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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
 Posted - 09/05/2006 : 18:39:24
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Wow!
A lot of interesting and moving points here. I am excited to learn that my behind was built for speed, not cellulite. :)
I can understand your point about all the "just walking..." advice. What I hear from those posts about 20-30 minutes a day, yada yada, is that there is joy in giving your body this time each day. I think running encourages that more than walking coz it's not part of daily moving around, it's something we do for it's own sake.
Also, that "just do it" attitude sounds like the motivation us perfectionists have to give ourselves. Because it's always been so easy for me to get sidetracked by things like: maybe your form isn't perfect/correct/safe, maybe your arm could be swinging more efficiently, maybe you could have cleaned the kitchen a litle better, maybe you'll have to shower twice today and dinner will be late, etc...I find the JUST DO IT attitude effective, and I'm working now to see what the "next level" means for me. I'm seriously considering taking up running now that I know my "bad knee" is related to TMS more than anything else.
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 18:42:11
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quote:
Excellent advice from everyone. I just feel so sad when you post that you cry when someone is nice to you. Like Beth, I was exactly the same way. In therapy, I dug up old feelings of unworthiness that I'd buried. "I don't need anyone to take care of me, I'll do it myself!" and "I'm not good enough." I've learned it's OK to be cared for, you're worth it. But some days I still feel uncared for, and those are the days I then care for myself.
It's so funny what can bring us to tears, right? I find myself on the verge of tears all the time these days, and when I was younger I was NEVER someone who cried in public. I'm definitely looking at the unworthiness right now. It's shocking.
I like that you say that you care for yourself. I'm curious a little what that means for you? Is that journaling?
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 19:27:24
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quote:
Originally posted by carbar
quote:
Excellent advice from everyone. I just feel so sad when you post that you cry when someone is nice to you. Like Beth, I was exactly the same way. In therapy, I dug up old feelings of unworthiness that I'd buried. "I don't need anyone to take care of me, I'll do it myself!" and "I'm not good enough." I've learned it's OK to be cared for, you're worth it. But some days I still feel uncared for, and those are the days I then care for myself.
It's so funny what can bring us to tears, right? I find myself on the verge of tears all the time these days, and when I was younger I was NEVER someone who cried in public. I'm definitely looking at the unworthiness right now. It's shocking.
I like that you say that you care for yourself. I'm curious a little what that means for you? Is that journaling?
As a guy, I've all sorts of complicated feelings about crying...I never weep, but all sorts of things bring tears to my eyes, which is funny because that wasn't the case for most of my life...I've heard that as men age, they become a little softer, a little more feminine, while women go the other way...This is a result of cetain inevitable hormonal changes...At age 55, I'm not sure if I qualify for these changes yet, but perhaps so... |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 21:41:10
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Hey carbar,
Thanks for picking up and amplifying the "just do it" message. It really reminded me that taking two showers or having dinner late isn't the end of the world and I need to remember not to wait for just the right day to do things! I'm pretty active but I'm trying to do more, as I've found it helps, and the mental block of needing to prep for things and change my schedule is a big one for me.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 22:10:22
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It was as if somebody was caring about me for the FIRST time. As I remember, my folks were sort of the opposite. They were the "Oh, quit your martyr routine" type. I never DARED show negative emotions around them.
I totally relate to you and feel much empathy for you right now.
Thank you Beth for saying this , also Michele and carbar, Beth I never thought of it as being cared about for the first time, but I guess this is the feeling I experience then, what an insight, thank you, I never dared show emotions as a child either, invisible was the best way to be.
Art, getting softer as a man gets older, feeling more compassion for human kind, this is when a man becomes the best that he can be.
Now on the subject of exersise, a bit touchy maybe, I have a feeling that kether feels a bit misunderstood, I can only talk from my own experience with fibro, I used to walk six miles a day without fail, forty below weather never stopped me, I was obsessed, it was the greatest anxiety relief I ever experience and the reason I started to wlk in the first place, BUT THAT WAS BEFORE FIBRO, I can't do this anymore, like Kether I GO THROUGH WEEKS OF COSCHOCONDRATIS, this feels like trying to breathe and walk with a knife in one's chest, I agree that one cannot sit on the couch all day either, but fibro is abit different as it affects your whole body, and Kether is right when she says it feels like having the flu with it's accompanying tireness all the time, it takes not days but weeks to recover from overdoing anything. I think it is safe to say that the majority of people with fibro were physically active prior to having it, I know I was, I thrived on doing.
