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vikki
95 Posts |
 Posted - 02/21/2006 : 10:27:17
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I've realized that one of the main issues underlying my TMS symptoms is the fear of getting older and dying. When my TMS started, I had just turned 30. When I first started getting pain in my hips and legs, I thought about it in disasterous terms: "Oh, no -- now my body is starting to fall apart. I'll never be able to run again, and I'll get all out of shape. Things will keep degenerating until I'm disabled." I know now that this is not true. But the fact is, someday, I *will* develop *some* kind of degenerative condition and eventually die -- this is inevitable no matter how well I take care of myself. I'm frightened of this inevitability -- I get scared and depressed every time I turn a year older. This fear makes me into a hypochondriac -- I'm on high alert for any physical symptoms, and I take "health nut" to the extreme, obsessing about eating the right things and staying healthy. (Yes, I know that *stress* is also a cause of poor health ...)
I wish I could somehow make peace with the idea of getting older and dying. Does anyone have any advice on dealing with these fears?
Vikki |
Edited by - vikki on 02/21/2006 10:29:04 |
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Tunza
New Zealand
198 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 13:31:43
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Hi Vikki,
I hear you! This is a biggy for me too.
What I have found useful is a few different things:
- journalling these feelings so that I know I have a specific time of day to fret about them. Otherwise I would think about it all the time.
- reading about mindfulness (eg Authors like Jon Kabat Zin, Eckbert Tolle etc). Helps to remember to live in the moment (leave the worrying to when I am journalling) and enjoy each moment more. Even the really mundane ones like just doing the dishes.
- reminding myself how lucky I am to be here at all and that I would prefer the luxury of getting old than to never have been born at all.
I have had anxiety since I was about 8 years old and it's always been about fear of death. These things haven't made it go away but they definitely help me. The journalling one I have only started since discovering Sarno and I am still struggling to get myself do it every day. It helps when I do journal but there's always something "fun" to do so I find it hard to make myself sit down and face my yukky feelings.
Hope that helps,
Tunza
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geeta
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 15:20:00
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I can related to that, i think about death a lot as well and have done since i was about 10 years old. I also worry about my family members dying all the time!
I don't think i am worrying that i am going to die or people i know are going to die because that has got to happen to everyone in the end. but more the fear of that it will be before i or they will get old.(I would love everyone to live to 100)
"the only thing i can think of worse than dying is not living"
Nathan
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Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 17:31:10
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I was okay until my parents died within 2 years of each other.
I was 40 ish. Since then, although I didnt really recognise it until about 6 years ago...I have had a preoccupation with death and dying.
I find myself thinking about it, and if effects my outlook.
I get this kind of...what's the point, I'm only going to die anyway....I hate it...but I dont know how to shake it off.
I have gotten worse with menopause I am sure.
I now find myself over reacting to symptoms....can just have a little thing, it is always going to something big....But I ride it out and do eventually move past it or go to the Dr to re assure myself. i am so different than I was years ago.
I think if I could get rid of some of the anxiety some of my symptoms would let go of me. How silly to keep scaring myself.
At least we know there are 3 of us. How old are we all and are we all female....just curious..
Thanks for starting the thread. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 20:00:58
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Vikki--It's eerie to have someone else express this fear exactly as I've been seeing it the past 10 years or so. But it's surprising to hear from someone so young! Thirty yrs old? That's a child. I think even hychochondriacal I felt invincible at that age.
Like you, I have been obsessed with health--eating right, exercise, vitamins, avoiding things that are bad for me... but taking it to an unhealthy extreme. I have been known to annoy people by telling them why what they are eating is unhealthy or how they should avoid a particular toxin. Most people don't take kindly to being lectured to even when they know you are right. Anyway, I've noticed almost an inverse relationship between how much painstaking effort I put into staying as healthy as I can and my hypochondriacal symptoms. What I've been trying lately is part of what you mentioned: acknowledging the inevitable decline and death of the body. That, and intentionally doing something unhealthy, like eating french fries, or refraining from doing something healthy, like taking a vitamin or exercise.
