| Author |
 Topic  |
|
art
1903 Posts |
 Posted - 12/11/2006 : 17:12:39
|
I think about this one a lot. I accepted a long time ago that in order to recover from chronic illness we must radically change how we relate to the world. After all, we can't expect to get well while we're engaging in the same old self defeating, negative thought processes that made us sick in the first place.
So for example, for me, a key part of getting better has involved making a concerted effort to stop worrying so much. I've made lots of progress, but mostly it's a matter of taking evasive actions. In other words, developing ways to cut off the worry as soon as it starts. The primary impulse to worry however, remains...It feels like such an ingrained part of who I am, that it's hard to imagine that one day I might become, with regards to worry anyway, a different person..
JUst to put things in more concrete terms, let's say I'm on a run...half way through the run I have knee pain...Despite the fact that I'm 100 percent better at being able to talk myself out of the worry and fear that such pain always elicits, at leats initially, I've made almost no progress at all in being able to short circuit the fear response itself...I can deal with it once it arises, but I can't seem to find a way to cut if off at its source...
I'm wondering what some of you guys think...Is it possible to take it to the next level? Have any of you done so...? |
|
|
ndb
209 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 17:51:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by art
JUst to put things in more concrete terms, let's say I'm on a run...half way through the run I have knee pain...Despite the fact that I'm 100 percent better at being able to talk myself out of the worry and fear that such pain always elicits, at leats initially, I've made almost no progress at all in being able to short circuit the fear response itself...I can deal with it once it arises, but I can't seem to find a way to cut if off at its source...
I'm wondering what some of you guys think...Is it possible to take it to the next level? Have any of you done so...?
I worry that if I'm not having the fear response, that means I'm suppressing something. So I am afraid to do anything to cut it off. I'd rather deal with it once it appears. Maybe this means I'm not at the level of 'normal' people. But can we ever be, given everything we know about TMS, and how sensitive to all this most of us are? |
 |
|
|
Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 00:21:14
|
Art,
I agree with you. I also made a huge effort to reduce my worry. It doesn't matter if your doing it for TMS or not, removing worry from your life is very important as it's a negative emotion. If you worry about things heaps, you might find you get pissed off about things more easily, cause you worry about them. You don't want to get pissed about silly things so you store it and you get pain. So you see, I think worry is just as important to get control of as any other emotional issue, to beat TMS pain. Worry is one stupid emotion, in my opinion.....it doesn't actually help in any given situation. Worry will not improve anything. If you have a concern about something, write it down, and then write down the solution. Then write down what you can do to create the solution. If you can do something, do it, if you can't then relax cause it's out of your hands right?! Of course you have to change, you have to change to learn how to handle your emotions better...........it's ALL for the better |
|
|
|
Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 01:25:09
|
| I have tried to look at it this way,,,,you can't solve all the world's problems. -Stryder |
|
|
|
art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 06:17:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Darko
Art,
I agree with you. I also made a huge effort to reduce my worry. It doesn't matter if your doing it for TMS or not, removing worry from your life is very important as it's a negative emotion. If you worry about things heaps, you might find you get pissed off about things more easily, cause you worry about them. You don't want to get pissed about silly things so you store it and you get pain. So you see, I think worry is just as important to get control of as any other emotional issue, to beat TMS pain. Worry is one stupid emotion, in my opinion.....it doesn't actually help in any given situation. Worry will not improve anything. If you have a concern about something, write it down, and then write down the solution. Then write down what you can do to create the solution. If you can do something, do it, if you can't then relax cause it's out of your hands right?! Of course you have to change, you have to change to learn how to handle your emotions better...........it's ALL for the better
Darko....Agreed.....Worrying is the dumbest activity in the world, especially when you take into account the toll it can take on our health...The fact is, 99 percent of the stuff we worry about never happens..So much mental anguish, and all for no good reason..
|
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 13:39:04
|
Art,
I have found that worrying has indeed solved all my problems in the past. How about you?
So keep worrying, it is the true road to a speedy recovery.......
Shawn |
|
|
|
altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 14:02:35
|
| I was a chronic worrier. keeping my focus on the present moment, and not thinking about the next thing, or 100 what-ifs, has helped. Past and future are really just thought forms. Thinking that who I am is this, my job, what I have, my accomplishments, what people have done to me is really just a bundle of thoughts that weigh us down. |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 15:45:00
|
"To be successful it must occupy one's attention and it works even better if you are totally preoccupied or obsessed by whatever it is."
