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holly
USA
243 Posts |
 Posted - 11/20/2006 : 08:23:57
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| I told him about my neuroma situation. Over the phone he say's it's a tendon. A tendon inflammed by TMS. Called my neuroma "nonsense". Asked if I had a MRI that showed one. You know I didn't have a MRI. Would that conferm it then???????????????? Dr. sarno practically before even hearing what I am going to tell him always decides it is TMS. Seems to me I need a MRI to conferm his point for my on minds sake. then I will truly know what's what right and my mind would be convienced. I didn't even know that a MRI would show a neuroma ! He swears it's a tendon over the phone in 2 seconds. The MRI would be a good test for his theory wouldn't it??????? Wouldn't it!!! |
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nporat
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 08:59:36
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Hi Holly,
How did you get to talk to Sarno, I would love to speak with him!
Nikki |
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holly
USA
243 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 09:14:27
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Once you have seen him personally in his office then he would speak to you over the phone and you have to live in ny,ct. or nj.
I am making a MRI appt for Monday the 27th. I feel this will either prove or disprove if I have TMS or a real neuroma. MRI is an accurate diagnostic tool for seeing this. So we will see if Dr. Sarno just dismisses everything as tms for once an for all. I hope it is TMS frankly but I doubt it. We shall see. This will be an interesting experiment. I am not even telling my husband about this because he always would believe Sarno first. Remember guys Sarno just told me on the phone that it is "nonsense that I have a neuroma" stating that it is an oxygen deprived tendon due to TMS. I told him the shoe story too!! |
Edited by - holly on 11/20/2006 09:24:18 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 10:02:17
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" So we will see if Dr. Sarno just dismisses everything as tms for once an for all. I hope it is TMS frankly but I doubt it. We shall see."
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Dr. Sarno does NOT dismiss everything as TMS. I just read in TDM that during his initial physical exam, he is able to dx "legitimate" diseases and injuries. I would guesstimate about 80% of things are TMS.
My guess would be Dr. Sarno knows a foot neuroma when he sees one over the phone and I'm putting my money on him. And, if he should be wrong on your foot, is the world going to stop turning? The worst thing that will happen is that you won't be able to wear f***me shoes? There are always Birkenstocks and Hushpuppies. I'll bet a crumpet that the Good Doctor is right! Any takers? |
Edited by - tennis tom on 11/20/2006 10:05:06 |
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nporat
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 10:12:03
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Holly,
I really hope the MRI goes well and that it is TMS. I know how freakin scary it could be, please let me know how it works out.
Nikki |
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holly
USA
243 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 10:29:41
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tennis tom there is nothing I would like more than for this to be TMS! Let's get that straight. I am not a newbie here and totally understand the concept, preached it and have made it work for me in the past. But what I don't like is once you are TMS prone like myself (I admit) that when anything that happens it must be TMS induced! I have had TMS back, neck, leg & skin disorders which all did go away many years ago. I understand substitution totally. My feet problems( 3 yr. old polyneurophy and now this probable recent neuroma) I have a feeling are just not TMS. These pains don't come and go. They are always there. The area where the neuroma is is exactly as described when I researched just now about MRI diagnoses and neuroma and is percisely where I have it. I never even heard of neuroma till now. As far as the F***** shoes you mentioned... being a guy you couldn't possibly understand me wanting to get out of a pair of F***** sneakers for once when going to a special event. NO I can't wear Birkenstocks or Hushppies to a wedding or funeral service you s****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh and thanks Nikki !! |
Edited by - holly on 11/20/2006 10:32:32 |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 11:02:45
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hello again, holly--
The problem with MRI and diagnosis of neuromas is that they can be found in about 30% of people without any foot problems. So, like herniated disks and other abnormalities on the spine, it is unclear if they are the cause of the pain, or an incidental finding.
I know, everything is complicated... |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 11:09:31
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" NO I can't wear Birkenstocks or Hushppies to a wedding or funeral service you s****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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I'm from frisco, people wear anything they want around here and often that is nothing.
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 11:33:30
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Holly, I can't say what your situation is, but I can say that the pain being constant doesn't mean it is not TMS.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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kevin t
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 11:52:15
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Some times even experts can be wrong.The thing that worries me is when someone has an acyuall PHYSICAL reason fro pain and it gets dismissed. A mistake like that can get someone killed possibly. Also, Ive noticed that when someone comes along with a revolutionary answer to problems, theeir practice becomes CULTISH in nature to some believers. It becomes "Well so and so, did MIRACLES for me, so he MUST be correct at all times".
Even Dr Sarno has said some curious things in my view. Things that dont add up. For instance, a SMALL percentage of people with back injuries lose most if not COMPLETE use of their bladder/bowels due to back injury. Some end up in wheel chairs from this. Its called Cauda Equina Syndrome.Yes its a real thing, and yes it is caused by disc injury. If someone is walking around pissing and ****ing on themselves and cant feel their genitals, should they "work through the pain" or "get in touch with their rage"? These things make me wonder how someone can dismiss all as TMS.
I have no experience with "neuromas" but its curious how someone can diagnose over the phone. Reminds me when Senator Bill Frist (MD) diagnosed Terri Shiavo from watching a video of her and expressed it throughout the halls of congress and even wrote legislation based on what he "saw". My point is that WE are the PATIENTS and the ones in pain. We have ALL been mislead by some "expert" at some time or another. Would it be ridiculous to think that another "expert" would get it wrong also like so many before? Even Einsteins theories can be debated. It doesnt mean he was a snake oil salesman, it just means he may not of known it all. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 11:53:46
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Remember that you are his patient. He has seen you and examined you. He knows your history. I'm sure he is very confident in his diagnosis.
