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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
 Posted - 05/23/2006 : 12:46:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity18
Tennis Tom,
I admire your determination in pushing through the pain, while not completely deciding whether or not you have TMS. I'm wondering if one more consultation from a TMS physician might give you that final small percentage that it would take for the TMS diagnoses to take hold. I know that Mark Sopher does phone consultations, and he was especially helpful to me. You might have caught Schecter on an off day, which happens to the best of them. I sent my records and reports to Sopher, and he zeroed in on what was going on. Just a thought-
Curiosity
Hi Curiosity,
Let me try this again. I'm a computer beginner and in fact learned how to use one after finding this board--necessity is the mother of invention. I think I know what I did wrong to lose the post. I "selected all" but failed to "copy" in the edit bar. If I lose it again I'll just slit my wrists--loseing posts sure helps to fuel one's TMS.
Thanks for your kind words. I have thought about seeking another dx from a third TMS doctor but am too chicken to do so. I have had Drs. Schechter and Bruce Eisendorf in Santa Cruz both DX me with "arthritis" and "arthritis and TMS" respectively. I figure three strikes and my right hip is OUT. I think I have Dr. Sopher's book in my growing pile of TMS, self-help and spirituality books that TMS devotees seem to collect. I recall he is a tennis player and a runner. Some day I may consult with him, but for now I'm afraid he will see my films and say it's NOT TMS. I'll wait and see if I can "fix" it first and if I do then maybe get another MRI. Until then my mantra is: "I've never had an injury I couldn't fix".
My right hip has been with me all my life and I think it deserves a chance. I can't do anymore "harm" to it than I already have. If they are going to lop it off, what difference does it make if I wear it down a bit more?
So, I go out there and play as much tennis as I can, usually the first one out there and the last to leave. I'm playing about 5-6 hours each Saturday and Sunday. Afterwards, I hobble off the court. I literaly have to hold onto the walls to move about my apartment. My 83 year old father, for whom I just purchased an electric wheelchair for, has better moblilty in his gait than I do.
I have recently purchased an Aqua-Jogger and the booties that go with it to run in the pool. I do about 30 minutes to an hour of pool work and then I'm good to go again.
After a six month, doctor ordered lay off from tennis, I started playing again at the club level...yuck! The lay-off did not accomplish anything accept put me into a deep depression, that playing for two weeks, fortunately brought me out of.
I hope to resume playing tournaments again. I love the travel and the REAL players are there. They all have their own issues with injuries, but don't dwell on their's or mine.
Not a day goes by at the club that someone (whose butt I've just politely kicked), on the tennis court, asks me "When I'm going to have my hip replaced?", I just grin and bear it.
Best Wishes,
tt |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 00:23:31
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Thanks Art. And of course you're right about having to conquer the dread of relapse to find any lasting peace. Little by little, I think I'm making progress in simply abstaining from researching symptoms and running to doctors.
I notice nearly every day there is something that worries me. The past week since being back from vacation, depression has been building up, day by day. This is nothing new, but I had had a month or so of relative peace. So I worry that the Celexa that I started in March that I thought was working, maybe isn't working. Then other worries appear, some I hadn't thought about for a long time, such as my PSA score (prostate). Last year it barely tipped into the zone where it could be flagged (4.1) after hovering in the 3's for the previous couple of years. That freaked me out at the time even though the PSA test is known to be extremely unreliable and a lot of doctors recommend against even doing it.
So, I'm a worrier. Depression may be a TMS equivalent for me because I notice during periods when I have scary physical symptoms I am much more anxious than depressed. It is as though the scary symptoms provides the needed TMS distraction, but when they are gone the depression fill in. It serves the same function because it keeps me in a state of fogginess and useless rumination, which is a distraction of sorts.
Meanwhile, life winds down. Another day, week, month or year wasted, worrying about silly things, or worrying about things I can do nothing about. Unfortunately, knowing all this makes not the slightest difference. I'm amazed that I can see clearly the train heading off the track and not be motivated enough to get off. Which is so characteristic of me. I am great at gathering information, becoming an expert at whatever the topic is, but when it comes to the action phase...well, I just want to do more research. At some point I really need to change this safe, cozy way of dealing with the world. I don't know what it will take. |
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Logan
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 19:47:17
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Here's something I've been noticing about myself: Several months ago, during the worst of my physical symptoms, I would have thought I was in Heaven to feel the way I do now, but do I? Absolutely not! It's incredible how quickly one adapts and soon finds other things to worry about. It lends credence to the theory of "happiness setpoint"; that whatever happens (good or bad) in one's life, one is soon back to one's original setpoint, determined by genes and early environment.
