime.
I know of many Senior tennis players actively competing, traveling around the world for tounaments, dancing at the player party and very sharp in the mind. There's nothing more fun for me than playing against a National Champion lady in the 70's, like Hattie Somerville and getting beaten 2-6, by her.
I recall Ken Beer recently deceased at 102 who played nearly up to the day he died. I bumped into Ken at a Senior Tounament a few years back at the Tounament of Lanterns in Pacific Grove, near Carmel. He was a youthful 98 at the time. He has his wife with Alzheimer's
watching him from the car parked along the court. He was giving away a few age groups playing down into the 85's with the juniors, since there weren't any entrants in the 90's or 95's to compete with him.
He asked the tournament director to help him make a hotel res for him and the missus at the Motel 6, because he couldn't hear so good anymore. Sure enough, he got a room, on a summer weekend on the Monterey Peninsula.
That was one of the bravest things I'd ever witnessed. Chatted with him in the locker room and he was in very fit shape! Ken Beer a true role model for those concerned with the passing of time.
some of my favorite excerpts from 'TDM' : http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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JohnO
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 14:54:43
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| Good points, Vicki........Maybe I think I have the rage about aging all spilled out in the conscious but maybe it is more deep rooted than that. Do you think trying to get more anger about that released is a good way to go? I also get bouts of unexplained depression and hopelessness like others have expressed here and it becomes debilitating for periods of time but the key is to just let it ride and it goes away. I think, according to Sarno, it is the unconscious trying to divert from bad emotions surfacing. What do you think? |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 14:55:38
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Vicki,
I forgot to address your advice to get into a group..I love groups..I go to a grief group at a local church which helps alot with all the losses to death I have had..Have you tried any of those? They can be so healing...I am checking into some local groups..I found one but they expect you to pay dues and become a member..I will keep looking..thanx for the suggestion...:)) |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 15:04:32
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Hey Tom,
Thanx for your post about Ken Beers and the like..That is inspiring..I see some much older people in my gym, 80's even 90's and they have incredible bodies and some are lifting more weights then people half their age! In general, us humans are living MUCH longer and MUCH healthier then we did in years gone by...I miss tennis sooooo much..I have injured my poor right knee so many times that I am afraid of all the twisting and turning..I am putting the word "TENNIS" on my dream/vision board because i am DETERMINED to heal all the way...Many quantum physisists (sp?) are talking these days about what we are truly made of and the power of our mind to heal and more...We practically get a brand new body on a cellular level every 7 years! Yippie gotta love that! They are coming out with more and more anti aging things to take internally and apply externally...So I am not gonna go down easy! Maybe when my knee is better and I am visiting your beautiful part of the country we can have a game..I am sure you will beat me, I am not that good..but I sure love playing!
Take care,
Karen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 15:07:18
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Hi again Vicki,
Just wanted to tell you that I wrote you above too..Not just the little note about women's groups but a longer one..Didn't want it to get lost in the sauce...Let me know if you have seen those 2 movies or if you rent them, tell me what you think..They always crack me up!
Hugs,
Karen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 15:16:09
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PSS...lol...Now I am laughing because I re-read a reply to you, Vicki wherein I was responding to your comment about getting back on the horse...there was a typo...
I meant to say, "I want to get back on the horse ALONG with you" Instead I wrote "I want to get back on the horse ALONE with you"
You must have wondered if I was gay?? hehe..
Well, I am still depressed and dealing w/ alot but all the supportive replies on here did help me, thank you all who wrote to me very much!...I had a little chuckle now too, about my typo, and it does help to laugh..Sometimes we just need to take life minute by minute... |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 15:42:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
Hey Tom,
...Many quantum physisists (sp?) are talking these days about what we are truly made of and the power of our mind to heal and more...We practically get a brand new body on a cellular level every 7 years! Yippie gotta love that!
...Maybe when my knee is better and I am visiting your beautiful part of the country we can have a game..I am sure you will beat me, I am not that good..but I sure love playing!
Take care,
Karen
Hi Karen,
It's been 7 years, WHERE'S MY NEW HIP?
No worries Karen, I wouldn't run you. I wouldn't play you straight up until you've had a chance to warm-up properly. It takes me about two hours to feel loose.
It takes about two weeks to get one's timing back after a long lay-off. I enjoy just hitting the fuzzy little ball. I recall when Thomas Muster got hit by a car and was rehabing, he sat on a wood-crate to practice.
If you come to frisco, look me up, there's some public courts at Dimaggio playground near my hotel.
