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neilo
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
 Posted - 10/13/2006 : 06:03:22
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Hi all
Im a little confused about a chap in Sarno's MBP.
He mentions the "pavlovian dogs", how dogs were fed at the same time every day. Then would start to salivate at that time every day.
sarno says that in the same way, we unconciously train or condition ourselves to expect pain at certain times or after certain activities.
I tend to get tightness and some soreness the day after playing guitar. Im not sure how this fits in with the general diagnosis of repressed emotions though.
Any thoughts ?
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2006 : 06:30:04
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Well, the dogs were trained to salivate at the ringing of a bell, and meat was offered. Pavlov did this a number of times, until the dog was conditioned to salivate when the bell rang, it expected to see the meat. In other words, it was so used to hearing the bell ring, then receiving the meat. When we get pain doing a certain activity, we become like the dog, we expect the pain, therefore we get the pain.
Maybe you get frustrated with playing the guitar. Do you get frustrated when trying to learn a new song or when you mess up? Do you expect to play perfectly, like Stevie Ray Vaughn? |
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neilo
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2006 : 08:14:59
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Thanks scoopy ( can i call you that ? )
I am hard on myself sometimes and am aware that could be a major
part of my troubles.
I guess my question is, is conditioning a separate diagnosis
to TMS ?
It looks that way to me.
If it is, should it be treated differently ?
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2006 : 09:08:07
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Hi Neilo,
Conditioning IS TMS. Now that you've read MBP, I would reccommend reading the Good Doctor's latest book, THE DIVIDED MIND. It explains the psychology of TMS in greater depth and will help you re-condition your mindbody.
Cheers and Good Luck,
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2006 : 10:35:21
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Conditioning is something that our minds do to perpetuate TMS and make it more believeable. After all, if you always get pain on activity, the activity must be causing it, right? It's all part of the same thing.
Fred Amir's book has some good tips for getting rid of the conditioning. But it all starts with the core belief: that we are physically strong and capable and our pain doesn't come from activity. Once you believe that you can feel free to do anything you want whether you get pain or not. Hopefully the pain goes away once you refuse to believe in it. But if it doesn't then a specific deconditioning (Amir uses rewards and punishments for the unconscious) can be helpful.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Jim1999
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2006 : 23:11:12
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Neilo,
You're right that repressed emotions and conditioning are two different things, but Dr. Sarno has found that they often work together.
Here's one way that I picture that the two could work together. After some activity, an unrelated stressful event happens. The pain and/or tightness starts to repress the emotions from the event. Later, after the same activity, there is another stressful event resulting in more symptoms. At this point, only repressed emotions have caused the symptoms.
But now there is a pattern starting between the activity and the symptoms. Conditioning starts to take over and will reproduce the symptoms automatically after the activity. The symptoms are on auto-pilot and no longer need repressed emotions to trigger them.
This is just one example of how repressed emotions and conditioning might work together. I don't think you need to find out exactly how they work together, just know that they do.
Hope this helps,
Jim
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2006 : 06:15:00
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| It is rather simple. You make a certain movement and you experience pain. You make the movement again and once again you experience pain. You do it a third time and, presto, there is the pain again. Now the movement and the pain are linked in your mind and you take steps to avoid that movement. Doing so, however, is sending a message back to yourself that you have a physical problem and thus, despite all your mental efforts, the pain continues. I am still battling with this myself. It is the thwarting of this conditioning that is the big challenge. |
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conditioning verses repressed emotions
