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LitaM
Canada
54 Posts |
 Posted - 12/08/2006 : 09:58:26
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Hi,
I am relatively new here. I have a question for you knowledgeable TMS ers. My back, not my lower back, just the muscles that run along the spine, mid back are in total spasm in the early morning when I awaken. Like I stated before, if I awaken around 4am to use the bathroom, my back is fine. But anytime after 6am, it is in spasm and I have to get up. Remember, I am the one who can never sleep in. I can't even lie on my back, the muscles are biting so hard.
Then all day long, everything is fine? I re read Dr. Sarno's books nightly and talk with my brain nightly also. I know that this takes time, and I will keep working at it.
Why would my back only be in spasm in the very early morning and once I am up and get moving around it is totally fine?
Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated. I don't understand it, nobody else has this problem.
I love this board!
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 12:08:07
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Sounds to me, like you're not facing something rather large. Your ucs might be protecting you from it.
Maybe on some deep level you feel guilty sleeping in, because you feel you don't do enough. I was always the worst upon waking, because I couldn't stand the hopelessness of my career and life. Once I faced those issues (and a few others) problem solved!
Regards,
Beth |
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LitaM
Canada
54 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 13:21:35
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Beth,
When I mean sleeping in, I mean till maybe 7:30am, I am not a person who likes to sleep in. Guilty for not doing enough, what a laugh. I do everything. I am a stay at home mom of two children and my husband works shift work. I really mean that I do everything. So being guilty about doing not enough isn't it. I exercise daily. Thanks for you suggestion though.
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 13:29:01
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Hi Lita,
I don’t know if this will help. Pages. 63-65 of “The Mindbody Prescription” (part 2. Chapter 3,”Pavlovian Conditioning—Programming”) deal with this:
“One of the most important clinical features of TMS is the tendency for sufferers to develop a specific pattern of pain, including what time of day or night they will have pain, what activities or postures will bring it on, what things they can and cannot do.
These are programmed reactions. They develop automatically and unconsciously by association..."
...
"Some common patterns:
1. You wake up feeling pretty good, but the pain gets worse as the day goes on; by evening you can barely get around.
2. Mornings are the worst; you struggle to get out of bed. A hot shower makes you feel a little better and by the time you leave for work you're able to get around; as the day goes on you feel better and better.
3. You feel pretty good during the day but the nights are terrible; ...
4. You sleep well at night but the pain during the day is terrible.
..."
Hilary N |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 14:20:26
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Hi Lita,
I really relate to this comment you made: "Guilty for not doing enough, what a laugh. I do everything. I am a stay at home mom of two children and my husband works shift work. I really mean that I do everything." That may be a good indication of what your unconscious mind is protesting.
My husband has always felt his responsibilities start and end with bringing home a paycheck. Initially I felt like that was reasonable, because I knew his work was demanding--I'd done it myself before we got married.
However, as time went by, the demands at home became much greater than anything I'd ever experienced in that job, so I decided it was reasonable to ask for at least a bit of help sometimes.
At the time I got sick, it had been just a few months since the last 3 of my 6 step-children had moved in with us. The first 3 had come over the previous year. I had an 18-month child of my own and I was doing daycare, starting at 7 am. Because having the kids move in increased our expenses, we were in the red financially, so I decided to take on a part-time night job too, after my husband got home from work. All I really needed him to do was make sure all the kids did their evening chores and ask one of our teen-aged daughters to change the baby's diaper before bed, but he wouldn't do it. He said he would, but he just never did. I'd come home about 2 am to a hungry baby in the same diaper I'd put on him before I left. The dinner dishes and evening snack dishes would be all over the kitchen. The kids hadn't done their laundry. (Each child had a night to do 2 loads of laundry.) The living room looked like a tornado had gone through it. My stress level was off the charts.
I don't know if you're familiar with that old phrase that says "a woman's work is never done." (It comes from an English ballad; there were apparently multiple versions.) The version I've always liked best says "A man works from sun to sun (meaning sun-up to sun-down) but a woman's work is never done." It fits the life of a mother well. We are always on call, we don't really have control of our lives, our family does, particularly when our children are young.
