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Curiosity18
USA
141 Posts |
 Posted - 03/26/2007 : 00:22:09
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Singer Artist,
First of all, I want to tell you (as I have in the past) that your art is spectacular. However, you certainly continue to stir controversy here. You have been confronted on numerous occasions about misusing this forum for your own personal business ventures, and yet you continue to do so. When someone brings it to your attention, you behave like the classic victim, unable to see your own part in their issue with you. Further complicating things is the fact that you continue to have folks who rescue you, thus preventing you from looking into your true inner motives here. I believe Art is completely justified in his comments. You say that you do not wish to upset anyone or break the rules. I truly wish that you would ask yourself why numerous people have expressed their concerns about your commercial use of this site. I also wish that Dave would post a reminder of what is and isn't acceptable in this forum.
Curiosity |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 04:56:04
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I fail to see how Karen is "misusing this forum for her own personal business ventures." Has she made any money from this forum? This assertion is just twisting things beyond all proporation and simply unfair. I am really sick and tired of these continual attacks on Karen over such a minor thing. It seems like people have thrown all compassion out of the window and instead have embraced a mean-spiritedness which I find to be incomprehensible.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 06:13:36
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I feel both opinions are right. This forum is certainly not about promoting ones business stuff ... At the same time, if what we are doing is life is at the center of our recovery, why not talking about it if it can also help someone else ? The fact that this forum is separated into threads means that nobody has to contribute to a particular thread if he or she does not identify with it, right? We all produces more or less 'useless' threads sometimes and sometimes I guess its just ok that way considering that it probably help us to ventilate something we feel we should let go...
The thing that I personnaly dislike the most on this kind of post though is the 'gang' effect .. People rescuing people, People attacking people, people bashing people attacking .... To me its just another useless and counterproductive way to repress our feelings ..
Let's tell the kid inside that this forum is no elementary school....
P. |
Edited by - FlyByNight on 03/26/2007 06:19:33 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 07:16:04
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Shawn wrote" ]I fail to see how Karen is "misusing this forum for her own personal business ventures." Has she made any money from this forum? This assertion is just twisting things beyond all proporation and simply unfair. I am really sick and tired of these continual attacks on Karen over such a minor thing. It seems like people have thrown all compassion out of the window and instead have embraced a mean-spiritedness which I find to be incomprehensible.
The gist of what I am saying is that I had a strong reaction to Karen's post and wanted to explore that wherever it took me...
I think it's at least interesting that I've not said one angry word, and yet a lot of anger has been stirred up nonetheless
You can be upset if you feel you need to be Karen. I'm sorry for that and I feel badly about it, but as Fly by Night so wisely pointed out (thank you for your breath of fresh air by the way, we're all supposedly adults here.
I don't mind being a minority of one (make that 2...thanks for your support curiosity). But I would urge each and every one of you who've reacted in anger to explore that...Maybe we'll all learn something, which as far as I'm concerned is a much better use of this forum than to vote on Karen's art work, which as far as I can see has much more to do with karen than it does with TMS...
Karen wrote: "AND...if you recal, I also mentioned that I was having ALOT of physical symptoms related to this positive stress! Now that I read what Art had to say, chances are those pains will probably increase..."
I just saw this...Clearly, there were many ways to discuss your positive stress without using the forum as your own personal polling device...As to the second thing about blaming me for your pain, I really think that's completely unfair...We're all responsible for our own reactions to things...PLaying the victim is not a good way to cope with life's stresses or your TMS.
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Edited by - art on 03/26/2007 07:44:39 |
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 07:36:15
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quote:
Originally posted by art
You know I love ya Karen, but this bothers me. It strikes me as a not very good use of the TMS forum because it seems mainly a device for getting attention.
..it strikes me as essentially selfish...all about one person, which in this case is you. Again, there's nothing wrong with this particularly, but it does feel to me there's a better, higher use of forum space.
Your posts struck me as odd, and now I remember why. It's the hypocrisy of it:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2427
How can you attack someone else for something you yourself have done in the not-too-distant past?