From what I read on the subject, it is recommended to start very very slow, one block or two at a time and build up gradually, I have never been one to do things gradually so whenever I tried to exersise I overdid it, was in agony for days and quit.
I know that I am not a wimp, I had major surgery and breezed through it, was released from the hospital early and never took the pain meds that I was given, it was nothing compared to the muscle pain I experience and I used this as a base for comparison. I am being as candid as I can be on this subject, I have mixed feelings about the merits of exersise with fibro, it would have to be very moderate in order to be beneficial, the facility to recuperate after any energy output is limited. Now I have no desire to start a whole debate on the subject, I am not saying that I have all the answers either, I can only talk about my own experience, maybe the secret is to go at it very slow and to do it every day, I don't walk every day, I will drag the vacum upstairs and clean and consider this exercise, I guess it does not work the same way.
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 00:44:50
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In Dr. Sarno's newest book, TDM, a study he mentions, showed positive results for psychotherapy and exercise, for "curing" TMS.
If I had only one of the two to choose from, it would definitely be exercise. I don't think psycho-therapy would have as much benefit without the exercise part.
As a species, we haven't been out of the cave that long, relatively speaking. Our evolutionary ancestors certainly had to MOVE more than we do, just to survive not being eaten by lions or the neighboring tribe and for hunting and gathering. It's only been in the last hundred years, thanks to the industrial revolution, that we have not had to get off our butts to survive.
Our bodies are evolving into huge heads, ambulating about on electric mobility devices like Segways or elcectic wheelchairs.
All that trapped energy, created by our mindbodies, has to come out someplace. It can be spent at a pace of our choosing, through walking, running, swimming, etc., or involuntarily, through TMS symptoms like nervousness, anxiety, spasms, twitches, restless foot, kicking the dog or throwing dishes at your spouse.
You can play the ball or the TMS gremlin can play you. Manual labor can help relieve the pent-up stress, but recreational exercise is more therapeutic to the TMS mindbody. For 30 minutes or so, a day, YOU, get to take control of your life and move at a pace you choose.
As for, what the pace should be, a tip I got from a book titled BODY MIND AND SPORT, by John Douillard, a comfortable pace for the indiviual performing aerobic exercise is, when you can exercise, without having to breathe through the mouth, and only through the nose.
When you breathe through the nose, and not the mouth, there is a pathway to the brain that regulates your pace like an inner metronome. This creates a comfortable aerobic pace, keeping one from getting breathless. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 01:36:20
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quoting Kether:
"wow.... I just said I don't like exercise kids. most people I know don't!"
"Is my body so used to pain (substance P?) that it just can't kick those old signals out?"
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1) Start hanging out with people who like exercise and it may rub off on you too.
2) I think you have figured it out. You have been conditioned to being in your pain state, for so long, that you have forgotten what it feels like, to NOT feel in pain.
It will take sometime, but it can be done. I have done it. It's the old first step of a journey, starts with the first step, cliche thing, but that's what it takes.
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 09:07:25
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quote:
Originally posted by carbar
[quote]
I like that you say that you care for yourself. I'm curious a little what that means for you? Is that journaling?
I used to journal quite a bit, but now it's in spurts.
To care for myself, in my case anyway, it simply means to listen to myself, body, mind and spirit. So much of my life was spend worrying about whether so-and-so would approve of what I looked like, said, did, worked, etc., and I spent way too much time caring what others thought of me and not caring what I thought of me.
I care for my body now by running, biking, lifting weights, yoga, getting a massage, taking a nap when I'm tired, buying a good perfume (even though it costs an extra few bucks), and telling myself how pretty I am every day.  (I'm not vain, but through the years I've been called ugly things.) I care for my mind by being in the moment, taking the time to "see" the sunrise, "see" the beauty in everyday things, pushing out the negatives and looking for the positives, meditating. I care for my spirit by doing things that inspire me, by being with people I enjoy, and loving the qualities I've discovered in myself through taking care of my body and mind. |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 09:10:48
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kether - have you read "Freedom from Fibromyalgia: The 5-Week Program Proven to Conquer Pain" by Dr. Nancy Selfridge.
