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seeker
USA
5 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2006 : 18:28:15
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| I am new to Dr. Sarno's books and have found great relief in what I have learned so far. However, my spouse (who I believe also suffers from TMS) cannot seem to accept this concept and continues to seek physical treatments for pain - even though nothing has really seemed to help. I was wondering if any of you have dealt with a similar circumstance and have found a way to cope with it. |
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Tunza
New Zealand
198 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 18:38:05
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I really believe that the harder you try to change someone else's mind on this the more resistant they will be to the idea.
Pressure = resistance.
If you back off they are more likely to get curious about it in their own time. It's hard when you care deeply about someone to "let go" of trying to persuade them but ultimately it's usually best.
If they give it go to please you then they may not get the full benefits anyway, since their heart may not be in it and then they might turn around and say "I told you I didn't have TMS"
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Edited by - Tunza on 12/03/2006 23:09:16 |
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seeker
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 19:30:01
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Tunza,
I agree with what you say and have realized that trying to "sell" this diagnosis is counter-productive. My struggle is how should I respond when I hear things like “My back is really hurting today.”
I want to say something like “Have you been journaling?” or “I find it helps to re-read Dr. Sarno’s book if I start to feel pain again.” but I know that would be pushy.
Normally I am just silent, but then I feel like I am not being supportive. |
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
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seeker
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 23:33:13
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SS,
Thank you. Reading the previous discussions in the link you posted helped me see that I am not the only one in this situation - which is what I thought would be true. I suffered from chronic pain for nearly 30 years before I was introduced to Dr. Sarno’s book and found relief, so I guess I should be patient with my spouse. I also appreciate the encouragement that has been written to me from my question.
Something puzzles me, however. As I read through the link you posted and several other threads I was reading, I noticed something that seems odd to me about many of the people who post on this forum – they seem to keep struggling with TMS symptoms for several years. I was under the impression from Dr. Sarno’s book that people who have TMS and can accept this diagnosis usually get healed after a few months or maybe a year at most. This has been true in my own case. My main reason for posting on this forum was because I haven’t found any literature about communicating this truth with others (i.e., my spouse) and so I posted my question.
It almost seems like this forum is the way many of the people who post here keep TMS in check. I am not saying that this is a bad thing; it’s just not what I expected.
Anyway, thank you again and may we all keep learning and growing. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 09:11:06
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Sorta along the same lines as what everyone else said...
Say no more. When your spouse sees you are out of pain, curiousity will start to foster an interest (hopefully).
I can't get most people to buy into it either and I just sit back when they complain of all their back pain, foot pain, etc. and say "yeah, I hear ya, I used to have that, thank God I don't anymore." |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 09:16:43
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Quoteing Seeker:
"I noticed something that seems odd to me about many of the people who post on this forum – they seem to keep struggling with TMS symptoms for several years. I was under the impression from Dr. Sarno’s book that people who have TMS and can accept this diagnosis usually get healed after a few months or maybe a year at most. This has been true in my own case."
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A lot of people seem to be under that mis-conception. As they say in the commercials, "your results may vary". TMS does not lend itself well to having it's results quantified by the "clinical" yardsticks of "moderne science". That is more about test-tubes and rats. TMS is more of an art than a science in that regard. It is a study of the unconscious which we are just starting to map. Freud and Sarno are like Columbus and Magellan in that regard. Medical science's view of the mind is mostly that it is a flat universe. It's all about bp's and temps. The mindbody approach takes a sophistication that the exam room and the ER has little time for, but plentyh of room to do.
Everyone's mind, body and life history will vary. Some may read the book once and get the "book-cure", other's may take longer, other's maybe never. No two cases CAN be alike.
To think of being "cured" of TMS is a misnomer and at odds with the nature of the beast. As long as we have a mind, a body and a life, short of a lobotomy TMS is not something we should view as something to be cured of. I have no TMS phsyical symptoms at the moment, but that is not to say that by the end of the day, depending upon what life and the gremlin throw my way, that I may not develop one.
My right hip has been dx'ed by two Sarno trained MD's as not TMS (although one said it was both). So I will not get anymore imaging for it to re-inforce the nocebo effect, instead I do what is called in arthritis terms "management".
I have warded off many physical and mental TMS symptoms due to my TMS penicilin knowledge gained by studying the books and materials. They have varied from muscle twinges, colds to depression.