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Edited by - sonora sky on 03/26/2007 08:24:28 |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 07:49:38
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quote:
Originally posted by art
The gist of what I am saying is that I had a strong reaction to Karen's post and wanted to explore that wherever it took me...
Hi Art,
I think I see what you're getting at. And I agree, it is an interesting area of exploration of your own psychology. But I might also want to suggest another area of exploration to consider -- why is it you weren't able to predict that the things you said would upset Karen? I am a very different person than Karen in most ways, yet I had no doubt at all when I read your post that it would be upsetting to her. Something, somehow, was blocking your ability to make this kind of normal judgment about the feelings and reactions of others.
I don't know you well enough to want to guess too much here. The lack of understanding would be common in many of those with autism spectrum disorders, for instance. But there are lots of other possibilities. You may only be blinded in cases where you are already upset. A lack of control issue, like road rage? Or, as you say, an issue from your past was raised which this triggered?
So were you genuinely unaware that what you said could be upsetting? There are some online free Asperger's type tests you may want to explore as a starting place. Or were you just blinded here? Or did you have some inkling it might be upsetting, but overrode those instincts that because you were more upset than you are letting yourself believe?
At any rate, I see what you mean and am exploring my ideas on it a little here. But if you really want to start this kind of exploration I think the way to do it (for future reference) would have been not only on a new thread, but with significant separation from the original so as not to hurt a person who was trying to share her joy by offering what amounts to criticisms of her personality. |
Edited by - alexis on 03/26/2007 08:05:45 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 07:52:24
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'Your posts struck me as odd, and now I remember why. It's the hypocrisy of it:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2427
How can you attack someone else for something you yourself have done in the not-to-recent past?"
I don't believe this is the same thing ...I asked on a one time basis and invited people to contact me privately...I did not use the forum as a device to discuss my work publicly in any way beyond the invitation itself
And I'll say it yet again, I'm not attacking Karen.."Hypocricy"..."attack"...these are strong words and they're often used when a person is angry...Maybe that's something you could look at...
All that said, it probably was a mistake for me to ask for personal help on the forum...I justified it in my own mind by weighing what I thought was a pretty steadfast history of being a contributor to the forum.It seemed a small thing to ask at the time...Had I to do it over again, I probably wouldn't.
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Edited by - art on 03/26/2007 08:09:08 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 08:05:41
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quote:
So were you genuinely unaware that what you said could be upsetting? There are some online free Asperger's type tests you may want to explore as a starting place. Or were you just blinded here? Or did you have some inkling it might be upsetting, but overrode those instincts that because you were more upset than you are letting yourself believe?
This is an excellent question and I appreciate it...I was not unaware that it would upset Karen...I hesitated long and hard before posting for that very reason...In the end, I decided that Karen's a strong woman who's been in the middle of much contention and controversy on this forum practically from the beginning...I weighed the two things, the value of an honest discussion and the very real downside that Karen would be upset and decided that it was worthwhile...
It was a hard choice and I had a sleepless first half of last night over it...
I'm actually overburdened with empathy...I can't stand reading stories about animal suffering for example...My earliest childhood memories are of feeling painfully sorry for unpopular kids...That continues to this day with respect to unfortunate people... |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 08:15:09
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quote:
Originally posted by art
This is an excellent question and I appreciate it...I was not unaware that it would upset Karen...I hesitated long and hard before posting for that very reason...In the end, I decided that Karen's a strong woman who's been in the middle of much contention and controversy on this forum practically from the beginning...I weighed the two things, the value of an honest discussion and the very real downside that Karen would be upset and decided that it was worthwhile...
I guess I'd probably just write this off to miscalculation, then. You took a chance that this would open up discussion in another area, and it really didn't work out because people are more concerned with the etiquette issues of raising such a discussion within this thread (kind of understandably, I think myself).