Changing is definitely not easy because healthy habits for me is not simply commonsense, but something having more to do with avoiding the "terrible" things in life; sickness and death. |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 21:12:07
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| Vikki - I agree with Tunza, I have read Eckhart Tolle, and Gary Zukav,and other spiritual books, and seem to have lost my fear of death,and aging. At least not the day to day fear I had. I believe that the soul lives on. I believe you are much more than your physical body, your thoughts, etc. In fact, I am sure you are. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 21:59:29
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Vikki,
Have you read Denial of Death by Becker? Fascinating, somewhat challenging read...Turns out Freud was wrong...it's about death, not sex. Our entire culture, not just our religions are set up to help us to enable us to get through the day without having to think about our terrifying human plight...
Some of Woody Allens films have fear of death as a central theme....notably Hannah and Her Sisters...The scene where Woody gets the news that he's not dying of a brain tumor is brilliant. He goes running down the street in celebration only to realize a few seconds later that no, he's not dying now, at this moment, of this particular thing, but he will in fact die some day...
He goes into a terrible depression for a long while, eventually wondering into a Marx brother movie where he has the epiphany that he might as well enjoy life while he can....laugh while he's still able..
Simplistic perhaps, but I find it helpful..
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Special One
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 22:14:11
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I don't necessarily fear death, but I do fear a life of pain. That fear has just crept up on me lately since I started getting so many nagging pains at once. They are not terrible, but I fear years of this or worse. Luckily I stumbled upon the tms book in my Dad's office as I was cleaning it out while he was in the hospital recovering from a stroke. I thought the book would be good for my husband, but then realized that it applied to me, too. NOw I am dealing with this fear as a root of the pain. It's funny that the fear of pain=pain. I definitely fear my parent's deaths, now that they both have compromised health. My mom has liver cancer. I think my dad's stroke may have been due to that stressful discovery. I am always looking at older people and wondering if they are in pain, if they have overcome pain, if they enjoy their old age, etc. I was also helped by the book, "The Power of Positive Thinking" by Norman Vincent Peale. This is a great book for lifting the spirits, especially if you have a belief in God. Even if not it is helpful.
Ultimately, I figure if I can learn to conquer pain at my age, 30, I can look forward to getting older. My daughter, who is seven doesn't want to get older. She says it's because she loves her life. I wonder if it is partly because she hears me worrying about physical concerns, though I try not to bring it to her attention. I want to have her love of life as well as being fearless about aging. The book I mentioned above has some really good thoughts on aging, health and how to get the best out of life. Hmmm, maybe I'll read it again. Here's to a long, healthy, life! |
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vikki
95 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 10:16:39
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Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. I actually feel better to know that so many other people share this fear. Part of the problem for me, I think, is that I'm spiritually challenged. I *wish* I could have faith in God or an afterlife of some sort -- and I've really tried to cultivate this. But ultimately, I keep coming back to the feeling that it's all speculation and nobody can know any of this with much degree of confidence.
Tunza and Altherunner -- I will try the Eckhart Tolle books. Thanks for the suggestion. Tunza, I used to journal many years ago -- I think it definitely helped relieve my anxiety. I should probably start again.
Nathan -- when I was younger, I used to worry a *LOT* about my family members dying. I still do, to a certain extent. I sometimes think all I want is to live to be 100 -- but I think, for me, this is more about buying time to make peace with the idea of death. That is, when I'm 99, I'm still likely to want 100 more years unless I've managed to make peace with it. Or maybe not -- who knows.
Saf -- I'm a 31-year-old female. While I've always worried about this stuff, the most recent trigger was the death of my father-in-law. Towards the end, he was so depressed and afraid to die -- he knew it was coming. I had always comforted myself with the thought that by the time I got close to death, I would have "figured things out." But then I realized that I'll probably be like my father-in-law.
wrldtv -- You sound just like me with the vitamins and healthy habits :-) I have also been trying, lately, to make myself do unhealthy things. Like eating out without worrying about whether the food is healthy, or eating a chocolate bar every day.