I'm here at the board not asking for any help for TMS symptoms, but to learn more about TMS theory. I'm about half way through THE DIVIDED MIND and look forward to retiring from the board after I complete reading it. After viewing the board long enough, TMS pain patterns do emerge and it is not neccessary to read through all the posts. I would reccommend anyone new here to do a search of the archives and they can see that they are not alone in their syptoms. That's probably the major hurdle in overcoming TMS pain, the isolation and misconception that we suffer alone and our pain is unique. The point of the Good Doctor's "cure" is to acquire the "TMS knowledge penicilin"--learning the rules of the TMS game, so to speak, and learning to play the TMS-ball rather than letting it play us. That takes some practice along with the knowledge, but if you just show-up it will work. |
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ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 10:13:35
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Seeker,
I would have to agree with those saying, "Don't push too hard." I have even lost my happy marriage as a result of trying to get my wife to see that TMS was her likely diagnosis. Her resistance was unbelievable. She wouldn't even see a TMS qualified doctor.
She is still in pain after 5 years of chronic back pain, and even had a spinal fusion operation last May. My sad story is at:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=766
Best,
Ralph |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 16:49:47
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Hi seeker,
I agree with many replies to your post. To add my 2 cents...
Tunza said: If you back off they are more likely to get curious about it in their own time.
This is lead by example. There is no selling involved. The fact that person A was in chronic pain, and is now living a normal life, is hard for person B to ignore the TMS diagnosis forever. Even if very subborn, once person B has exhausted all the options of the medical/industiral complex they really have nothing to loose. If the docs can't solve your pain then they must have the wrong diagnosis for you. Sarno Wins !
seeker said: My struggle is how should I respond when I hear things like “My back is really hurting today.”
Since, as you know, the pain is real, all you can do is be sympathetic that your spouse is hurting since the pain is real. You are not obligated to "say" anything about TMS on an ongoing basis so don't.
seeker said: I suffered from chronic pain for nearly 30 years before I was introduced to Dr. Sarno’s book and found relief, so I guess I should be patient with my spouse.
Good point. When dealing with TMS from any perspective, time is your friend and your enemy. You will get better over time, but let it take all the time it needs. Do not put time into any equation or desire to get well. Trying to make a schedule for recovery will doom you and just add to your inner rage bank.
seeker said: It almost seems like this forum is the way many of the people who post here keep TMS in check.
Journaling is extremely helpful for many DXed with TMS. Alternatively, some members, like myself, use the forum as an outlet instead of journaling. Personlly, I've found much more benefit from sharing my views with people who know exactly where I'm coming from than writing into a private journal. The bottom line is that you do what is best for you, one, the other or both.
Take care, -Stryder |
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seeker
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 21:02:39
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Thank you all: Tunza, sonora sky, Maryalma8, tennis tom, ralphyde and Stryder. You have all been very helpful and thoughtful: your advice well taken. And, I am so sorry about your wife, ralphyde.
I pray that all of us may continue to find healing through the truth we have learned and that our example might help others to see the path to healing.
Thanks again,
seeker |
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cheeryquery
Canada
56 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 01:48:33
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Not one of my family and friends (all moaning and groaning with tms) has really responded to Sarno's ideas. They get mad, listen and argue/reject, or just ignore me. I have pretty much given up on them except to continue to point out, as delicately as I can, that the problem is possibly not physical. My husband, for example, asks (maybe once a day) "why me?" and I always answer "narcissistic rage". He takes it pretty well which is good because I can't lie to the man.
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 12:15:40
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TMS is like "faith." You cannot force it on anyone or make them believe no matter how much you want them to. In fact, the harder you try the harder they will resist you. The best you can do is plant the seed and then see if it grows or not. Remember, our society is 100% conditioned into believing that physical pain = a physical problem thant can only be rectified via physical means. It is hard to break through that rigid thinking and see the problem in a completely differnt paradigm.
Thankfully, my wife is 100% sold on TMS and has told many other people about it also. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 12/05/2006 13:27:56 |
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Jeff
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 13:18:50
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| Sarno will not work for anyone who is not ready to completely believe in the diagnosis. Wanting to believe is not enough. Believing some of the time is not enough. Believing with your mind is not enough. You have to really believe it in your mind, heart and soul -- it has to feel right as your diagnosis. And there is no way you can get someone else to that point by yourself. At most you can suggest that someone read the books, and then see if they are in a position to develop the core belief system necessary to get well. If they are, then maybe they will get better. If they aren't, there isn't much you can do. I struggled to get better for a few months, but what was going on was that I wanted to believe, but really didn't. Part of me still thought it was something else. Then something inside me clicked -- finally -- and I really believed in the diagnosis, and that's when I got much better. It comes from within. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 17:22:49
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Jeff said: ...You have to really believe it in your mind, heart and soul -- it has to feel right as your diagnosis...
The first time I read HBP, I saw myself all over the pages. I'm like, "Oh my ..., this guy Sarno is IN MY HEAD. He is writing the words on the page FROM MY MIND."