[/quote]
I just logged on here because I was feeling listless and bored, a little depressed and lonely, basically having a groundless pity party (oh sure, I know at some level I'm mad as hell but I can't seem to work up the energy for anger) and I saw your post.
WRLD, I don't know your whole story but I've been where you are now, pain free but scared to let down the old guard in case it comes back. I think the feeling is similar to waking up from a bad dream and having a lingering sense that the dream was real and this safe reality is the illusion.
And it is pretty ironic that having your wildest "dream come true" - and weren't there years when I dared hope for the most outlandish things but never even made a birthday candle wish for the pain to go away because I thought it never would - doesn't prevent one from feeling sorry for oneself or apathetic or lethargic or whatever. Ironic and funny and sad, what the heck is our deal WRLD? :)
But in any case, when I get what Holly Golightly called "the mean reds" in Breakfast at Tiffany's (worse than the mere blues), I still get a happy little thrill when I think of how I kicked TMS's ass and have been pain free for three years now. Which is not to say that I don't have to put on the gloves and get in the ring with it on ocassion.
A week or so ago my TMS neck pain started to creep back in and actually set up camp for a couple of days which hasn't happened for any significant length of time in over two years. I just hadn't done my anger or grief release excercises in months, hadn't been feeling any emotions for awhile and just kind of didn't notice it until the pain got my attention.
I had a brief cry and shazam, like magic, felt all better. It does get easier. I used to have these sobs that lasted for 15 minutes, uncontrollable grief stricken bawling over old childhood emotions and now, it's a little cry over recent stuff. Maintenance versus deconstruction, I guess.
I bet if I had a little cry right now over some work stuff that happened yesterday I wouldn't feel so blah. Maybe you could give it a try too.
Good luck WRLD, keep your stick on the ice and I'm pulling for you as Red Green would say. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 22:42:32
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Peter-The board might be right that the way to healing is to push through the pain and be determined that your unconscious will not be the boss.
Still from my own experience I can't help wondering if your body needs to feel and whether you have gotten to feelings. I also have an unconscious that is incredibly unyielding and my symptoms remained unchanged for years after I read and believed the TMS theory. What is making a difference for me is feeling in therapy and doing it alot over and over again.
So my question to you would be if you are getting to the feelings in your therapy sessions and letting the feelings take you so you really get out of your head. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2006 : 06:31:18
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Clearly Peter is uncomfortable with all this attention, so I suggest we respect that as a group....Perhaps the discussion could be altered to a more general treatment of stubborn symptoms...
quote:
But in any case, when I get what Holly Golightly called "the mean reds" in Breakfast at Tiffany's (worse than the mere blues),
I had to laugh at this one...I loved that movie...Thinking about the book since seeing the recent movie about the writing of "in Cold Blood." |
Edited by - art on 05/26/2006 06:36:01 |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2006 : 08:39:41
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| I don't go to therapy sessions. No one in my area believes in TMS and it is a waste of time trying to convince them otherwise. I would do better by exerting my energy on working out my own issues rather than arguing with a shrink. If you found someone that ca help you and have a thick wallet that it great. I actually suggested TMS to one therapist and he was almost screaming at me on the phone. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2006 : 10:23:04
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Sarno says that depression is a TMS alternative--I can attest to that. When I was deep into it, it allowed for secondary gains. It gave me the excuse I needed to not do things I didn't want to do..."I WAS DEPRESSED!". I got to sleep all day and do nothing but try to escape black thoughts. In six months my weight went from 194 to 174 to 204. I went from having no appetite and actually being worried about being too thin for the first time in my life to voracious uncontrolled eating. It was very scary.
I returned to exercising and it brought me out of it in about a month. I now feel back to my "normal" self and "productive" again.
My ladyfriend is in somewhat denial about what we went through. I would like to not lose connection to those feelings and study them in the light of day. I have had depressions before and will no doubt experience them again. I think about how I feel now, and how I felt while depressed experiencing the same activities.
I joke with my ladyfriend that I miss some of the great benefits of depression like getting to watch the business news all morning and Mad Cramer in the afternoon. I was much better informed back then. Now that I am "productive" again, I miss the naps. My doctor gave me Lexapro and when he upped to two a day I became a nervous twitching mess. My ladyfriend had to drive me to the ER at 4:30 a.m. because I thought I was having a heart-attack. Everything checked out perfect and the kindly ER doctor said they see many people like me and it's just anxiety. I refused to take anymore Lexpro and weaned off of it ASAP. I did therapy cold-turkey with no more drugs. I think my doctor definitely read me wrong. The Lexapro hyped me up when I needed something to relax me.