---- John E Sarno- "Healing Back Pain" page 48
So straight from the good doc's mouth folks. Keep being totally preoccupied or obsessed with the pain and it will go away in no time. Think of more things to worry about and it will even speed up the recovery process. |
|
|
|
Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 16:42:57
|
Great post Art! I have always heard a very high percentage of the things we worry about NEVER even come to pass..so it is a useless emotion, indeed..Not sure what shawnsmith is getting at, or if he is joking in his response..Anyway..I have faith in you dear friend, you can reduce your worrying, you can do anything you put your mind into!
My knee has been acting up too..and I do my best to journal and read on here..but I do think some of it may be physical as i put on 12 pounds since coming to NYC..Too many Italians here..lol..too much of my boyfriend's mom, fantastic eggplant parmesean..:)
Anyway, I use ice on my knee and it helps, although i might just be placebo..The neck is still acting up sometimes too but i am doing my very best not to worry..
Hugs,
Karen |
|
|
|
altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 18:40:11
|
| I remembered from Dr. Shecter's cds, on his interview with Dr. Don Dubin, that they stressed the importance of "acceptance and surrender" to heal. I had phone therapy with Dr. Dubin, and asked him what this meant. He said it was acceptance and surrender to "what is", at this moment. I didn't really accept what is until a year or so later. My anxiety lessened, I could accept things from the past, and let them go. My worries reduced by 80%, my automatic negative thought also reduced. Dr. Dubin really helped me with past issues, in 4 sessions. |
|
|
|
carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 21:56:49
|
I don't know if I'd classify myself as a worrier. I guess I do have some of this tendency.
I find that a lot of my negative thoughts went away in concern with learning about TMS and about 6-8 months worth of talk therapy, though.
Yeah, what's your basic constitution? I feel like I have a tendency towards depressive thinking. When I'm down, I dig the hole deeper. I don't know if this is caused BY 7 years of TMS or what CAUSED 7 years of TMS.
Curious.
|
|
|
|
miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 23:35:13
|
| If the compulsion to worry is itself another TMS equivalent then I would think getting to the repressed rage would take care of the problem. But is this the source of the worry or is worrying something else that is just ingrained in our personality and can't really be changed? I know a lot of folks who don't have TMS but are chronic worriers so I would guess that the answer varies on a case by case basis. Interesting topic. |
|
|
|
wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 23:52:02
|
Art--Good to hear from you again. It has been a long time.
You might look at the "Anxiety" thread of the past several days too. Yes, worrying is such a useless and miserable thing, but simply knowing that is not enough. The problem is, worrying is a natural, life-preserving instinct as long as it is rational. But most of the worry we are discussing is irrational fear of the unknown. And fear of things, most of which never occur. Furthermore, worry changes the brain permanently. That's worrisome. Each time we respond to a situation this way it reinforces the fear and almost guarantees the same response next time, and the time after that, and after that. And each time the fear response takes hold even faster than previously. We become conditioned to respond this way with merely the slightest stimulus.
I've been thinking lately about the same thing you mentioned; getting at the source of the worry and fear and cutting it off there. All the rest--thinking differently, relaxation cd's, exercise, and all the rest work, but after the fact. It would be nice to prevent the fear response in the first place. Maybe it's a matter of using, getting skilled enough, at these techniques to make them second nature. The good news is that, just as worry can negatively alter the brain, evidence shows that the opposite-- changing our thinking, gratitude, simply a more positive spin on life, can alter it for the better. Neuroplasticity. |
|
|
|
Alpha
Germany
43 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 03:33:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by carbar
Yeah, what's your basic constitution? I feel like I have a tendency towards depressive thinking. When I'm down, I dig the hole deeper. I don't know if this is caused BY 7 years of TMS or what CAUSED 7 years of TMS.
I feel totally the same here. When my pains and problem get worse, i get really depressive and can't think about anything then my condition. In times when i feel good and relaxed, i don't really think about my condition rather about my goals and other positive things.