Seems to me TMS this time has succeeded very well in making you obsessive about a possible structural problem. |
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holly
USA
243 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 13:28:05
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Kevin that is exactly what I have been trying to say. Very well put!
Dave either I have a neuroma or I don't. Now I will be able to find out. Of course I probably could of done something like "straining" a tendon when walking in those heels and pushing up on my toes in such a sharp angel that I am not accustomed to. the ongoing pain could more logically then be explained as TMS. Otherwise the strain should go away. It was getting better till I put on a too pointy shoe on last week for a funeral service for a neighbors father I attented which would definitly aggraviate a neuroma if one was there. We shall see! Again I would prefer this will turn out to be TMS rather thaan an actual neuroma. |
Edited by - holly on 11/20/2006 19:06:49 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 15:21:11
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As Tom said, what looks like a neuroma on an MRI can be a benign, normal change in the body that does not cause pain, much like a herniated disc does not cause pain.
I think it is a mischaracterization to say that Dr. Sarno dismisses everything as TMS. We are talking here about a specific diagnosis for a patient of his based on his evaluation. It is not uncommon for TMS patients to develop new symptoms, and his clinical experience is telling him that this is what is happening here. Dr. Sarno is not a witch doctor, he is an M.D.
Perhaps one day in the future you will re-read this thread and realize the TMS gremlin got you again. It is so easy to fall into its traps. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 16:58:24
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"As Tom said, what looks like a neuroma on an MRI can be a benign, normal change in the body that does not cause pain, much like a herniated disc does not cause pain."
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Gotta' give DrZiggles credit for the above, I think he said it, not me, but with my verbose verbiage, I've probably said everything by now and then some.
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holly
USA
243 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 19:51:46
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if there is a neuroma detected by MRI in the exact spot where my pain is then that would explain everything pretty much as far as I am concerned here. After Sarno questioned me "did you have a MRI conferming a neuroma?" I googled "Neuroma MRI Diagnosis" and came up with THE ROLE OF MRI IN DIAGNOSIS OF MORTON NEUROMA an in depth study/article. Very interesting and informitive. I feel confident that if they do find this it would explain my radiating pain in this area. I found this most interesting and I quote "The type of shoes worn by women is thought to be the cause of the female predominance. It's commonly seen in the age group (40-60year old). "The most common presentation is pain radiating from the middle part of the foot to the tip of the toes with localized tenderness over the lesion. Morton Neuroma is also presented with numbness of the distal part of the foot".
This is exacty what I have in the exact area it would be in and I never ever heard of mortons neuroma before or new it's symptoms let alone a location of one. So if one is truly now present there on my foot in this case I think that would just explain it. If nothing is there at all well then I guess I have TMS that is presenting itself exactly like mortons neuroma. I hope truly Tennis tom wins his bet! Then I could rest easier. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 20:57:50
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I bet on your tombstone it's gonna' say :
"Here Lies Holly, Died With Her Four Inch Heels On"
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Nor
152 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2006 : 21:16:19
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Hi Holly,
I had a Morton's neuroma about12 years ago. I was in a cast for a long time and the consensus was that the pressure on the bones of the foot for so long cause irritation of the nerve...not sure why he said "tendon" but anyway....I believe it was a neuroma caused by the cast. However, I was treated w/steroid injections 2X or so and it kept coming back. This, I believe was TMS. Unbeknownst to me at the time. Anyway, it eventually went away and recently came back for about 2 days after trying on a new pair of high boots. Now I wear the boots and I don't get the pain.
To make a long story short, your diagnosis could be legit but if its becoming chronic, then maybe its TMS.
Nor |
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holly
USA
243 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2006 : 06:08:44
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[quote]Originally posted by tennis tom
I bet on your tombstone it's gonna' say :
"Here Lies Holly, Died With Her Four Inch Heels On"
Boy.... can't help but wonder what women out there has you so enraged????? Are you related to Sienfeld's "kramer"???
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2006 : 07:52:54
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quote:
Originally posted by holly
if there is a neuroma detected by MRI in the exact spot where my pain is then that would explain everything pretty much as far as I am concerned here.
OK, but then you are forgetting about the finer points of TMS, that symptoms appear at the exact spot of an "abnormality" in order to be most convincing.
quote:
Then I could rest easier.
At least until the gremlin gets you again.
I don't mean to completely dismiss what you are saying. I just find it interesting that you went through the trouble and great expense of getting diagnosed by Dr. Sarno himself, yet it doesn't seem as if you really trust his diagnosis and continue to go down the road of structural explanations for your pain. |
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holly
USA
243 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2006 : 08:17:05
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| Dave I was only diagnosed over the phone by Sarno. (I saw him about 10 years ago with my back which is now fine). He only made the diagnosis based on my history not a physical exam in his office. He asked me if I got an MRI. I told him no. (It didn't even occur to me about getting an MRI). So The MRI if anything would help differienciate now if there is actually even something in that spot or indeed it is tendernitis caused by TMS. My gut instinct is it is a small neuroma. Hopefully I am wrong. |
Edited by - holly on 11/21/2006 08:18:11 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2006 : 08:33:49
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A common trait of those haveing foot TMS is NO sense of humor.
What have your feet done to you to enrage you so much that you put them through such torture, cramming them into such an unnatural postition all in the name of vanity?
quote:
Originally posted by holly
[quote]Originally posted by tennis tom
I bet on your tombstone it's gonna' say :
"Here Lies Holly, Died With Her Four Inch Heels On"
Boy.... can't help but wonder what women out there has you so enraged????? Are you related to Sienfeld's "kramer"???
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Edited by - tennis tom on 11/21/2006 09:05:21 |
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OK so I spoke to Sarno on the phone this morning
