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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
 Posted - 09/09/2004 : 20:43:19
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I haven't read anything posted by him recently and was just wondering where he was. Hope you are OK gary.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 11:43:15
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If you are still checking in here, Gary - I miss your contributions. Two of the things that have helped me most in my recovery from TMS have come from your posts:- ie - to let go of my abdominal muscles and embarking on Pete Egoscue's programme.
So thanks for that and very best wishes.
Anne |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 12:44:55
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Anne,
I am interested in your last post. How has letting go of your abdominals and doing the physical exercises of Egoscue's program helped you? If you have TMS, surely one is supposed to steer clear of physical therapy - focusing on the physical and focus on the mental instead. Has your pain gone? Do you wonder if your physical exercises might act as a placebo?
I would love to know how you combine the two without it conflicting the whole TMS theory.
thanks so much |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2004 : 05:52:05
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Hi Suz
It occurred to me after I had posted above that what I said would appear to anyone, other than Gary, who read it that I was interested only in the physical aspects of TMS, so I am not surprised at your question. I should have put it another way - Gary's ideas helped me get over the physical problems that were a result of my suffering from TMS - namely underused muscles because of years of restricted activity.
The fact is - I had made a very good partial recovery from severe lower back pain by working psychologically, to the point of being able to lead an almost normal day to day life. I had given up work and was sinking further and further into depression and anxiety because of the relentless pain.
I had long suspected that my pain was, at least in part, psychological in origin, and had begun to research. Finding out about Dr Sarno and TMS was as a result of that.
My life began to turn around as soon as I read MBP. I drove my car for the first time in months on the first day of reading! I continued to make progress, but it became obvious that years of restricted activity (not carrying anything other than very light loads, no gardening, no heavy housework, no bending from the waist, sitting only on a straight backed chair etc etc - many of these restrictions came about because of 'advice' from doctors and other health professionals), had left me in pretty poor physical shape - everywhere - not just in the lower back area.
To improve further, I needed to embark on a physical programme that was tailored for someone like me. Gary had mentioned Pete Egoscue on this board and I sent off for his book. The exercises were really good for what I was after - better than anything else I had tried.
The great thing was - the fear of pain had gone, so I could continue with my 'physical' recovery. I could not have done that if I had not worked on (and am still working on) the psychological causes first.
Best wishes
Anne
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Edited by - n/a on 09/11/2004 05:59:19 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2004 : 10:04:30
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Good post AnneG, the title of the Good Doctor's book has the word "BODY" in it as well as mind and I think the two are inseparble, as Sarno has it in the his title: "Mindbody". The goal of the book is to give us truthful knowledge, so that we can retrain our minds. We must rid it of the trash, mis-knowledge heaped upon us by the snake-oil, med/industrial/therapy/quacks/quacks/quacks.
The goal is to have a sound mind that allows us to once again use our bodies as they were intended. Every time we do a physical task, that we once feared, we reafirm the correctness of TMS theory and gain confidence and strength.
Psychogenic pain is real pain. It is not just in our head. I can see the atrophy in my right leg muscles after years of limping, do to TMS induced pain. Gary gave good advice on how to retrain muscles, long unused, working them free, "layer by layer, like the skin of an onion".
I made a physical break-through yesterday during a tennis match. I realized that my hip pain went away when I asummed the correct ready position to return serve. Now I just have to do it a "million" more times and I should be cured--it doesn't take that long to do something a million times--I figure about a year.
As we train our minds, to recognize TMS induced pain, we will be able to recognize it and stop it before it can take a foothold once again. We can learn to play it, rather than allowing it to play us.
I apprecitate Gary for starting this board and hope he has moved on to other pursuits. The goal of this board should be not to be glued to it forever like waiting in a doctor's, office eight hours a day. The goal of the student should be to kill the teacher, figuratively not literally of course.
I have found myself posting less lately due to several things. It's vacation time and that seems to generally help our TMS, taking us away from our stess/rage/anger producing environments. The main reason is getting better at doing the TMS emotional thinking work. I can now spend my time more productively doing the things I want to do rather than being in pain and fear. Thank you DR. Sarno, Dave and Gary.
tt
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 09:12:31
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Anne,
Thank you for your explanation. I am getting ready to start exercising again - I think I still have a small amount of fear left but I have been working on the emotional side so much that I feel confident to start exercising. I know that I am extremely out of shape - particularly in the hip area as my TMS pain was in the sciatic - I am sure my muscles are weak. I think I will take it real easy at the beginning. I might look into doing the Egoscue method as I have heard it is really good although I think it might be quite expensive. I am longing to get into shape, as right before I discovered Sarno, I was put on really powerful steroids which have put about 10 pounds on me - add this to a very out of shape body and I have work ahead of me!
