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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
 Posted - 03/27/2007 : 15:27:01
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Hi All,
Does anyone else on here ever wonder what all the displaced aggression is about with us TMSers...It is rampant on this forum...I know, because I have had it directed at me from time to time...I have seen sooo many fights on here between members and when the one I was involved in just FINALLY ended in PEACE...Helen B. decides to write a nasty/sarcastic little tidbit about me clearly designed to hurt me, at the end of the infamous thread...It's almost as if she is deliberately trying to stir the pot on purpose...My lesson is to learn to THINK before I WRITE and to stop personalizing people's opinions about me, in general...Hindsight is 20-20 and I wish I didn't even honor Helen B with a response...That kind of blatant hostility doesn't deserve any attention...
Her timing was particularly interesting because she didn't say one word on the thread until Art and I had made amends and peace was established, all the way around...Even Art and TT were having warm words between them! I was happy to see that...And if I indirectly had any influence on that happening, it was all worth it...I really do like ALL of you and I am VERY GRATEFUL especially for all the help I have gotten from my friends on here...In addition, when I was layed up for months with TMS last year, TT and Art helped me ALOT....And for that I will ALWAYS be grateful...Both have some wonderful insight on TMS and how it can run our lives...
THe TMS Gremlin is attacking me in a major way right now in multiple locations in my body...I would never blame another person for my pain, but at the same time,,,I am wondering more and more if this increase in neck, back, foot and chest pain is related to all the recent controversy on here...I was hoping it was just sore muscles/tendons from starting to work out again, two days ago...Who knows...All I know is that I WISH and PRAY that we could all just get along and support each other in a POSITIVE, uplifting way...I abhor arguments and hostility, especially the sarcastic, passive aggressive variety...
Wishing everyone well,
Karen
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 16:16:43
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If you think this is bad, you oughta see your average internet messageboard. It either confirms that everyone in the entire world has TMS, or that the aggression level here has nothing to do with TMS, depending on how you look at it.
It's basically the internet thing. When you can't see the person you're talking to, you're more likely to go ahead and say something that face-to-face you wouldn't say because it would provoke too much conflict. And tone of voice and related cues are not available, nor is the immediate kind of back-and-forth that you get from saying something to someone and promptly having them say "Oh, that's not what I meant, sorry."
I've been here and there in different internet communities and there's always the occasional spat, 99% of the time mostly meaningless, or based of a legitimate difference of opinion that goes personal and thus becomes meaningless. You're best off in the long run not caring too much. Not that I always am able to practice that type of detachment. :-)
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 17:40:40
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There's no doubt in my mind that people under the cover of Internet anonymity say things they'd never dare utter in person....
I play Internet poker, and the level of discourse is absolutely savage...Calling your fellow player a name like "moron" is considered pretty tame..
I actually think that compared to most venues, this place is a tea party...The level of discussion is quite high, the tone generally courteous and kind...I do not think that TMS'ers are more hostile than other people in general. In my experience, we tend to be sensitive goodists...But that cuts two ways..Our very sensitivity can lead to angry over reacting, just as a kind of a defensive measure...
Also Karen, since you brought up the other thread, please try to understand that your general style is going to invite criticism. Right or wrong, it's just inevitable. Best to know that going in. There are people who are violently opposed to using forums for the purpose of self promotion. I'm not saying that's what you did. In fact, I'll take you at your word when you say you weren't...But you must know going in that there's always going to be a vocal few who will not take your word for that...Best to own that, and be prepared for it next time. Since you've said you understood this point previously, it shouldn't surprise you. People can't look into your heart, they can only read your words...
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 22:15:02
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Thank you ACL and Art,
Your wise and supportive reply is very appreciated...You aren't going to believe what happened to me? I was feeling all achey earlier today and attributed it to TMS or working out too hard at the gym...I got myself Very upset when I saw Helen's post and felt a surge of extreme tightness and pain up the back of my head after reading it...
I don't know why I have to be so darn overly sensitive..it's ridiculous of me to get that bent out of shape from criticism...Anyway...I started feeling chills..very cold and took a hot shower to try to calm down and warm up...After 30 minutes or so it dawned on me that i might have a fever so I took my temperature and sure enough...101 degrees...I cannot eat ANY food and the thought of it makes me totally sick..Thankfully and amazingly, the temp is now down to 100 and i am feeling better...My doctor friend told me to try some oil of oregano and it seemed to work! I still feel sick but no where near as bad as a few hours ago...