Sometimes you get it right with these choices, sometimes you don't. I think we've all been there. Maybe you can raise these issues again later? Or add your concerns to one of the old existing threads (of which there are many) about dividing up the forum into sections? |
Edited by - alexis on 03/26/2007 08:15:48 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 08:22:55
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Thanx Shawn :))
I really do appreciate your support with this..You are very kind hearted, I can feel that..And I get alot out of your posts here, thank you for that as well..You were the one who introduced me to 'The Secret', for example, months ago, b4 Oprah probably even knew about it!
Thank you, Curiousity for your compliment on my art work..But, I have to say that I sense you over-analzying my post as well...
Believe it or not, I think through my decisions, even small ones..The last time I posted and mentioned my art, there were just as many people who had NO PROBLEM with it, maybe more, then people who did...And, if Dave had a problem and confronted me directly on it, I would have never mentioned ANYTHING in the Universe but TMS again..But he did not..And, Dave is the moderator of this wonderful forum..He has the final word in my book..
I was being 100 percent genuine about the topic of Good Stress..I have been dealing with ALOT of extra pain since this positive door opened for me, even chest pains that took me to a cardiologist!! So I assure you IT WAS NOT JUST TO PROMOTE MY BUSINESS as FlyByNight is insinuating...In fact, I have never sold a single piece of art on the TMS forum, nor am I trying to..Most of my work sells from my exhibitions and word of mouth...This is not the place for me to try to sell art and that would be inappropriate, for sure, if I tried to...Being an artist is feast or famine and the sales come in waves, but I am not that desperate!
I was merely taking a poll for this HUGE decision I have to make and discussing the TMS pain I am currently STILL dealing with in the process...I was also sharing JOY and HAPPINESS with all of you, since so many of my PAST POSTS were about PAIN AND SUFFERING...Is that really such a huge crime?? There are hundreds of threads to chose from here, and I am NOT the only one who occasionally goes off topic...Just don't read any of mine, if anyone has a problem with what I have to say..It is that simple.
If you Art, Curiousity and FlyByNight really knew me, you would understand more clearly why I wanted so badly to share something positive...And, after all, Art, Music, etc..are the things in this world that ADD beauty and positive energy for us all to enjoy, and even maybe take our minds off the pain for a moment...My greatest Joy in painting is when I know I touched another persons heart in the process...That makes all the financial ups and downs worth it! There is a reason for the term 'starving artist..' And there is a reason that throughout history artists/musicians and the like have led very challenging lives! I hope to break the mold of that and perhaps reach my ultimate dreams b4 being dead!
Because the recent many years have been very difficult with multiple injuries, losses of loved ones, etc...I feel compelled to share something good when it happens...And I felt this was big enough to share with my friends on here...But again, I spoke of it's affect on my physical body and the TMS as well..I wanted to start a discussion about that too...In general, I am also working on using the principles from "The Secret" movie and the Law of Attraction...What we focus on expands, what we resist persists, etc..
My life from day one of my birth has been challenging...I could write a book and might in later years, who knows...I have come close to making it big on several occasions if it were not for a major accident or someone very close to me dying...So perhaps, God willing, this little opening will bring some good fruit! I really saw no harm in my original post..And although the heat has calmed, I still feel some lingering hurt about what was said, I have to be honest...
I am so busy right now working on a commission that I will have no choice but to truly let it all go...And chose, instead..to focus on the very positive replies I received from some wonderful people b4 the great debate began in this thread...
I am embarassed about how I handled this, I realize I over-reacted to the over-reaction..That is how I see it..Some of us on here, myself including, can tend to get into this splitting hairs thing and drive ourselves and everyone else crazy! It doesn't have to be sooo complicated all the time...really...:)
I also feel ashamed about this LONG post about my personal life...That is why I chose to edit it and take several things out...It is inappropriate and immature on my part to share on that deep of a level here...Why I was driven to spill my guts to this level, I do not know...
Again and again..thanx to those who treated this post the way it was intended and were kind enough to give me their opinions and their support! God bless you all...
