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baby_boomer
USA
5 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2006 : 23:22:58
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Hi,
I have had a bit of an ordeal lately and I am extremely worried.
I have had lower back pain now for about 5yrs. Just over two years ago I had an MRI showing herniated discs and arthritis. I was given some therapy ( which did absolutely nothing ) and was told to have steroid shots. Which I chose not to get. I was put on NSAIDS and they also did nothing. Then I found out about Dr. Sarno and read his books. I also found a TMS Dr. here in Orlando and he diagnosed me with 100% TMS.
My back pain never went away in fact it's continued to get worse. So I emailed Dr. Brady and he suggested I get another MRI. This in its self confused me as I really didn't want to know if my back had gotten any worse as I knew that would lay heavily on my mind.
Anyhow I went to see a back Dr. and he was down right awful. He said to me "What do you want to have another MRI for, of course your back is getting worse. You don't need another MRI to tell you that. You have got discs pressing on nerves" I told him " No I haven't the report doesn't state that" So he said " I don't need to read the report to tell you that, I looked at the MRI. I couldn't believe how negative he was. I cried as soon as I got out of his office and made a complaint to my insurance. co.
Needless to say I made another appointment with different back Dr. who ordered an MRI and I picked up the report yesterday. I have an appointment to see the Dr. on Thurs. but meanwhile I looked at the report and it now says:-
1.Disk degeneration, spondylosis and facet arthrosis at L5-S1
2.Bulging, facet arthrosis and disk degenertion at L4-5 with mild lateral recess stenosis.
3.Bulging at L3-4 and L2-3
Is there anyone on this site that knows what this means.
I am so unhappy right now. I know the Dr. will tell me on Thurs. but I really have got a disliking for back Dr's as they tell you everything without feeling. (At least the ones that I have come across.) I'm scared this means it will continue to get worse and I will end up in a wheel chair. I am in pain constantly. I have not given in to this and I have continued to do things that "I'm not suppoed to do" Now I am so worried that I have done more damage.
Have any of you had a dianosis similar to mine? Could it still be TMS?
Please, Please can someone help?
Thankyou  |
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ndb
209 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2006 : 08:39:44
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hi bb,
I am sorry you are in pain, and at the same time so scared you might get worse. Sorry, I don't know what your MRI report means. But don't read it and scare yourself before thursday.
Try to calm yourself, and don't be scared. Fear will make your symptoms only worse, and try to tell yourself, what purpose will fear serve anyway? Its so good you are not restricting your activities...you have overcome that fear. Now try to overcome the fear that activity will make things worse. Even if it DOES feel worse for a time, tell yourself 'this will pass'.
Don't feel that your well-being is at the mercy of a doctor. You will certainly not end up in a wheelchair! It is amazing how strong the mind is and with practice, you'll be able to eliminate hopefully some of your pain. 
keep in touch,
ndb
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Nor
152 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2006 : 09:04:38
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Baby Boomer,
I can understand your fears. You didn't say your age but I assume by your user name you are probably over 40 (or you've just had a lot of babies!). Remember a few things. Most of us develop some form of degeneration at our joints over the age of 40. Sarno calls it the body's "gray hair". Terms ending in "osis" indicate build-up or blockage - basically extra tissue. These are signs of degeneration. Sarno also feels that we can have degeneration - even significant forms of it as shown on MRI - and still *not* be in excrutiating pain. He reminds us that positive MRI's usually make our pain worse.
Also, I assume the doctors you are visiting are ortho surgeons? If so, remember their bias and training is in one area. They see only pathology and assume only a physical course of treatment. Most of us on this forum would provide a field day for doctors/surgeons, chiropractors, physical therapists, etc. I am an OT myself and I see this in my professional and personal experiences.
My MRIs show scoliosis, arthritis, disc protrusion and degeneration...the works. I have less pain now than I did 15 years ago and I'm 42. You'd probably never know I had back problems if you met me. I work, play w/my kids, exercise, garden, etc. I am convinced that despite the structural abnormalities, the pain was TMS. I still have it a little but I don't consider it to be TMS at this level b/c it does not distract me from anything.
I urge you to take the MRI and go back to your TMS doctor. You need clarity before you can work on the TMS stuff. Just keep reading and rereading Sarno. Don't worry. You will get control over the pain. It takes a long time for some people.
- Nora |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2006 : 10:14:50
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Hi Baby Boomer,
Sounds like classic TMS. After 5 years, you probably need a SARNO REFRESHER. A lot of life-crap has probably built up in your unconscious and needs a good flushing.