Several years ago, experimented with a mild dose of Celexa, after reading in a back book that mild-doses of anti-depressants had been found to be benefical for back-pain. I got some degree of benefit, probably equal to anyother palative modality like accupuncture, massage or the gammut of band-aid treatments that give temporary escape from the of TMS stress creating interactions with the "real world".` |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2006 : 11:11:54
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quote:
Originally posted by PeterMcKay
I don't go to therapy sessions. No one in my area believes in TMS and it is a waste of time trying to convince them otherwise. I would do better by exerting my energy on working out my own issues rather than arguing with a shrink. If you found someone that ca help you and have a thick wallet that it great. I actually suggested TMS to one therapist and he was almost screaming at me on the phone.
If that is your experience with therapy then I can understand why you don't want any part of them. It sounds like that therapist that was screaming at you was likely afraid of his repressed emotion and taking it out on you. I think the area that i'm living is considerably better wrt good therapists.
I can relate to the frustration of unmovable symptoms and even now after all the work i've done I still an not rid of my TMS symptoms although I have improved measureably. It feels like i'm trying to change a belief system chisseled(sp) in stone. Progress with symptoms is very slow but steady.
Years before I saw any change I realized that I had to get to the feelings and were locked away in my unconscious and believed that inner child work was the best approach to doing that. The process was extremely prolonged but over time more and more of my feelings started to be revealed.
The good news is that a lot of inner child work can be done alone, although I did reach a point where I plataeued and needed help to push deeper into feelings.
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2006 : 14:08:48
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Miehnesor
You sound like a compassionate person. I am working on things - getting more active, working out to keep in shape and challenge the pain, taking university courses, journaling regularily and doing my daily few pages of Sarno reading. I think I have a good healthy balance, not working on TMS all the time, as I did before, but not ignoring it either. Yes, it is frustrating and I do agree that there are a lot of inner child issues involved in my case as well as feelings of insecurity and low self esteem, and I am trying to flesh these out in my journaling sessions. Time and patience, I hope, will give me more progress. Remember, I was on my back almost unable to walk over a year ago, so perhaps just being on my feet and getting on with my life is about the best I can hope for now. "Resume normal all nornal physical activity," the good doctor says. Best advice he ever gave in all of his writings.
Did you read any of John Bradshaw's work? |
Edited by - n/a on 05/26/2006 14:10:00 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2006 : 15:46:52
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quote:
Time and patience, I hope, will give me more progress. Remember, I was on my back almost unable to walk over a year ago, so perhaps just being on my feet and getting on with my life is about the best I can hope for now. "Resume normal all nornal physical activity," the good doctor says. Best advice he ever gave in all of his writings.
Since it seems you're back in the mood to talk about your situaiton again, I can't resist pointing out the obvious...You said you haven't made any progress, and yet look at what you've just said...You were bedridden for crying out loud... Now you're out of bed, walking around, etc. Didn't you also say you're working out some? Peter, for someone who has seen no progress, that's quite a change, wouldn't you say? |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2006 : 16:05:25
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| Yes, I guess you are correct Art, but at times it just becomes overwhelming and in the moment I feel no progress has been made at all. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2006 : 16:15:15
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quote:
Originally posted by PeterMcKay
Did you read any of John Bradshaw's work?
Yes- i've based my recovery on his inner child work and I believe he has a good approach. I've attended two of his weekend seminars and a men's group was formed out of one of those weekend sessions that i've been in for over 3 years now (although the group is probably ending now). I've been pushing inner child work on this forum for those stuborn unconscious cases since it is the only thing that loosened up those repressed feelings and eased the insane symptoms.
One of the things i've learned about TMS is that for tough cases it can take a lot of time and patience and dedication. My sense is that you have all of those and you understand TMS well. You will prevail! Just look after that child within yourself for answers. He will give them to you if you give him the love and support that he needs.(wow felt the sadness just then) |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2006 : 23:11:52
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Thanks for your comments, Logan. It has been a tough week or so. Ironically, after the comments I made about being pretty much done with the physical symptoms of the past months, I had a slight relapse. The past few days I've had that sensation of weak or shaky legs I'd had off and on a few months ago. Concurrent has been the daily increase in depression that seemed to start when I got back from my vacation (where I ran a marathon). I haven't been running at all since I returned and that too may be part of the problem. I'm pretty sure the leg symptoms arise when my mood falls. The two--physical symptoms and mood symptoms--always seem to occur together. I don't recall ever having physical symptoms when upbeat mentally.