I am nervous to get a trainer as I always imagine they might overdo it!
I think it would be very helpful to discuss on this board - how to get back into exercise again after such a long time withough - really about 6 years plus for me. |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 10:01:06
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Pete Egoscue's book, 'Pain Free - A Revolutionary Method For Stopping Chronic Pain', cost me £8.03 from amazon.co.uk. I have checked and it's $9.96 from amazon.com. Even with added postage it is still considerably less expensive than the publisher's price of $15.00. Amazon's reviews are worth a look.
I think that the book is probably all you would need, Suz, as his descriptions are very clear and easy to follow. There are good photographs and diagrams that let you see how to do them properly.
I found the exercises really good for someone beginning a tone-up programme. Most of them are easy to do and didn't cause me pain. It is not necessary to do them all; you can pick the ones that suit you.
I certainly wouldn't recommend a programme like this to someone just beginning to work on TMS, but for people who have come a long way, but need to work on a body that has been underused because of chronic pain and fear (like you and me - and probably quite a few of us who post here), it's a good way to get started.
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Texasrunner
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 10:59:43
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| Actually, I e-mailed a bit with Gary (he lives in Austin as I do) and he's doing fine. He simply wanted to take a break from the forum. The forum can be a good or bad addition to dealing with TMS. The danger is obsessing about it. The good part is understanding and incorporating lessons from others' success. My biggest recent success is the realization that the very act of looking inside to see what you are feeling is the essence of TMS's effectiveness. This goes back to when Dr. Sarno very first realized that "awareness" is what trips up the pain mechanism. He was trying to dig inside himself to see what events/tendencies in his life could be triggering migraines, and by doing so, he actually warded off a migraine attack. He never did seize on any actual event that was stressing him, but by SEARCHING for one, he thwarted the brain's strategy. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 11:43:27
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| Suz, You don't need a trainer to get into shape. Walking is excellent exercise. Swimming is also great. Yoga too. A trainer would be nice but is an expensive luxury. Whatever exercise you choose, just do it with awareness. You have the ultimate responsibility for your body. No one else can feel what is going on inside you. If it doesn't feel right, back-off, and proceed with caution. I've incurred several injuries in yoga class by going beyond my limits. In an exercise class, there can be 12 or more other participants and the instructor can not be paying attentiion to everyone. If it doesn't feel right to you, stop, it's stupid to get injured and gives TMS a foothold. Good luck. |
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ank
5 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 11:45:32
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| I would also like to thank Gary for his suggestion about Pete Egoscue's book. I got Pete Egoscue's book from library and mostly have same experience as AnneG with excercies in this book. It has helped me a lot in terms of flexibility and strength. The excercises feels good and did not cause any pain during or after. This certainely was after making significant recovery using the TMS work. |
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diverlarry
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 14:33:14
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From Pete Egoscue's Website:
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Postural Therapy program which involves a series of stretches and gentle exercises.
Look at yourself in a mirror. Does one foot turn out more than the other? Is one hip or shoulder higher than the other? Does one hand appear closer to the mirror? Now, stand on one leg. Can you stand more easily on one leg than the other.
If you answered "YES" to any of these questions, then you are showing the signs of misalignment of a joint or set of joints.
Pain is the body's way of telling us "something is wrong" and is asking for action to make it better.
This is the first step in correcting the problem. Do exercises.....
Did you feel any changes? Do you feel better?
You've just taken the first step towards correcting the problem.
*****************************************************************
To me this is a physical therapy program which focuses on the physcial. He has specific stretches and exercises that focus on each body part. Its what Dr Sarno says not to do.
I started getting better by stopping all stretching and PT.
I exercise,lift weights ,starting to run, starting to swim.
It has not been easy because of the anxiety and fear. But im making great progress. For me his program would not work because it focuses on correcting "problems" in my structure. I guess his program has worked for many people. But to me its a "program". For me i just needed to do things. Start slow and go out and do it. Swim if you like to swim, run if you like to run...etc...
This is just my opinion and experience.
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FarmerEd
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 20:43:06
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I agree with diverlarry on this. Exercise for the sake of keeping fit and in good health is common sense. Doing specific exercises to fix a percieved postural problem and to realign joints sounds in line with chiropractic thought to me. I believe this approach is in conflict with TMS theory and would start a person back on the path of thinking physical.