The bad news is that I had the dry heaves very bad and I am worried about my neck! I really tightened up...I have GOT to tell myself that it's only TMS and i didn't hurt myself...GEEZ LOUISE i feel like i am becoming a serious hypochondriac these days..Always thinking the worst and always in fear...I might pick up some Sam-E for anxiety/depression..I am just not myself...Anyway..i am sooo happy to be on track with you again Art...I really value you as a friend...And you guys are right...I am setting myself up when I start a post like this one on the internet...People cannot read my heart unless they know me...Art, you do know me pretty well from our past email exchanges...And ACL...You are the greatest too! You always help me so much!I really have to chill out and learn to let things roll off my back more...what a hard lesson to learn..
Thanks and lots of love to both of you and all my buddies on here...
~Karen |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 07:49:38
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I think the problem is a bit different on a board like this than on a more detached and impersonal internet space. It seems people discussing such personal things tend to get a false impression of the sort of relationship they have with others here. These people are your comrades in TMS, but they are not your friends in any normal sense of that term -- except in a very, very few circumstances, generally where people have met face to face. For all you know, the folks here are writing cannibal cooking blogs in their spare time. You just have no idea of the depths of personalities you are dealing with.
Really, the relationships in a space like this are not real world relationships, and taking them seriously and worrying about being liked or respected here is a waste of time. It results in defensiveness and people who seriously twist and misinterpret the words of others in order to try and make themselves look better to their imaginary "friends" in a world where communication opportunities are seriously handicapped. I like (as far as I know) and respect (in varying degrees) many people here...but you are not my friends.
I know some people want to believe these relationships are real, and I hesitated to say anything for that reason. But the truth is I don't think it is healthy for those of you who are doing this. Seek normal non-TMS help and respect among those you see face to face. This is not the real world and these are not normal healthy interactions if taken too seriously. |
Edited by - alexis on 03/28/2007 10:48:09 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 08:46:48
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| AMEN |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 09:06:28
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While I agree this is a completely abstract world, where names stand in for actual people, and where little black squiggles on the computer screen take the place of actual conversation, our reactions to this world are indisputably real...There's immense value in that, if only we pay heed.
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 11:25:54
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Alexis,
You make some very good points..and again..I appreciate your support on here..:) But, I must admit after reading this that I feel like a bit of an *ss for blubbering affection everywhere in this non-real world...I feel exposed, in other words, and it's uncomfortable...
I have no one to 'blame' but myself...If blame is even the right word...I have been told that because I am a musician and artist, my right brain is over-active, hence the passion and over-sensitivity I feel, even in cyberspace..I also think that I am too trusting and a bit immature in alot of ways, sort of stuck in my adolescence, b4 many painful changes happened in my life...
Unfortunately for me, alot of my dearest, long term friends live thousands of miles away...I have a few very close friends here in Vegas, and I am so grateful for that, of course..But my long distance friends and I are forced to resort to phone and internet to keep the friendships alive...So it is not over the top for me to sort of bond with people I haven't met face to face...
I seem to feel people's energies on the internet (or I think I do) pretty well and can usually tell if I like someone through cyberspace...I have met many friends that I initially connected with online, and rarely has my gut feeling about them been wrong..In fact, I have several friendships that began, even for months, on the internet b4 meeting in person...We live in a computerized world, indeed...
On the flip side, I have met a couple of people face to face, after writing for months, and we did not click...So one really never knows until you spend time together in person, I agree...I am just a very open person and I pretty much wear my heart on my sleeve...I do my best to be real and honest and I assume everyone else is too...That is how I get hurt sometimes, and that is why I refer to myself as somewhat emotionally immature...Hey, at least I admit it..that is a start toward change!
Art,
You are a person I bonded to online, once we graduated for awhile there to regular email...I feel we supported each other and were developing a nice cyber friendship...If I re-read any of our past emails, they were filled with support and kindness toward one another, and for that I am grateful...You are a sensitive person as well...a fellow artist (writer), maybe that is why...And I know you meant no harm to me with your original posts on the other thread...But it just never seems to end, and whether you meant to or not, I did get hurt and insulted by the adjectives you used to describe me, who wouldn't?
Couldn't you have just thanked Helen (on the other thread) for her support? Did you have to go into such detail about me being a self involved Diva, etc?...I am still a bit raw over the other adjectives you used for me (inappropriately in my view) and now I am reading more...You say it in a sugar coated way now, but you are still making it clear that you are not approving of my actions...I still feel judged by you and VERY overly analyzed...