Dig out the books and REREAD. Go back to Dr. Brady. He probably requested the new films for boilerplate, to play it safe and rule out the usual extremely rare things such as tumors. I've yet to read on this board or meet anyone whose cause of TMS pain was due to a tumor or any other rare disease. In this litigious era, doctors must play it safe to help defend from being sued.
In all likely-hood, he will compare your old films, next to the new ones, and show you that there have been NO substantive changes, except for NORMAL "gray hair of the spine". We baby-boomers don't handle the concept of "AGEING" very well--in fact, in California, it's aginst the law.
Don't be surprised about the surgeon's prejudice for surgery. After all, that's what he was trained to do--"Don't ask a barber if you need a haircut".
Good luck and curl up with a Sarno book and a cup of tea.
tt
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lilykins
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2006 : 15:46:23
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| Hi, babyboomer. I have similar MRI results to yours and have been nearly pain-free since reading Sarno and doing the TMS work. I was on tons of meds, I had the steroid injections you wisely declined, I had oral steroids, acupuncture, chiropractic, massage, physical therapy, herbs, the gamut. When the chiropractor said my x-rays showed more degeneration than they did 3 years earlier (of course they did!), I cried and felt worse pain for the next month. Once I realized I'm OK and my back is structurally normal, my pain went away. It definitely didn't happen overnight, but it happened. You're on the right track; I'm sorry you're going through this, but just keep reading Sarno. |
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Jackie
27 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2006 : 16:57:41
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Hi baby boomer
I'm not a Doctor but...this isn't all that scary
Sarno tells us that everyone has some disk degeneration/bulging...that if you mri 100 people you will find it in most people even though it only causes pain for some....remember you have an MRI to look for the cause of pain...so when you see a bulge it must be the cause.
Spondylosis is just osteoartritis of the spine... I feel arthritis is a catch all for any diagnosed pain. I was told that the cause of my leg pain was arthritis in the hips...the Dr. said, " you seem to have more pain than the xray would indicate...but everyone is different" The only Dr. that listened to me when I said that the pain seemed to be more in my muscles gave me Sarno's book.
And stenosis
just means that the channel the nerve is passing through is getting narrower. Again...these are normal aging changes according to Sarno
Good luck with the doctor....let us know how you do.
Jackie |
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baby_boomer
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2006 : 23:34:12
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Thank you all so much. It is so nice that you each took time to read and answer my mail. I truly appreciate it and it has really eased my mind. I am definately going to start reading Dr. Sarno's books again. This time I am going to buy them instead of getting them from the library.
I should admit that I probably didn't work as hard as I should of when it came to journaling as I would get really upset when I wrote about all the destressing things that had happened in my life, I know that's what I was supposed to do but the pain of what had happened in the past caused me to become really depressed and I couldn't write anymore.
I know this might sound weird but I have never really liked myself and I feel that I must have done something to deserve this pain. I was always told when I was little that if I was bad then something bad would happen to me. I know it is stupid but that's the way my mind thinks.
I know I must get my act together and really work on this. Your replies have helped me so much as it's made me realise that I must not worry about my stupid back...( I think about the bloody thing 24/7 ) and I must get the horrible thoughts out my mind and realise that it's normal aging and the pain is from TMS.
I will let you know what the Dr. says as I expect he will scare my half to death. I am also going to make an appointment with my TMS Dr. If I hadn't come on this board I would still be worrying myself sick.
This board is a fantastic help, and I am really grateful to you all.
Thanks so much |
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ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2006 : 23:53:56
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Here's a relevant quotation from Dr. Marc Sopher, whose book, To Be or Not To Be... Pain-Free, is quite good:quote:
With the availability of CT and now MRI scanners, it is possible to obtain remarkable images of the body. That is the good news. The bad news is that many of these images will be reported as abnormal - one study reported in the New England Journal of Medicine that greater than 60% of spine MRIs showed abnormalities, the same percentage in those without pain as with pain. Virtually every person over 20 who has a spine MRI will be told they have degenerative disc disease, disc herniation, degenerative changes, or some other abnormality. As these findings are present equally, no matter whether symptoms exist, it is Dr. Sarno's and my contention that these are incidental, rarely the cause for pain. Unfortunately, physicians are taught to find a physical cause for physical symptoms and thus tell their patients about their "back problem."