Art -- I haven't read Becker, but I think it's true that a large part of our culture seems geared towards helping us avoid thinking of death. I think you (and Woody Allen) are absolutely right about the simple philosophy of enjoying life while you're able. This is what I need to grasp. Unfortunately, I become obsessive about this too -- "Am I really making the most of every moment? Have I wasted my life so far?"
Special One -- I will try Peale's book too. The realization that fear of pain=pain was also a big one for me. It's amazing -- and pretty scary -- what that fear can do, huh? I've been overwhelmed by pain and fear for the past year, and I feel like I'm just starting to dig myself out.
Anyway, thanks again for the replies :-) |
Edited by - vikki on 02/22/2006 10:29:53 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 16:18:48
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Vikki,
You're just paying the price for being a sensitive and intelligent person in this world...There are no simple answers, in fact, no answers at all really...
I think it comes down to how well we can distract ourselves..Some find a great deal of solace in service to others....If you're lucky enough to have some sort of creative talent, that can be another outlet. The trick I think is to find meaning while we're alive.
Something else: think about your life as an opportunity to get ready, to come to terms with the way things are. Trappist monks greet each other every day with "memento mori," Latin for "remember you are dying."
I very much want to be prepared when the time comes. Otherwise, it seems to me I've wasted the time given me. I don't want to live to some ripe old age and find myself as afraid of death as I was when I was twenty. It just seems a godawful waste of time, as if I've had 80 years to study for an exam and never cracked a book.. |
Edited by - art on 02/22/2006 16:26:29 |
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deano
1 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 17:55:13
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This is my first post and it was prompted by your comments on fear of death. It has been with me for a very long time and still is. What you describe about yourself could have described much of me as well. I have decided that we have different parts demanding to be heard, to have a seat at our table. Sometimes they yell and scream for attention and it is impossible to ignore them. This may be one of your parts.
There is excellent research and experience on the benefits of meditation. Often, when we hear that word, we may think of some rigid sitting postion and humming a sound. It might be that for some but it can be dozens of things; whatever works for you. If you can strive for twenty minutes, starting with whatever you can manage, seeking that which is deep inside, there will be benefits. The "monkey mind" will dart in a thousand directions but just pay it no heed. Let it run around, but keep coming back to your "spot." Maybe you can manage to get a few seconds in a space not invaded by the monkey mind. Many experts say to identify that spot with your own private word or sound or phrase and keep it as yours. Whatever works. Your inside will be grateful. Staying with it is important, even if you backslide for a few days or even weeks. I am not saying your fear will go away, but it and other pesky stuff can be calmed down.
I hope you like to read. A recognized author here is Herbert Benson, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School. Amazon will turn up his books. See if the titles and sample content resonate with you. His prose is easily readable. Web searches will also show his name. The examples and research are powerful.
All of this is easy to talk about but hard to do. Still, see what you think; whether for you it is worth a try. All best wishes.
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 23:37:40
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As long as we're mentioning books here, I'll recommend two very good ones I just finished dealing with mindfulness and with fear and doubt. "Beginning Mindfulness" by Andrew Weiss and "Radical Acceptance" by Tara Brach. The Weiss book is an excellent introduction to mindfulness and how best to go about it, while the Brach book (she's a therapist as well as well-know meditation leader) shows how to deal with some major fears in our lives such as that of death, using a spiritual, mindful approach.
Vikki--you sound just like me, everything you've said so far in all your posts. The latest is wishing you could buy into a God and an afterlife...that's exactly where I am. I've gradually come to this state after years of searching. The more I searched the more unlikely the whole thing sounded. |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 08:59:41
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This is a tough one but this is what I think
There is always the possibility of bad things happening in life.....death, rejection by loved ones, injury, accidents, etc....
but there has to a balance of what we focus on. If we focus too much on what could go wrong that is out of balance because we aren't keeping in my mind what could go right.