You even took back an apology in a way, or rather, clarified that you were sorry for hurting me, not sorry for confronting me about my grave mistake of self promotion...You said AGAIN that I tried to SELL my art on here previously..and that was NOT my intention in the other post in the past either!!!! In the previous post I was JUST EXCITED TO FINALLY HAVE MY VERY OWN WEBSITE AND WANTED TO SHARE THIS WITH ALL MY CYBER FRIENDS OR ACQUAINTENCES...IT WAS NOT TO SELF PROMOTE FOR GOODNESS SAKES!!!! IT WAS JUST SHARING! I AM NOT A BLATANT LIAR, I HAVE NO PROBLEM ADMITTING MY SHORTCOMINGS OR WHEN I AM WRONG...BUT WHEN I AM MISUNDERSTOOD TO THIS LEVEL I HAVE TO SPEAK UP! You say you believe me, but then I really don't think you do... And Shawn and several others had NO PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING MY TRUE INTENTIONS and even enjoyed that I shared my art with them....Now I am not going to lie and say that I am not happy when a painting sells, what artist isn't?? But you are making me out to be nothing but a BS spammer on here...And I have contributed to this forum as a fellow TMSer for a long time!
I was just happy to FINALLY share some good news with everyone about being on the cover of the magazine, etc...It was an innocent thing...not some CLANDESTINE PLOY to sell my paintings!!! This is really getting sickening...and I am still healing from this flu bug and probably overly emotional right now, I admit that...But I cannot help what I feel...I feel angry again and I don't want to be, but I am!!!...And...so, knowing how TMS can grab me when I repress, I chose to tell you exactly what I am feeling...
I wrote such a friendly, loving reply to you here with deep gratitude that we made amends...and you wrote a few general lines back to what Alexis spoke of and a short novel to Helen...(mind you, I write novels too...just not great ones like you and TT because I am not a professional writer)...But still...when will you let this go...really?? That was a valid question asked to you on here previously!
You are talking out of both sides of you mouth and it still feels uncomfortable to me...You are being kind to me on the one hand, and then taking back apologies and writing to Helen about my self involvement (a kinder way of calling me a narcissist AGAIN!!!!)...This whole name calling thing started out of your original reaction to my post called "Good stress.." And even several others saw that it was unfair for you to say what you did to me...So I know it's not all in MY head...
A fun, light and innocent post turned into a nightmare once you chimmed in...that is the reality of what happened...I am a very forgiving person and when someone apologizes I do let things go..But then when you end up saying that same thing you apologized for (just in sweeter terms)...it just re-opens the original wound, hence my reaction now...
Words can be very damaging and very powerful, even if you haven't met the person face to face...That is my opinion...One thing that I hate more then anything is being misunderstood...If I were REALLY just trying to promote my art, then why didn't I send an email DIRECTLY to the kind people on here who gave me their top 3 favorites or complimented my talent...I could have contacted them directly saying "Hey ya wanna buy a painting???" But I did not, and I would not...For goodness sakes, this is so sickening...maybe that is why I feel like throwing up! Maybe it's not even a physical flu bug, but an emotional reaction to all this Drama...and this ridiculous over-reaction to what should have been a one or two page thread! Enough said, I am so drained I cannot even think straight.
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Edited by - Singer_Artist on 03/28/2007 11:42:25 |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 11:40:44
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Hi Karen,
The interesting question here is if you and Art have each others email addresses, and have corresponded off-line before, why aren't you hashing this out and making your apologies in private? That is where the really human interactions could take place, where you aren't both worrying about being exposed or embarrassed and subject to the input from 3rd parties. That private correspondence would be an interaction that was closer to what happens in true friendship.
Normal, sincere personal interactions are not easily played out in front of an audience. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 11:47:00
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| I hear you, Alexis and again what you are asking makes sense...But it is a question you should also ask Art, not just me...I thought this thing was over, until I read what he wrote today on the other thread...I don't know why he and I have been hashing it out here and not via regular email...but I do know that that is a choice we Both made, not just me...And this is something that happens ALOT on here...I am sure you realize that...Had Art written a sincere apology to me via regular email, I would have responded via regular email, but he did not...And...I admitted that I am having an EMOTIONAL reaction to feeling attacked...So, I am not thinking clearly and very frustrated about this whole thing...It should never have turned into all of this... |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 11:50:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
I hear you, Alexis and again what you are asking makes sense...But it is a question you should also ask Art, not just me...
Sorry, annoying English grammar issue. I meant "y'all" or "ye"...in the only English dialects with a second person plural. Standard English grammar is a pain sometimes. :)
"why aren't y'all hashing this out and making your apologies in private?" |
Edited by - alexis on 03/28/2007 11:53:33 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 12:02:01
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| LOL...Okay I understand...and you pose an excellent question...But, at this point, I am so frustrated that I sure am not going to make the first move to take this to regular email...And anyway...it is probably providing some good entertainment and distraction from TMS pain to a few people on here...The bad news for me is that I am blocked, at the moment, creatively...(Probably also has to do with having a touch of the flu) I have a big commission to finish and I cannot even pick up a brush right now...I have to get a grip on myself and just give up on trying to explain my position...BTW, speaking of grammer problems, I had to edit my ridiculously long post here due to all kinds of English problems! It happens when I let my emotions run wild..I type very fast so I make alot of mistakes... |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 12:53:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
BTW, speaking of grammer grammar problems, I had to edit my ridiculously long post here due to all kinds of English problems! It happens when I let my emotions run wild..I type very fast so I make alot a lot of mistakes...