The point is that as much as we love our spouses and children, taking care of the family can be an overwhelming responsibility at times. A woman's unconscious mind can begin to resent the demands and the lack of having any time for herself, even though on a conscious level she feels like she is totally willing to have all this responsibility. If you're not journaling, perhaps you could benefit from attempting to explore how your unconscious may be feeling about all you have to do.
Hope you'll be able to get free of the pain soon! |
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LitaM
Canada
54 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 17:25:50
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Hilary N and Littlebird thanks.
Hilary N, I did just read that in Sarno's book this week. So how do I get myself to stop expecting to have pain in the early morning?
Littlebird, I love that saying, God, how true, A woman's work is never done. As I read your story I find myself very lucky, I don't have to do daycare in the day like you did and then work again at night. My hat goes off to you. I think that I would of lost it if I were you. I would of just totally freaked out. How is you TMS now? Thanks for your help.
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 23:08:13
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I feel like I'm making pretty good progress with recovering, even though I still have some symptoms that are limiting my activity. I've recovered from several neurological type symptoms that seemed like Multiple Sclerosis to the point that I've been able to put away the cane I was using and have started going barefoot around the house again without having severe foot pain, I've stopped having chronic tooth pain in one side of my mouth, stopped having "tendonitis" in my right thumb which was very painful and had forced me to strictly limit my use of the computer keyboard and mouse, and my chronic sore throat has cleared up. I'm also less depressed. But I'm still having flu-like aching and fatigue, so I've got more work to do.
It seems like a good thing that the spasms only occur at a particular time, because that lets you know it's got to be TMS, rather than a structural problem. One way that conditioning can begin is when a legitimate cause of pain occurs, but then even though the original cause goes away the mind continues creating the same pain for its own reasons. Or the mind can create the pain, and because we don't realize it's a psychological pain we begin expecting it to occur whenever we are in the same place/position/activity that we were in when the pain first began. It gets to be like a cycle of expectation and reinforcement.
For me, breaking conditioning has involved pushing against the expectation, by making myself try things that hurt while reasoning with myself that I know this pain has a psychological source and telling myself I'm not going to accept this mind game anymore. I've been able to do that with some of the symptoms, the neurological stuff and the thumb pain. The toothache and sore throat just went away on their own as I was dealing with the other stuff. This week I realized that if I sit down and journal when I'm having pain, it helps reduce or eliminate the pain. Even if I don't feel much relief that day, by the next day there's a big improvement.
But I may have an advantage because I don't just have repressed emotions, I have suppressed emotions which I'm aware of, so I assume the repressed emotions relate to the same situations that caused my suppressed anger. It took me a little while to get beyond the point of just feeling emotionally wounded by people in my life and to be able to admit that I'm angry and that my anger is justified. The book Pain Free For Life by Dr. Brady has a section on accessing emotions that talks about the methods we use to avoid our anger, because we believe the anger is inappropriate, like saying someone has disappointed us, or annoyed us, or only saying that they've hurt us without also acknowledging that being hurt makes us mad. It took me a while to get to the point of realizing I can be really angry at things done by the people I love without feeling like being angry means I'm being disloyal to those people.
But people are not the only source of unrecognized anger. Just life in general can cause it. We can be very resentful and angry that life is not going the way we'd really hoped it would, that the world is not a fair place, that so much of our time has to go into all the gruntwork that is necessary for survival, that we can't take the time we'd like to take to really enjoy our children.
The best thing I can suggest is to really focus on the emotions, maybe when you wake up in pain take some time to just take note of the thoughts going through your mind, not about the back pain, but any other thoughts. Maybe just make a list of some of the thoughts that pop into your head, then later start analyzing those to see where it leads you.
Sorry this got to be so long. Hang in there--I know you'll succeed in time. |
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LitaM
Canada
54 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 05:36:08
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Wow Littlebird you have had a lot of pain. I hope that you feel well soon. Thanks for trying to help me sort things out.