Excellent, excellent book. I've never had fibro, but felt I had alot of the symptoms at one point. I bought the book and it is really great. Maybe something will click with you. Her program is based on Sarno. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 09:33:00
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HI MIchele,
I have not read it, though I plan to...I don't have fibro, but I'm recovering from a chronic illness I believe is on the same family...
I'm curious as to the author's take on the role of exercise in recovery, if any...
JUst to be clear, I don't believe any of us think it's a good idea to try to be in any way superhuman in the exercise arena...My take is that it's important however to push right up to the limits..These limits are obviously going to be different for all of us..
I believe that some people with chronic fatigue actually worsen their condition by exercising too much, and too much is often heartbreakingly little..
I also want to apologize to kether if I pushed a little too hard....It wasn't my intention...I can understand how she'd feel ganged up on and I'm sorry for my role in that
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Edited by - art on 09/06/2006 09:36:04 |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:03:50
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Art, I think that we all know you enough to know that your message was along the lines as " This is what worked for me, I wish you would give it a try as I hate to see you suffer and I want to help "
This pretty well describes all of the board member's intentions, whether we agree or not is not the point, your desire to help is always commendable . Kether, I know how you feel, however I know these guys and gals enough to know that they mean well, unless one has fibro , one can only guess about the exhaustion and the pain, the experts have mixed opinions about the benefits of exersise, it is all a guessing game.
Okay, I just went downstairs and dug out my Nancy Selfridge book, on page 232, she insists that one sees a physician before beginning any exersise program, if pronounced fit to walk ,then start. If one has gone months without exersise then one should start ten to fifteen minutes of walking . The increased oxygen and blood flow help to strengten your muscles and at the same time provides nutrients for your brain and other organs, she says.After a week work your way up to at least twenty minutes of continuous movement, etc. She adds that over a month work up to thirty mins. at a stretch unless you need to accommodate another condition besides fibro. When in doubt ask a physician for guidance but be scrupulously honest about your symptoms
If at any point during exersise you feel faint numb, or dizzy, stop and report your symptoms to your doctor and ask for guidance, etc , etc.
Now I agree with Art that Cfs IS A DIFFERENT STORY AND SOME PEOPLE HAVE A COMBINATION OF FIBRO AND CFS, every case is different, and different people with fibro have different degrees of pain, some can function and work, others are in wheeel chairs and on major drugs, I am no expert and still trying to stay on top of mine and not let it get me down , of course one must keep in mind the emotional aspect of it also, how stress brings on the pain, how chronic pain is depressing, I AM NOT TOTALLY CONVINCED YET THAT FIBRO IS STRICTLY TMS, BUT i AM CONVINCED THAT IT HAS TMS COMPONENTS, if ever I get to the point where I believe in the tms, fibro theory completely I will be the first to admit it . Kether, I know that you have knee problems also, I cannot recall whether you had tests done for it or not, ruling out the physical with the proper tests is important.
Regards to all,
Micheline
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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:53:35
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
As for, what the pace should be, a tip I got from a book titled BODY MIND AND SPORT, by John Douillard, a comfortable pace for the indiviual performing aerobic exercise is, when you can exercise, without having to breathe through the mouth, and only through the nose.
TT, are you saying when YOU run, you breathe thru your nose only, or just til you are ready to pull out the stops? Very intriguing ideas, Tom.
I stopped running by the doc's directive, last October and I have to say my Fibro/TMS took over and got the worst hold on me til the past couple weeks. I wonder if my lack of excercise actually made the TMS worse? I've been considering going out and run/walking a couple miles, but haven't got the nerve yet. I guess I still have the "fear" the good doctor talks about. For me, I never had severe muscle pain or aches b/c of running, I'd get tachycardia, massive fatigue, and IT band which I was thrilled to see is also TMS. The FMS got me after I stopped my running.
Carbar, I love what you wrote about the "perfectionist" being fed by running. It really made me laugh and relate. When I began running a couple years ago after being sedentary for 17 years of my life, I did it like my life depended on it. I was absolutely obsessed. I had to do it, no excuses. And now, looking back on it, I was in much less TMS pain and had less emotional frustration, and slept much better at night without waking up a bazillion times like now. Hmm, I wonder what would've happened had my rheumatologist told me to add a mile to my run instead of completely stopping.
>|< Penny
Non illigitamus carborundum. |
Edited by - Penny on 09/06/2006 11:59:55 |
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What the hell is it going to take?