Cheers,
tt
some of my favorite excerpts from 'TDM' : http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 15:58:02
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Will do, Tom...I used to also love and still do, badmitton..(sp?)..what a wonderful game..I have a competitive side enen when playing Pac Man...hehe...Guess i have to work on that! I also love ping pong and chess...I had such a blast just watching the chess players in Union Square in NYC recently..They are amazing...The day I play tennis I will be a happy camper! Do you take glucosamine or Wobenzym for your hip?
Wobensym is very helpful and doesn't hurt the stomach..It helps my knee..and sometimes my neck..Although my neck is truly TMS, that is obvious..
Hugs and God bless,
Karen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 16:32:03
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| PS...I was just thinking about Northern California...I absolutely love that part of the country...I have an awful fear, (phobia) of earthquakes and that is literally the ONLY reason I haven't moved there...Although my people are in NY/NJ, Vegas, Florida and Texas, i have always wanted to live near San Francisco..What an amazing city..And art wise, I would have tons of opportunities...Oh well, one can dream..QUite honestly, I would probably have to go to years of hypnosis b4 I conquered the earthquake fear...My dream is to retire in Europe one day, so NY is alot closer then SF...In any case, you are so blessed to live up there! |
Edited by - Singer_Artist on 04/10/2007 16:33:57 |
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vnwees
64 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 16:46:43
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Oh my god, Karen, I'm laughing so hard I've got tears running down my face! I didn't catch that typo. I'm printing out this thread to reread and savor later. You'll bring me lots more laughs. Thank god for typos, eh? The first time I saw What About Bob, it hit something inside of me in an unexpected, painful way...something to do with trying and trying to convince people something bad was happening and no one believing me or making light of something that was really bothering me. My poor husband thought it was a riot, but it brought up anger and frustration in me. Weird, huh? Then years later I watched it again and thought is was very funny, without any of the unpleasant stuff. I'll try Woody Allen again. Used to love his work, then felt like he was a pervert for marrying his step daughter and I sort of went on strike. Probably shouldn't let things like that bother me. Thanks for the tips. Life's too short...
JohnO;
In my case I do try to release my anger in whatever ways I can...talking (dumping) with trusted friends, screaming in the car occasionally (tho not at the red light with people next to me), seeing a counselor as needed, letting myself cry, writing, etc. Sometimes I feel like a big ball of anger, but other times I realize that I'm just getting more IN TOUCH with the repressed/supressed anger I have...not necessarily getting more angry. When I see it that way, if feels healthier, more productive, like I'm accomplishing something important. I, too, get bouts of scary depression and feelings of hopelessness, but the more I work on myself, the more bearable it becomes. Maybe that's not the best word...it's like having a headache...you know it'll pass and you'll feel better. Just ride it out, like a wave. I absolutely believe that what sarno says is true about the old bean (older lady talk for brain, in case you're young) trying to distract me from unpleasant emotions trying to surface, so I immediatly try to focus on what may be bothering me, then just try to move on and ignore what my brain is attempting to do. I also frequently yell at my brain, like "Knock it off...I know what you're trying to do and I will not allow it." I am retraining my brain...rewiring, etc. and it definitly helps. To me it seems that anger, depression and fear are all equivilants of tms and I sarnosize them exactly the same way I do for the pain. Still, when I'm at worst, it can be very scary. It is improving, tho. Good luck, JohnO!
Karen; 12 step groups can be very helpful and supportive and they're free. I've been in one for over 20 years and, yes, they're all a bit nuts, but who isn't? (Just read some of the things people write here!) But they've saved my ass on many occasions. And you folks, too, have helped me a lot. Vicki |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 17:15:06
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Vicki,
Those kind of deep belly laughs where you cry are the BEST!!! I think they are as good as sex and chocolate...hehe...I am glad you like What About Bob the second time..I cannot help but love Woody Allen even when he screws up..I think Love and Death, and of course, Annie Hall are completey works of genius..He is also good with drama like Interiors and Manhattan...
Here are some more of my favorite comedies..Liar Liar, My Cousin Vinny (especially when they are trying to sleep and the owl is hooting..LOL..I literally embarassed my friends in the movie theatre because I couldn't stop laughing out loud!)...I also love Planes, Trains and Automobiles, and My Blue Heaven, Father of the Bride, Parenthood, Bruce Almighty, Deuce Bigelow, All of Me, and believe it or not old re-runs of the Little Rascals and Mr. Ed...Here's a good one that might make you laugh again.....