Hugs,
Karen
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Edited by - Singer_Artist on 03/26/2007 16:02:55 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 08:33:16
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Alexis and Sonora Sky,
Thank you so very much for your kind and supportive words! I really do appreciat it and it does help with the pain of the insults to my character...This hurt even more coming from someone (Art) that I thought was a good internet friend of mine...It sort of blindsighted me, in fact..and it sure did (I allowed it to, of course)..steal my joy...It also stopped anyone else (in their tracks) from giving me their opinions on which painting I should chose for the article in the magazine...(Perhaps that was part of your intention Art..if it was, you sure succeeded in turning this into something far different then what it was intended to be, and did hurt my feelings in the process...) Yes, I am a sensitive artist, I own that! And I do apologize for the comment about this all is going to increase my pain...I did not mean to blame you for my pain...My pain is my cross to bare...entirely...However...since TMS does INCREASE from emotional stress, I have to agree 100 percent with what Alexis so eloquently wrote!
Hugs and God bless,
Karen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 08:48:15
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| Thank you Sonora Sky for pointing out that Art wrote VERY off topic about his writing not too long ago as well...My post here was about my art, yes...BUT IT WAS ALSO ABOUT THE AFFECTS ON THE BODY OF GOOD STRESS...I wanted to open up a discussion about that as well, which is COMPLETELY on topic! I was NOT just using the forum as a personal polling device! I have been on here and contributing for awhile now..And I also try to help others on here when I catch a post that resonates with me...As for caring for the unfortunates in life, that is me to a fault..I have always taken to the underdog and my ENTIRE REAL REASON for wanting to be a very successful artist and/or musician is so that i have the FUNDS TO HELP AS MANY ANIMALS ON THE PLANET AS I CAN! I spend HOURS ever day doing animal rights activism work..fighting navy sonar, the horrific clubbing of seals in Canada, the senseless killing of wolves in Alaska, the brutal torture of dolphins in Japan, etc. etc..That is MY MISSION IN THIS LIFE! So being called a selfish narcissist was highly uncalled for, even if you said it in a round about way! I am hurt and I am angry..And I am also turned off by how things can get sooooooooo distorted and blown out of proportion on here! I admit wholeheartedly that some of my past posts (like the global warming one, for example) were inappropriate and got very out of hand...The last thing I expected was that this one would get so out of hand and cause this level of debate...I peronally HATE debating (I know, you wouldn't know it by the way I defend myself..lol)..but really I do...I like PEACE and friendship even with those I have never met face to face...Forgive me for the VERY long posts...WOW..it has been awhile since I wrote a small novel on here... |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 08:56:37
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Alexis,
Again, all good points...I tried to send you an e-mail as there were one or two things I wanted to mention off list, but you have none listed...
Shoot me an e-mail if you're interested...If not, nothing too important.
And Karen, last word, how utterly disingenuous to compare my one...that's one...request for non TMS related assitance..a request that involved one post and my private e-mail, with your ongoing career and business discussions...You've gone so far as to ask people to buy your paintings...Talk about hypocricy...Please.
Ok, you did it, I admit it...Anger finally rears its ugly head.
Best,
A. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 09:08:14
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Art,
You can keep attacking me all that you want, but for my own health I will have to chose to Stop here..I did not call you a hypocrite, I merely agreed with Sonora Sky, she made a very good point...AGAIN AND AGAIN...My post has been ridiculously distorted by You. It was NOT ALL ABOUT BUSINESS, I know you can read, right?...It truly was about GOOD STRESS and the effects on TMS as well...And I have not asked people on here to buy my paintings, what the heck are you talking about?? You are the one who called me insulting names to begin with..You could have chosen your words more carefully and not insulted my very character as a person..That was uncalled for, completely..and I thought we were 'friends?'
When I write on here I write about MY LIFE in general and how it relates to TMS...The ONE post you wrote about your writing was ONLY about your writing, nothing else..And I had no problem with it when you wrote it!...I was just agreeing with Sonora Sky on the inappropriateness of calling me on going off topic when you did the same thing very recently!...nothing more, nothing less...