So i also wonder what was there first: The pain or the depression/Anxiety... |
|
|
|
art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 06:56:51
|
quote:
I've been thinking lately about the same thing you mentioned; getting at the source of the worry and fear and cutting it off there. All the rest--thinking differently, relaxation cd's, exercise, and all the rest work, but after the fact. It would be nice to prevent the fear response in the first place. Maybe it's a matter of using, getting skilled enough, at these techniques to make them second nature. The good news is that, just as worry can negatively alter the brain, evidence shows that the opposite-- changing our thinking, gratitude, simply a more positive spin on life, can alter it for the better. Neuroplasticity.
At last...exactly what I'm getting at...I've often wondered about whether these neurological changes worked in reverse...that's great news...Do you know how that study was designed?
Thanks wrld!!
HI Karen...Thanks for the words of encouragement...Send me an e-mail, let me know how things are going!!! |
|
|
|
h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 09:44:37
|
Just in case anybody read Shawnsmith's message in this topic, and got confused by it.
That quote from Sarno is a quote regarding what TMS must do to be successful, not what YOU must do to successfully conquer it.
Obviously, the thing to do to be successful at conquering TMS is NOT to obssess about your pain and symptoms.
I don't think he was being conbative, maybe he just misunderstood the quote. |
|
|
|
Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 13:40:09
|
If you're interested in recent research into the brain's neuroplasticity, you might enjoy the book Social Intelligence, by Daniel Goleman. (There's another book by the same title by someone else--I don't know what it's about.) While Goleman's book does focus on how our interactions with others are both driven by our brain function and how the interactions drive our brain function, all of the basic information underlying the relationship stuff is the neuroscience of the brain, including how the brain circuits develop and the fact that they can be changed, at least to some extent.
Some people don't care for Goleman's books because he does tend to be wordy at times. Similar information can be found on the internet. For example, there was a thread a while back about why you should be around happy people that had some links to articles on the topic.
I find it really encouraging to know that the brain can be changed, even if it's still a challenge at times to know exactly how to bring about changes for the better. |
|
|
|
wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 00:17:41
|
Art--If you want in-depth information on the subject, just do a google search on "neuroplasticity." In brief, the idea is that the brains circuits change through experience--good or bad experience. Whatever is emphasized most often, whether it be worry, fear, anger, compassion, love, or even a skill, such as meditation or playing a musical instrument, develops that part of the brain. So really, you could look at the positive feelings as being a sort of antidote to the negative feelings. It's a lot more complicated than that, of course, but that's the general idea.
This really is a positive thing, neuroplasticity, because it shows our biology, our past experiences may be amenable to correction. There is hope. |
|
|
|
art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 05:51:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
Art--If you want in-depth information on the subject, just do a google search on "neuroplasticity." In brief, the idea is that the brains circuits change through experience--good or bad experience. Whatever is emphasized most often, whether it be worry, fear, anger, compassion, love, or even a skill, such as meditation or playing a musical instrument, develops that part of the brain. So really, you could look at the positive feelings as being a sort of antidote to the negative feelings. It's a lot more complicated than that, of course, but that's the general idea.
This really is a positive thing, neuroplasticity, because it shows our biology, our past experiences may be amenable to correction. There is hope.
It's revealing of my basic mind set that though I was aware thaat the brain could be changed....I know it has in my case...that it was generally for the worse...It's very good news indeed that the tide can be turned... |
|
|
|
miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 10:45:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by art
JUst to put things in more concrete terms, let's say I'm on a run...half way through the run I have knee pain...Despite the fact that I'm 100 percent better at being able to talk myself out of the worry and fear that such pain always elicits, at leats initially, I've made almost no progress at all in being able to short circuit the fear response itself...I can deal with it once it arises, but I can't seem to find a way to cut if off at its source...
Art- If this example is what actually happens to you then the worry preceeds the TMS symptom. If that is true then I suspect that accurate thinking rather then positive thinking is the best approach to dealing with the worry. My cousin case comes to mind. She also had debilitating knee pain when running. She was able to banish the pain by thinking about how angry she was at a primary source figure and even feeling about it. This was effective in banishing the symptom immediately.
I can tell you from my experience that positive experience was a complete waste of time for me. Accurate thinking and feeling my true early in life feelings was key. |
|
|
|
armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 11:03:13
|
I've read in a few articles that meditation can also effect very positive changes in the brain -- changes in measured brain waves that indicate a "calmer" mind state. So there are a lot of things that can change the brain, I guess.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
How much can we change?