I know that I am angry, I am conciously aware of it. Angry for my present boring life. I feel like a maid/nanny. The only thing that I do for myself is exercise. Unappreciated. Angry for my crappy growing up. Alcholic father who died of throat cancer when I was 15, selfish siblings. Mother was fine, but was a crappy driver and wrecked every car that we owned,growing up poor. That was stress. I could go on and on.
My pain is worst when awakening, I can do everything else during the day without discomfort. If I get the muscles massaged in the day, they are so tight and hurt like hell, but the aching is only terrible when I first awaken.
I feel pathetic about being angry, since my life to others looks like a picnic. Look at peoples lives in parts of Africa, that is a living hell. I feel pathetic to be angry about my pretty comfortable life. Millions would love to have my life.
I will try journalling and hopefully that may help. Trying to keep it from prying eyes will be interesting. You know how kids are, mine are nosey.
Thank you so much for your help. Keep strong. P.S. Hoepfully this message will post once. I wrote another message, but it got lost somehow. So enraging. Ha. Best Wishes. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 12:26:56
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Just a few more thoughts--
These two statements that you made say a lot:
"I feel pathetic to be angry about my pretty comfortable life. Millions would love to have my life."
"I could go on and on."
Those are both things that I've said to myself. I think like you do about other parts of the world and how sad other people's lives are compared to what I have. That's part of the TMS personality. But a friend helped me realize that just because things could be worse, and are for many, that doesn't mean we don't have legitimate complaints. She'd lost her children in a divorce, something I couldn't imagine surviving so I felt my problems were minor in comparison, but she told me that my problems still counted, that my distress over my life was not trivial, petty, or insignificant just become someone else is much worse off.
While I am grateful for what I have, I've learned that it's not unreasonable to be angry that many of my emotional needs haven't been met. Our emotional needs are as legitimate and important as our physical needs. Emotional needs are a part of our physical design. That's why so many people who've had a crappy childhood or are in an unfulfilling marriage or lifestyle are still unhappy even if they're rich and have every physical need met to excess and even if they do have some good emotional experiences in a few areas of their life.
I hesitated to journal for a while, party because I was afraid of anyone seeing it and partly because I felt guilty about the feelings I have. I hoped that just turning things over in my mind would have the same effect, but it didn't, for me anyway. It's hard to describe the difference between thinking it and writing it, but the writing seems to validate the feelings, as if someone else was saying, "Yes, it's normal and ok to feel that. I see what you're going through." Science shows that having someone "safe" to tell our feelings to can rewire the brain circuits in a way that improves our ability to cope, so I think that writing may have a similar effect. So when you say that you could go on and on, it may be helpful to do exactly that in a journal.
One way to hide a journal, if you have the word processor Microsoft Word, is to use hidden text. I don't know if other word processors have that option.
Take care--Corey |
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LitaM
Canada
54 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 13:58:18
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Thanks Corey.
My husband also has back pain, although his is much worse than mine. He has a few herniated disks, which we know is TMS. He finds TMS hard to understand.
If you believe that the pain is truly caused by the mind, why doesn't it just go away. How long does it take? I truly believe in TMS and tell myself to think psychological, the pain is still there. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 18:21:20
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Getting from sadness to anger seems to be a common topic lately so I thought I might add my perspective on why we become angry when we are hurt or denied what we want, and why it doesn't make us bad, why the anger is both good and useful.
We need to survive. To survive, we need to have our needs fulfilled. We also need to be at least somewhat happy, and for that we need to have some of our wants fulfilled.
If these things don't happen, our survival is in danger. Our anger ensures that we don't just fold up in a ball and collapse when our needs or wants are interfered with. It gives us strength and power to defend our needs and our boundaries. It is, in a way, our self-worth speaking. Instead of letting other people always get what they want, it says "NO WAY! I'm here and I count too! Give me my fair share of the meat! Don't make me do more than my fair share of the work! Don't tell me I'm a terrible or worthless person, because I'm not."