You are a writer and very intellectual..I suppose I am setting myself up for more nasty verbal attacks by standing up to you...That is the chance I will take to stand for what I believe in..Nothing is more infuriating then being misunderstood...
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 09:11:51
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Let it go Karen...Just let it go. I've no desire to attack you (there's that word again) or anyone else..
I've said my piece and then some...
Speaking of "piece,"
Peace. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 09:17:40
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PS...
Art,
You are one of the last people on here that I would ever want to hurt, even if you did something I considered inappropriate for the forum...I valued you as a real internet friend of mine, as I said b4...Which is probably why I am now having such a strong reaction to all of this...And it has become a head trip for me as well..It was the first thing I thought of upon awakening and indeed, now I have pain shooting into my left hand and a racing heart over this out of control discussion...On top of that, I feel embarassed over that ridiculously long post in which I Spilled my guts for the world to see! And add to that mess a good dose of GUILT over ANY stress that these debates might cause for other sensitive people on the forum...I admit, I have been at the center of controversy on here b4...but I am telling you the God's honest truth that I had NO IDEA on the planet that this would end up to be so controversial...READ MY OPENING PARAGRAPH..it is ABOUT MY TMS PAIN, darn it! All I was doing was ALSO sharing some good news with my friends on here and asking for an opinion on a tough decision! My goodness, does that REALLY warrant being called names like selfish and narcissistic? I think not.
I AM SO SORRY to anyone on here who is uncomfortable from reading any of this heated discussion...I am sorry for my contribution and I will do my best to keep my mouth shut if more attacks ensue...
Take care,
Karen |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 09:24:16
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quote:
My goodness, does that REALLY warrant being called names like selfish and narcissistic? I think not
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Round and round we go. I ask you to go back and read what I wrote carefully. I was in fact at pains to emphasize that I was not calling you narcissistic or selfish...I made that very explicit...
What I said was that your post....your post, not you....had certain resonances in that area for me....Just for me, not necessarily for anyone else...
I'd say it's time to move on and be friends again. I'm a sensitive type myself, and don't do well with all this hostility and pain. Life is too short...
Let's all take a good deep breath of peace and understanding and move on...
Hugs,
A.
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 09:24:46
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This is really GOOD STUFF here. I was gonna' sit this one out on the side-lines and relish everyone else having goes at each other, but this is just too good to not join the party. Besides, being the most prolific poster here it would exhibit a distinct lack of balls to not chip in my 2cents worth.
Some of you have probably been wondering and loseing sleep over who's side is TT going to chime in on (I know I've been anxiously awaiting).
And the envelope please...I vote for ArT.
Cheers,
 tt
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 09:32:50
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Oh please, Tom...Give me a break? lol...
You know, I almost mentioned you in one of my reactive posts to Art..But, I decided not to, because I thought we had made peace from our past heated discussions, etc...And I thought that perhaps you would refrain from adding your typical borderline sadistic and sarcastic comments...How ironic, you taking Art's side?? The two of you have had some of the worst fights in the history of the TMS forum! But, I suppose if given the choice between Art and me, you would chose Art, makes sense! What fascinates me the most is how you 'get off' on other people's pain...You can see that I am clearly hurt by this and yet you see it as some sort of three ring circus...That is a cold heart in my estimation. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 09:43:51
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Hey Karen,
I love that. But before you take Tom's post too personally, I actually suspect he's also trying to make an artificial wedge between Art and myself, because he thinks we're in some sort of gang war against him. Some sort of funny little "divide and conquer" tactic, I guess.
I don't know about you, but while I think Art may be a little off on his choice of post this time, I still have a genuine respect for him and his posts -- which far outweighs any respect for yet another of Tom's typical shenanigans. I pretty much ignore Tom's posts now. Maybe you can bridge this gap with him, but I find the ignoring tactic brings much greater peace. |
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"Good" Stress