If you approach the exercises as only to get in shape it is probably okay, but if you find yourself checking your posture and foot alingment in a mirror constantly I'd watch out. |
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JoeW
United Kingdom
61 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 22:59:00
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Well Gary may have gone, but the debate he started lives on 
AnneG's point about "getting over the physical problems that were a result of my suffering from TMS - namely underused muscles because of years of restricted activity" is a good one.
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 09:03:19
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quote:
Originally posted by diverlarry
From Pete Egoscue's Website:
******************************************************************
Postural Therapy program which involves a series of stretches and gentle exercises.
Look at yourself in a mirror. Does one foot turn out more than the other? Is one hip or shoulder higher than the other? Does one hand appear closer to the mirror? Now, stand on one leg. Can you stand more easily on one leg than the other.
If you answered "YES" to any of these questions, then you are showing the signs of misalignment of a joint or set of joints.
Pain is the body's way of telling us "something is wrong" and is asking for action to make it better.
This is the first step in correcting the problem. Do exercises.....
Did you feel any changes? Do you feel better?
You've just taken the first step towards correcting the problem.
*****************************************************************
To me this is a physical therapy program which focuses on the physcial. He has specific stretches and exercises that focus on each body part. Its what Dr Sarno says not to do.
I started getting better by stopping all stretching and PT.
I exercise,lift weights ,starting to run, starting to swim.
It has not been easy because of the anxiety and fear. But im making great progress. For me his program would not work because it focuses on correcting "problems" in my structure. I guess his program has worked for many people. But to me its a "program". For me i just needed to do things. Start slow and go out and do it. Swim if you like to swim, run if you like to run...etc...
This is just my opinion and experience.
I agree...Why not just go to a chiropractor and get your back cracked once a week from here to eternity to "correct" these supposed "misalignments"? Does Egoscue present any empirical evidence to support the existence of "misalignments" or to prove that his system works? Let go of the physical. Structural explanations are so seductive and they are just what your tricky brain wants you to dwell on so the TMS symptoms can continue unchecked and keep doing their job to distract you. Sarno's system works so why try a philosophy that is completely out of sync with it? As soon as I gave up on and actively disputed unproven structural explanations, stopped PT/stretching "corrective" activities, started on a consistent daily program of aerobic exercise and full body strengthening, and focused on identifying and feeling my emotions, I started making vast improvements in attacking my sciatica, headaches, panic spells, tinnitus, and acid reflux. |
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ank
5 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 09:21:38
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Gary had tried to explain the difference in past between the chiropractic approach and Egoscue's methods. I believe, the major difference is that Chiropractic approach suggests that pain is caused due to structural (bone misalignment) problems while Egoscue's methods suggests that pain is caused due to muscle imbalance which can be cured by exercises.
In past, whenever I tried to do Yoga exercises, I developed pain in some other parts of the body that caused me to abandon the exercises. I also tried Gym but I was lifting very small weights since I was afraid that I would develop pain somewhere. Then I started running and swimming which helped me a lot. But I was still not able to lift heavy weights and participate in sports freely. In the begining of this summer, when I played volleyball, I had sever pain in upper back and very tight (nearly frozen) shoulder muscles. That's when I came across Gary's post and started doing these exercises so that I could gain some confidence in my body. I am still not at the point where I can say that I am cured but I feel better.
I totally agree that the main help with Egoscue's book is with "getting over physical problems due to unused muscles bcoz of restricted activities". I would also like to add is that the book and exercises in certain ways explain about how different muscles can get out of balance and some other muscles are used as bait muscles. I was also skeptical in starting these exercises due to it's focus on physical. But my experience with TMS has helped me to not focus on physical. Also, the book (like Dr. Sarno's books) gives hope that everything including herniated disks etc. can be cured because bones go where the muscles ask them to go and the process can be reversed.
I think everybody has different body and get help from different things during periods of pain. I am not trying to say that Egoscue's method would help everybody but I just wanted to share my experience. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 09:48:50
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| Are you sure that you are not feeling better due to the effects of the your new running and swimming activities (which both provide temporary relief due to increased blood flow and brain chemical release plus being able to dispute various other structural explanations that lead to fear by proving to yourself that you can perform difficult exercise) versus the selected, corrective physical activities recommended by Egoscue? How can you isolate the variables? If these structural abnormalities (muscles are part of the body's struture) exist (and how can this ever be proved?), why won't general aerobic exercise correct the "muscle imbalance" problem -- since you are using plenty of muscles with these two activities (runniing and swimming) combined? |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 10:06:43
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It's a fair point that Pete Egoscue's programme is a physical one that on the face of it has no place in recovery from TMS. I accept that when a person is beginning to work on negative and supressed emotions, this, or any other similar programme is probably inappropriate and even counter-productive. I know that it would have been useless for me at that stage.