But sometimes we are in a situation where this powerful survival tactic backfires -- like if our parents cannot accept our anger. Then we have to repress it. And our society today doesn't really regard anger in this healthy way, and show us how to wisely use our own anger power to ensure we get what we need. Instead it just says, angry is bad, angry leads to violence, no, you don't really need to look out for yourself, just for others. Again, the anger is repressed. And repressed anger becomes rage. Rage is dangerous, so TMS comes to distract us.
Being angry is not pathetic or bad. It's self-protective. It's a survival tactic, a health tactic. It tells you when something feels wrong to you and gives you the extra energy and strength to change it (if it's a situation right now), or reject it (if it's a past situation, like you are angry about a past loss, anger helps you reject the idea that you deserved the loss and it is okay; its message is "No, that wasn't okay, I didn't like that, I don't want to experience it ever again.").
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 19:00:39
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Good Post ArmchairL ! |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 19:21:05
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Lita, here is a link to a thread that Dave started in the past about the process of recovery, which I think may help to explain why it takes more than knowledge of TMS and belief that the cause of our symptoms is psychological. Many of us here have felt the same frustration you're feeling about this process. That's why this board is so valuable, to help us figure out how to find our personal path to freedom from the pain. http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1589
ACL, I love that thought that our anger is our self-worth speaking and that it gives us strength to defend our needs and boundaries. Also that it's a survival tactic and a health tactic. |
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PeterW
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 21:17:41
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Wow, anger as a survival tactic. So obvious, yet I've never really thought of it in those terms before. Thanks ACL. But then this anger itself has to be supressed as a survival tactic, as we learn that it will get us into loads of trouble if we display it in our 'sophisticated' culture. No wonder our unconscious minds start pulling all these stunts on us, probably in rebellion, as the original survival tactic (anger), which results from us not having our needs met on some level, must be repressed to survive in the modern world. Those that dont suppress it are judged as childish, selfish etc etc.
I also relate to the point about looking at people in poor developing parts of the world, and feeling guilty about getting angry over aspects of my own life when millions of others are struggling just to survive through wars, famines, epidemics etc. I used to think that we have no right to complain in the west as we comparatively had it so easy. Well we certainly do in a way, but maybe not in another way. Seems anyone I have known who has travelled to Africa or Latin America is struck by the beauty in the people, no matter what their circumstances. They are so real and experience all their emotions so fully. No repression going on there, not when survival is at stake every day.
Thanks for posting that link Littlebird, it was good to read through that thread again. |
Edited by - PeterW on 12/09/2006 21:19:58 |
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Special One
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 23:30:55
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So what do we do so that our children don't have to supress their anger and become tms victims? Lately my 8 year old has had somepains that I consider tms. One was her chest and one her shoulder. I explained tms and told her to think of things that might be worrying her or making her mad. Together we came up with a few things:
-My concern with her watching too much TV (We just got cable and she loves the Disney Channel)
-concern about death and how do we know for sure that there is a heaven.
-The possibility of my husband ans I separating.
So we came up with an agreement for how many hours a day she could watch TV, called a religious friend who explained his faith in heaven, and discussed concerns about my marriage and agteed to have frequent communication about thoughts and feelings she has about it.
After talking, her pain was lessened and then gone the next day. I'm really considering how I react regarding her emotions. I don't like it when she gets frustrated with something and talks as if I was to blame. I tell her not to talk to me as if I am to blame. Is that causing her to repress emotions?
Any thoughts on child rearing and tms? What about a 2 year old who gets angry about getting in the carseat, not being able to wear peed on shoes, etc.
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 02:04:20
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Hi Special One,
I think that you're giving your daughter the tools she needs to avoid TMS by telling her how it works and exploring her feelings with her. You're showing her how to access and acknowledge her feelings and she'll be able to continue this throughout her life.
It's reasonable to tell her that you feel she isn't being fair when she views you as the one to blame when she's frustrated. The key is to acknowledge the feelings of the unconscious, not necessarily to act on them. The unconscious part of us is often selfish. It may be a while before your daughter can fully understand that, but maybe you can just tell her you understand why she feels angry and wants to blame you, then explain why it's not really fair to blame you, because you are just doing what you know is best for her when you limit tv time, etc. That acknowledges her feelings while teaching her to also respect yours.