Being told that you have a "problem" or "condition" can aid the "nocebo response." This is the opposite of the placebo response. With a placebo, belief in a worthless remedy can provide relief, almost always temporary, due to the desire to be well and faith in the value of the remedy. With a nocebo, symptoms will persist or intensify as a result of being informed, incorrectly, that a significant defect or problem is to blame. This is a critical part of conditioning - coming to believe that certain actions, circumstances, or aspects of the environment are the cause of symptoms, when in fact the cause lies in the mind.
And he goes on to say: quote:
"Eliminating the pain is startlingly simple. We can banish the pain and thwart the brain's strategy by simply understanding and accepting that the pain has a psychological causation, that it is not physically based."
"Unfortunately, if your physician does not consider TMS in the process of generating a differential diagnosis of your symptoms, it is possible that he or she will give an incorrect diagnosis. This occurs all too frequently as a physical cause is mistakenly offered. This results in a treatment plan that it often unsuccessful. As an example, many people with back pain are told that their symptoms are due to a herniated disc or disc degeneration, when in fact these findings are often incidental and normal. This helps to explain why physical therapy, medications, and surgery are often unsuccessful.
Hope this helps.
Ralph
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salamander
85 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2006 : 23:57:30
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Hi Babyboomer,
I had the same MRI descriptions at the age of 24. Spondo, arthrosis, stenosis....the works. My back is fine now at 40.
Don't freak out about the medical terminology. These tests will make you absolutely obsessed with your body if you let them. Read Sarno's books again and again. As Sarno says..."you must repudiate the structural". (or something to that effect).
I know it's hard to believe in TMS when you are in so much pain. My back pain was excrutiating. I'd go through periods where I could not even walk erect. The Doctors talked about fusing my spine at several locations...and had it not been for Sarno, I would have bought into it.
If you see yourself in Sarno's personality description, then you really need to devote yourself to the TMS diagnosis and proceed accordingly.
Regards,
Doug |
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baby_boomer
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 22:04:11
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Thank you Ralph and Doug so much.
Since I read all the other replies and what both of you have written my pain has gone down about 50%. I'ts amazing. I knew I had been working my self into a tizzy and it has been so helpful all the info that I have been given, especially knowing that people have been diagnosed the same as me and are pain free has been very reasuring..
I decided to cancel my appointment today with the ortho Dr.as I knew if I went my pain would come back worse because of all the neg. stuff the Dr. would be telling me.
Now I must start back with reading. There seem so many good books out there now and being as I am a teacher I will be able to read most of the summer.
I am going to send copies of both my MRI's to my TMS Dr. and ask his opinion rather than go back to the ortho Dr.
Thank you all again so much for caring enough to write.
Lin
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salamander
85 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 22:51:05
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Lin,
When you become pain free, you will look back on this in astonishment. I suffered for almost a year before I found Sarno's books. If someone had told me that my back pain was caused from "stress", I would have absolutely dismissed them as totally nuts.
I should add that there was something besides Sarno that helped me recover (or at least fully believe in Sarno). Around the time that I read Sarno's books, I went back to the orthopedic Dr. for a followup visit. During the appointment, this Dr. happened to pull out a previous MRI that I had taken for "prostate/groin pain" several years earlier. What was fascinating is that he put both MRI's (which captured my lower back) side by side; both the images were virtually identical. Although seperated by several years, they both showed degenerative disks, Spondo, stenosis, etc... The "lightbulb" went on, when I realized that I had no pain in my back when the first MRI was taken. I was pretty much pain free within a month after this visit.
Not only did I have Sarno's wisdom and rational to get me over the pain, but I had my own insurmountable evidence to prove what Sarno had been saying all along, namely: structural "defects" are rarely a cause for pain.
Congratulations on your pain reduction. May you be totally pain free in the near future.
Regards,
Doug |
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baby_boomer
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 22:42:10
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Thought I would update you all and let you read the letter my TMS Dr. wrote tonight after seeing both my MRI reports:
Lin
According to the radiologist interpretations that you typed, your 2006 MRI is
actually LESS "abnormal" than the 2003 MRI. In the 2003 MRI they used the
word "extrusion". In the 2006 MRI - the typed report doesn't indicate that you
have a "disk pressing on a nerve" as your doctor indicated to you.
With this in mind - it is most likely that your symptoms have TMS roots.
I hope this helps!
By the way, this Wednesday, I've got a new book coming out (Amazon or Borders
or Barnes & Noble) - called Pain Free for Life. From new findings in the
medical literature I've re-named the process AOS rather than TMS. I hope you
like it!
Dr. Brady
I thought others may be interested in Dr. Bradys new book.
I feel so much better about things now. Thank you all for being here for me.
Lin
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