The experiences of people who post here are many and varied. Some have never given in to TMS; continuing their normal activities throughout, even when those activities bring them pain, others like me, were sliding into inactivity, with all that that brings - including a badly out of condition body.
It is no coincidence that one part of my body has been totally unaffected by pain throughout these last few years. I have always been a walker, since early childhood. Even when I was overwhelmed by the pain in my back, I continued to walk - for miles each day. I believed that walking relieved the pain somewhat. My point is - my legs have never been underused, so they are strong and muscular. I believe they were never a target for TMS (when just about every other bit of me has had its turn) because my belief in their strength goes deep. The rest of me hurt when I began to resume normal activities.
I didn't get scared by this - my emotional work had done its job. I could look at it dispassionately and see these aches and pains for what they were - a badly underused body. I felt that Pete Egoscue's programme was worth a try. Austin Gary and other people here - all TMS sufferers like me - had found it helpful and that was good enough for me.
I'm at a stage in my recovery where I can be physical without thinking physical. I can't stress enough how good it makes me feel to have a handle at last on the awful blight on my life that was TMS. Dr Sarno's 'Mindbody Prescription' was the main factor in my recovery - by a mile!
I don't feel vulnerable any more. I like Pete Egoscue's exercises. They seem to be helping tone up my body. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 11:52:24
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| If you can dismiss the apparent corrective/structural theories behind the author's exercises(admittedly, I haven't read the book -- and, based on a sample of the text provided in someone else's earlier email, I would not even consider reading such a counterproductive book) as invalid or at least unproven, and you get toning benefits, then maybe the exercises are good for you. But I bet you won't be able to get the structural deficit -related images out of your head entirely as you do the exercises....Why not tone up with some less risky system of exercise that doesn't hang the reason for its existence upon the need to correct physical deficits that supposedly lead to pain. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 12:00:36
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Very interesting thread here.
I appreciate all the different angles on this. I think it probably wouldn't be a good idea for someone really new to the TMS program to focus on anything regarding the physical.
I think I may still be too new. I am really getting used to thinking psychologically and it takes time for my unconscious to absorb this. So far, I have had no pain for 5 days. I had a relapse of pain for one month. I did a lot of psychological work and hope I have made a break through.
At the same time, I know that my muscles have atrophied and I am weak in my back and hips as a result of no exercise for 5 years. I still have some lingering fear - but am feeling much more confident about exercising. I would really like to run. This is something that I thought I was unable to do. In fact, I had pain in my sciatica when I walked. I thrive off physical exercise and can't wait to feel fit and energetic.
Have any of you overcome fear of running? I am tempted just to start slowly and ignore the pain if there is any - after all it is just conditioning of my mind.
Any tips from anyone? My other wish is to do yoga - but have bad memory of intense pain when I did it - again conditioning
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 12:15:02
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| I ran 6 miles a day for over 10 years -- all the while suffering from sciatica. It made me feel better temporarily and really improved my mental well-being. Only 3 or 4 days out of all that time did my sciatica get worse during running -- and on those few occasions I simply stopped running and walked back home....Go ahead and run, but work into it slowly with walking then walking/running. Ignore the pain unless it turns severe..I have to admit that I am now only walking each morning, but it is a very brisk 45 minute walk....I stopped running because I now feel that I need to walk my young Pomeranian dog (he walks at a very fast clip, and I don't allow him to stop) and when I tried to run with him last, we got tangled up and I had a horrible fall to the asphalt, so I won't do that again...Also, walking allows one time to think about one's dreams and emotions and think up solutions to everyday problems -- when one is running, one is "mindless" and can't stay with one thought (which does have its own meditation-type advantages).....I have tried running 2 miles a couple of times in the late afternoon lately and there was no problem....By the way, doing exercises that are based on theories of structural deficit are not only dangerous to newbies. I think they could cause backsliding in even the most confident and disciplined Sarno veteran. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 14:47:30
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Fox,
When you say sciatica, do you mean from TMS? I am amazed it didn't really hurt when you ran. I guess mine was all from conditioning. I agree with you about walking -although I have always had pain walking. I just find it quite boring sometimes and I love the de-stressing feeling of moving faster. If I had a dog, I think it would be lovely to take a walk - nice to have a companion!
Did you have pain when you began exercise and just worked through the pain?
It is lovely fall weather here in Connecticut and so nice to be outside rather than in a gym.
How long was it, Fox, after reading and doing the Sarno work, that you started to exercise? |
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where's austingary