I was astonished, amazed, (relieved) that someone had finally figured it out. One path of my life ended abruptly that day. A new journey started.
Take care, -Stryder |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 01:17:02
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Stryder, thanks for posting that quote and the link to your profile with all the sayings you've collected. The one from MaryAlma8 was just what I needed today. (My pain stays away until I start catastrophizing.
-- Maryalma8)
Corey |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 09:16:08
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quote:
( Stryder) I'm like, "Oh my ..., this guy Sarno is IN MY HEAD. He is writing the words on the page FROM MY MIND."
That's how I felt when I re-read MBP the second time and actually paid attention. I was constanly going "Oh, that's me. Yep, that. Yes, exactly."
But it took true desperation for me to actually pay attention. I found later that someone had tried to recommend Sarno to me once before, and I had tried it once before, but no go the previous times.
I've told my family, and friends with RSI, about it and recommended it to them. My mom appears to think it's legitimate, but it clearly hasn't clicked for her, because every time I talk to her she's on about some new pain relief thing she's trying. (Usually it's a new acupuncture doctor, since she's training in Oriental medicine right now.) I sometimes remind her that she should attend to Sarno, but it seems to go right through her.
She'll come around in the end or she won't, and the same in true of everyone. They know it worked for me. That and a few occasional mentions of it are all I can do without turning them off (like others have said, leading by example). It's hard to watch them suffer, but I've managed to dissociate myself from it a little, knowing it is their choice and theirs only. We don't have control over others, only influence (and not even that if we don't use it wisely), and what they ultimately choose is their own responsibility.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 10:27:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Littlebird
Stryder, thanks for posting that quote and the link to your profile with all the sayings you've collected. The one from MaryAlma8 was just what I needed today. (My pain stays away until I start catastrophizing.
-- Maryalma8)
Corey
This one says it all as well...
Treating TMS means taking responsibility for your own healing.
-- Dave
Take care, -Stryder |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 10:51:11
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I sent my wife an e-mail this morning as I am having on of this crapola days. I wrote:
"My heart is very heavy today and not too many smiles. But I appreciate the effort to make me happy. I am afraid that no matter how much I tell myself that I am happy and content, there are a lof of tears in the inside."
This how she replied:
Dear Hub,
"Who wouldn't find a lot of tears on the inside? Yes, they cause sadness and they cause anger and they turn into rage... But who said that we have to live them again and again to deal with our TMS? Just like John Nash in Beautiful Mind, we acknowledge their presence, tell them that we are not letting them wreak havoc in our lives, and keep on going with our lives. We acknowledge that the pain is caused by TMS, and know that we do not have a physical abnormality. And then try to go on living the best way we can...
Look again ... You will also find a lot of good on the inside: happy times, many acts of kindness - given and received, many loving people... These are worth re-experiencing much more than the tears..."
end quote
Now you tell me, who would not want to have a spouce like that? God, I am lucky!!!
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 00:08:30
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I was furious when first presented with Healing Back Pain 10 years ago.
In the last year I finally bottomed out and bought TDM. But I wouldn't read it. It just sat there and I snarled at it. Looking back it was almost as though I knew I was "busted."
One night I read the whole book at one sitting. It was like a religious epiphany, as I have desribed before. When I woke up with my fibro pain at 3 am I was just starting my usual routine to handle the symptoms when I realized I should try it out.
I asked myself what I was really feeling and started breathing (connected conscious breathing which I've been doing for 30 years and I had already explored my illness with lots of times). I realized I was furious at my dad (who was in process of dying and I was giving him all the love I could). Next day I was 80% cured.
Now I'm in a TMS bout. The first layer I have to journal through is annoyance that - like an addiction - this TMS tendency is still playing in me. But beneath that is all kinds of juicy stuff that part of me is angry about. Just acknowledging it is very effective I find.
Anyway, I just wanted to sympathize because I am ALWAYS trying to turn people on to this stuff, and the truth is, we ain't ready till we're ready.
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
Edited by - Wavy Soul on 12/07/2006 00:11:39 |
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floorten
United Kingdom
120 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 07:02:58
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ReferFire: When I said post first and make friends, I didnt mean what you're doing here.
Just writing "Me too. By the way here are all my websites" does not count.
Your post is totally off-topic and, quite miraculously, actually SHORTER than your sig!
I'm not an admin here, but if I was, I would have banned you already. You're coming across like a script-kiddie who believes he can "get rich quick" from referral programs. Get a clue!!
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"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
Edited by - floorten on 12/09/2006 07:05:48 |
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Spouse unable to accept TMS