When i was in Italy in 1989 I was in my hotel room and I turned on the TV set..it was late at night...Guess what was on..? Mr. Ed in ITALIAN!!!! OMG I was dying laughing all by myself, it was BLiss! Can you imagine Mr. Ed talking to Wilbur in ITALIAN with an accent and all....LOL!? |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 17:24:17
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Vicki,
I keep forgetting things and end up having to write twice..sorry bout that...Regarding 12 steps groups..they are awesome..Funny thing I used to almost wish i were an alcoholic so i could go to AA! The program is sooo powerful...I became a substance abuse counselor after graduating college..did post graduate work and certification..My clients used to go to 12 steps meetings and i went with them..I also led my own support groups when i was working in an outpatient facility..Groups are POWERFUL and I feel less alone in them...THe 12 step groups i have gone to are CODA, Al-Anon and OA..I took friends to AA and loved it..OA is very clickish here in Vegas..and it's impossible to get an available sponsor..really annoying..I found myself binging on M & M's and Haagan Daz after a meeting! The OA groups in NY are fantastic, I miss them...
Maybe i will check out CODA here, codependents anonymous for those who don't know what CODA stands for...Thanks for the suggestion!
Now Baby steps to the elevator!!! hehe..Hey, remember that scene when Richard Dreyfus' adorable son was talking about death? He and Bill Murray were having a PJ party and he was saying he was terrifed about death..It is a weird subject but he was sooo cute the way he said.."You are going to die, I am going to die,,etc. etc.." ANd then Richard D. came in asking for Peace and QUiet and Bill M. and the cute child said "I'll be Quiet and I'll be Peace.." I practically have lines memorized from that hilarious film.. I think i have seen it too much and will have to wait several years b4 watching it again...Norman Cousins was onto something regarding laughter being sooo healing for the body/mind...I am in a better mood just chatting with you about these funny movies!
Hugs,
karen |
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vnwees
64 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 17:40:21
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Karen;
You're killing me here. Mr. Ed in Italian!!!??? God, it's great to laugh! At the risk of veering away from TMS subject matter, I loved the British comedy series, "Father Ted". Not everyone's cup of tea, but you made me think of it and I have the dvd's (a gift years ago from my son--not the dead one--sorry, you've really got me going...) Sometimes you just have to laugh. Speaking of silly Italian stories, a few days after we buried my son (it gets better) my husband said let's get away and drive up the coast for dinner. We stopped at this nice place with lovely ocean views and ordered. You can imagine we were both as out of it as could be and in total shock, etc. After what seemed like a really long time, the waiter came back and, in his heavy (fake?) Italian accent told us that, although my dinner was ready, my husband's dinner (fish) had "jumped out of the pan and committed suicide". The moment was so insane, since Jake had committed suicide. We laughed hysterically (instead of sobbing uncontrollably, I guess) and coulnd't stop. I'm sure the poor guy thought we were insane, which we were. My whole life was so surreal, but somehow it broke the mood for a moment. I needed to know it was still possible to laugh. Life's bizarre, eh? Vicki |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 17:46:33
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OMG Vicki,
I can't believe that story about the fish..holy cow..or rather..holy fish! That is too weird...I don't know if you believe in God or not..but I would take that as Angelic intervention...It is so surreal that it seems so much like Divine intervention...At the same time, I cannot tell you how sorry i am that you endured such suffering..You are a very brave woman! And the fact that you can laugh would only make your son very happy..I am sure he wants you to enjoy the rest of your life!
Don't get me started on British humor...hehehe..They are the funniest ever! I cannot believe i forgot to include that in my list! I LOVE many Monty Phythons (not the blasphemous ones, of course..) I also LOVE "Faulty Towers", "Keeping up Appearances" and "Absolutely Fabulous.." Did you ever see the Faulty Towers with the rat?? I haven't seen the series you mentioned but would love to! British humor is the best...
Hey we might get in trouble for going off topic..but hey..this is fun! And can't we have some fun along with all the pain and suffering once in awhile!? |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 17:54:09
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| PS...I have to keep w/ my tradition of writing twice, lol...Isn't it so ironic that I started out a thread about depression and now both of us are laughing..For all we know, maybe others are too! Life can really be not so bad after all..It made me happy to make you laugh! |
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vnwees
64 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 18:20:32
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| Dr Sopher, in his book To Be Or Not To Be, (who studied w/ dr. sarno), talks about celebrating our successes. I'd say, considering where we both started this morning, that we are experiencing some success in our recovery from physical (my headaches nearly gone!) and emotional pain (laughing definitly helped me today). So thank you for all who indulge the brief off topic words. I've survived another day! Vicki |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 18:27:04
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Awesome Vicki! Soo glad to hear your headache is gone..My knee pain is quiet now too..The neck is still tight but i am hopeful..Thank you so much for this fun conversation that was so healing! I don't think anyone will have a problem with our little diversion! Great chatting with you!! BTW, loved Dr. Sopher's book, it really helped me! I should re-read it!
Hugs,
K |
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Depression, help needed..