That's one reason to use a browser with an automatic spell checker. :) I don't think I'd survive without it. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 12:57:39
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| True! Wish this computer had that feature, it would be useful to me... I am pretty bad on computers..I only recently learned to even copy and paste, lol! BTW, our little light hearted chat here has helped to calm me down in my reactions to what is STILL carrying on regarding my post on good stress...Thanks for that...:)) |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 15:02:32
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Karen,
I've tried to be consistent throughout, but I can see how it might not feel that way to you...The last thing I'll say publicly because it involves Helen....I responded via the forum because she twice mentioned me by name..I resisted answering the first time for the reasons you talk about, but it honestly felt churlish for me not to tell her I appreciated her support, because I did. I also felt badly for her because someone felt it necessary to call her an insulting name..PLus, you attacked her I thought a bit too ferociously..But I should have kept my comments confined to that, and not discussed you further. So you're right again.
I will send you an e-mail as Alexis suggests. This is becoming a conversation between you and I and should be private...By the way, Alexis, I did write, but my e-mail bounced back..I don't want you to think I ignored it, especially since I was the one who asked you to write.. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 15:52:30
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I edited my comment to Helen per the advice of a friend on here...However, I did not call her an insulting name, she called me an "Innocent Victim," among other nasty things she said!..So now rolling in my head is you calling me a selfish, narcissist and her calling me an innocent victim! Enough is enough already! As I said b4, does the punishment fit the crime!? I am not some person on here faking TMS, as Helen once accused me of as well! I am not someone on here just trying to spam everyone and sell my art! That is what I am feeling like you and Helen are insinuating...
In the thread on 'tightness in skull' she spoke very badly to me as well...Several people called her on it...How I reacted, in my view, was not anywhere near as ferocious and nasty as she did..It is VERY out of character for me to show this much anger..But when I feel attacked, I guess it's the New Yorker/Jerseyite in me that feels the need to Defend myself...Otherwise I am a very peaceful person...You are welcome to write me via regular email anytime... |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 17:42:47
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| I didn't say you called her an insulting name...it wasn't you. It was someone else. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 22:59:54
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Hi Shortcake,
Oh my goodness...I am soooo touched by your email...What a kind heart you have, that is evident! Thank you from the bottom of my heart...You did cheer me up and everything you said resonates with me...I have listened to the Hicks tapes b4 about a year or so ago and then passed them on...They are very good...I don't know what possessed me to co-create this drama...really...In any case, I did learn alot, so something good came out of it...I am feeling really crappy, however, and I am sure this emotional stress didn't help... You are soooo right...I should be focusing on the magazine and my art! Thank you for the necessary reminder! God bless you!
Big Hugs!
~Karen |
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redskater
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 09:22:21
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Come on Karen! In the first post(way back when), you put up your web site address and asked if anyone knew someone that was looking for art to go to your site. Then you put up the second post with your web site again. Personally, it doesn't bother me one way or another, but come on take some responsiblity for your actions. You put it out there now you say you weren't solicitng. In most of your posts you always end up being the poor, misunderstood one. You bring it on yourself, and then if everyone doesn't agree with you, you think everyone is ganging up on you.
Have you ever wondered why your posts always end up getting like this??
Gaye
Gaye |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 09:31:01
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Hi Redskater,
It is clear that you didn't read my apology post I sent out to anyone who was offended by my mentioning my art site on here..How many times do you think I need to apologize? I have been wrongly accused of more then just soliciting my art, but I don't have the energy to defend myself anymore...Nor do I think it is fair for everyone to have to hear me explain ad nauseum that I meant no harm and was just excited to share some good news...I think those who disagree have driven the point home quite well. And there have been just as many, if not more, people who had no problem with my posts to begin with! I chose to apologize to those who did. |
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HelenB
17 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 10:24:39
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Well put redskater.
Apologies don't mean much, if ya' do the same thing over and over again, and I feel that repeating over and over again you've apologized for something isn't the same thing as taking responsibility for it.
Karen, I doubt you will take this in the spirit that it is intended, which is a helpful one, but here goes: Please try to consider what I'm about to say, as I feel it might be helpful to you.
Maybe by always being the "poor misunderstood one" which always generates effusive support from your buddies, you somehow feel cared for. The sick and injured little girl in you is comforted by her friends rallying around you. Maybe your TMS drives you toward it.
Just a thought.
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Displaced Aggression