This is how I see the process working: declining mood--physical symptoms--catastrophizing (imagining the worst)--extreme anxiety and spiraling mood--physical symptoms worsen...a vicious cycle.
I can relate to the frustration Peter expressed about the pace of improvement. Sometimes it seems like a zig-zag pattern, though I must say the general trend has been upward. Still, it is frustrating to see improvement and then an occasional reversal because one fears one has been deluding one's self all along. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2006 : 06:29:03
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quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
Thanks for your comments, Logan. It has been a tough week or so. Ironically, after the comments I made about being pretty much done with the physical symptoms of the past months, I had a slight relapse. The past few days I've had that sensation of weak or shaky legs I'd had off and on a few months ago. Concurrent has been the daily increase in depression that seemed to start when I got back from my vacation (where I ran a marathon). I haven't been running at all since I returned and that too may be part of the problem. I'm pretty sure the leg symptoms arise when my mood falls. The two--physical symptoms and mood symptoms--always seem to occur together. I don't recall ever having physical symptoms when upbeat mentally.
This is how I see the process working: declining mood--physical symptoms--catastrophizing (imagining the worst)--extreme anxiety and spiraling mood--physical symptoms worsen...a vicious cycle.
I can relate to the frustration Peter expressed about the pace of improvement. Sometimes it seems like a zig-zag pattern, though I must say the general trend has been upward. Still, it is frustrating to see improvement and then an occasional reversal because one fears one has been deluding one's self all along.
It's easy to lose track of progress. For one thing, we're often disappointed that our happiness levels haven't kept apace...Our back pain, to pick one obvious example, can be gone, but it's still perfectly possible to be just as miserable as ever...wrld posted about this...
I make an effort to think about where I was not just a month ago, but a year ago... When I do this, the progress I've made is undeniable... |
Edited by - art on 05/28/2006 06:29:42 |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2006 : 19:03:42
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Peter
I know a therapist in montreal who believes in TMS ...
P. |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2006 : 20:10:12
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| Do tell. I don't live in Montreal, but pass along his/her contact info |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2006 : 08:55:46
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| for some crazy reason I cannot access my e-mail these days |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 06:15:51
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Well, it is preety much confirmed that, besides myself, there are at least three other people in my apartment building that have TMS, although they would not call it that as they do not know about. Two are very severe cases and one of those people was a victim of sexual abuse by two of her uncles when she was a child and she gave birth to a child as a result of that. She has pain all over her body now that she is around 50 years old. She has had numerous tests done to her with nothing being found. She did listen to Dr. Sarno's "Healing Back" on tape which I loaned her but she has some very deep issues she is dealing with. Another person is currently experiencing low back pain, apparently stemming from and injury 18 years ago. He said something about a bulging disk and was waiting for it to pop back in.....You all heard it before. I tried to mention Dr. Sarno, but said that unless I was willing to present him a medical degree that he did not want any medical advice.
I told you about the other person here:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2095
I gave her Dr. Sarno's Healing Back Pain as a gift and she promised to read it. When you listen to her story you will know whay she has TMS. Her parents, especially her dad, is unrelenting in placing pressure on her and putting her down.
The sad thing is that so many people, and yes including myself, are walking around in pain with nothing wrong with them yet when you look at their lives and their past biography it is easy to see what the source of the pain is. It is much harder, however, to see the source of the problem in oneself as we have many blind spots. Let's face it, when we look in the mirror we see something different than what the rest of the world sees. |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 11:05:33
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| It appears this message is in a continual loop. The same items and same questions get posted over and over again, and no one seems to takr the time of checking the archives before asking a question that most likely has already been answered, either here or in one of Dr. Sarno's books. For example, someone askd what kind of psychoptherapy they should refer to. This question has been covered so extensively in Dr. Sarno's books it leads me to the conclusion that the questioner nver even read even one page of Sarno. In addition, it is rather frutstrating at times to find nothing new being said and torturious discussions about physical pain which serve no objective purpose other than inflicting further suffering on those who have to read about it. STOP TALKING ABOUT PAIN PEOPLE!!!!!If I am correct, the purpose of this board is NOT about disusscions reagarding pain but on strategies - using the works of Dr. Sarno and other TMS practioners - and how to overcome this pain. The more you talk about pain the more it will stay with us. |
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Dr. Sarno is a genius