I'm reading a fascinating book about the neuroscience of brain function that actually talks quite a bit about raising children to be emotionally healthy. (The book's called Social Intelligence, by Daniel Goleman.) Based on what I've read, with a 2-year-old the goal is to provide a sense of security and a sense they are valued, not by giving in to their whims, but by giving them attention and affection regularly and being responsive to their real needs. This influences their brain function in a positive way.
The book says, "In short, well-empathized children tend to become secure." By well-empathized it essentially means recognizing and acknowledging the child's feelings. They will then learn to recognize and acknowledge their own feelings, which will help them be less likely to repress or suppress emotions. Again, as parents we want to help them see that having the feeling doesn't always mean they should act on the feeling and that none of us gets to do whatever we please at all times. Tell them you understand their wish and explain why they can't have that particular wish. They may outwardly reject your explanation and still be consciously angry at you, but because you've acknowledged their feelings those feelings won't end up getting repressed. |
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LitaM
Canada
54 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 06:15:55
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Thanks Everyone,
My personality fits the perfectionist tendency more and my husband the people pleaser. I am a pretty outspoken person, or at least a lot of people see me that way. I know that I keep a lot of how I feel in, I can't just say that I think that someone's behaviour is stupid etc. People would be insulted right and left. Not only am I am perfectionistic I am introverted, plus mild social anxiety.
An example, tonight my inlaws want to take my husband out for his 40 th birthday that was last week. We are going to a restaurant that I hate, the food sucks. To top it off both of his sisters and their husbands are coming. One of them told me to Fu@* Off a few years ago infront of my children. I can't stand her, a real know it all.
Now with my husband being the people pleaser, he wants me to be good and not in a bad mood. I really don't want to go, but what can you do. The last time I had a meal at this restaurant my vegetables were more than charbroiled, they were black and my prime rib was mostly prime fat. He never wants me to say anything, I hate it. His people pleasing makes me insane, he never wants to be rude.
So my husband is very aware of how I feel about the whole situation, but he wants me to shut up, only say something about the food if necessary.
How do you get through life when these situations come up all of the time, we can't do what we always want. You have to compromise. Christmas will be at her house this year. I hate it but I can't always do what I want.
Thanks everyone. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 08:38:44
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go to the bar and slam down about 6 hard ones and let it all hang-out; things will start looking amusing to you at that point or you won't be invited back next time; bring someone interesting to talk to along and ignore everybody else. |
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LitaM
Canada
54 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 10:21:02
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| Tennis Tom you are hilarious. I can't do that. I don't really drink to start with and if I were to slam down 6 drinks, boy it would all hang out. I would really say what's on my mind, not good, not good, not good. Thanks for the laugh. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 11:18:29
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Just visualize it then and enjoy the carbonated peas  |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 15:17:24
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" Just visualize it then and enjoy the carbonated peas."
That seems to be the point. We don't have to let it all hang out in public, if doing that will cause problems, but letting it all out in the journal seems to be enough to get rid of the physical pain for many people. Some may need to make some changes in their ongoing situations, I'd imagine.
But I'm finding that putting the frustrations and anger in my journal are making a big difference in my ability to tolerate the ongoing relationship frustrations, especially as I get more free about what I write rather than censoring myself because I feel I'm sounding too childish and selfish. I'm not just getting rid of the physical symptoms, but I'm getting a different frame of mind too. Things that really bothered me before, that seemed terribly unfair, just aren't having as much of an impact on me now. My sense of justice isn't feeling so violated.Somehow I feel more in control of my life even though the other people's behaviors haven't changed. But I'm not sure if that's just me or if it works the same way for other TMSer's too.
Here's an interesting article about the power of journaling that someone posted on another thread a while back: http://www.longnaturalhealth.com/library2.asp?A=65 |
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Early Morning TMS Only