Michael Jordan said that he never thought about missing a game winning shot because he was too focused on making it. So when we focus (or fear) on death, we must refocus on life and the present moment and the gift of life that we have been given. Its all about conditioning just like TMS is. What you focus on expands. Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 09:02:07
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This is a tough one but this is what I think
There is always the possibility of bad things happening in life.....death, rejection by loved ones, injury, accidents, etc....
but there has to a balance of what we focus on. If we focus too much on what could go wrong that is out of balance because we aren't keeping in my mind what could go right.
Michael Jordan said that he never thought about missing a game winning shot because he was too focused on making it. So when we focus (or fear) on death, we must refocus on life and the present moment and the gift of life that we have been given. Its all about conditioning just like TMS is. What you focus on expands. Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change |
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 10:38:28
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Due to a number of spiritual experiences I've had, I don't fear death. Here's a key one I had about 28 years ago.
One night after falling asleep, I found myself in space (not physical space). At the time I was a science loving atheist, but during this experience I found myself in a heaven like realm, clearly understood I was wrong when it came to believing that there is no such thing as an afterlife, completely understood how the afterlife is possible, understood that everything works out wonderfully for everybody in the end, and felt a degree of happiness, fullness and well being I had never felt before. I felt the feeling of perfection we all seek in various ways. I also saw a very bright white light/star. Even though my regular thinking mind was still working, I understood all of this without having to think about it. The knowledge was instantaneous. The experience was wonderful.
Some people might say I just had a dream and my mind imagined this experience. What I experienced was way beyond anything my biological based mind could've imagined. Based upon what I had experienced during my physical life, my mind didn't have the data to create such an experience.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 12:02:14
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Albert,
Have you read Varieties of Religious Experience by William James? If not, you'll find you're not at all alone.
I do not believe in any kind of after-life...way too convenient for my taste...but that's not to say I don't have great respect for the kind of epiphany you had.
The older I get, the less I know. |
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vikki
95 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 12:08:24
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Thanks again, all.
I just bought Brach's Radical acceptance book and will try reading it. It sounds like it's at my level. (I have a very difficult time comprehending spiritual stuff -- basically anything that can't be expressed in math :-)
Thinking of life as an opportunity to come to terms with this stuff seems to me a good way of looking at it.
I've tried medidtation in the past but got very frustrated and impatient with it. Most of the guides say to start with "just" 20 minutes -- but I start getting restless after barely 5 minutes. So maybe that's the length of time I need to start with.
As for faith in God and an afterlife, I think I've realized that you can't come to this intellectually, by logical proofs or empirical evidence. I think you have to cultivate faith in a different way, and I'm slowly trying to work on that. |
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 13:26:32
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Art:
I know of this book, but haven't read it. I've read of numerous experiences though.
quote:
Originally posted by art
Albert,
Have you read Varieties of Religious Experience by William James? If not, you'll find you're not at all alone.
I do not believe in any kind of after-life...way too convenient for my taste...but that's not to say I don't have great respect for the kind of epiphany you had.
The older I get, the less I know.
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 13:33:36
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Vikki:
I've meditated a lot, and found that the best way to grow as a person is by getting out there and interacting with the rest of World in a positive way.
You're right about not being able to figure it out intellectually. All kinds of attempts have been made to do so, and the main thing that has resulted is a bunch of deferring belief systems.
quote:
Originally posted by vikki
Thanks again, all.
I just bought Brach's Radical acceptance book and will try reading it. It sounds like it's at my level. (I have a very difficult time comprehending spiritual stuff -- basically anything that can't be expressed in math :-)
Thinking of life as an opportunity to come to terms with this stuff seems to me a good way of looking at it.
I've tried medidtation in the past but got very frustrated and impatient with it. Most of the guides say to start with "just" 20 minutes -- but I start getting restless after barely 5 minutes. So maybe that's the length of time I need to start with.
As for faith in God and an afterlife, I think I've realized that you can't come to this intellectually, by logical proofs or empirical evidence. I think you have to cultivate faith in a different way, and I'm slowly trying to work on that.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 13:36:42
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For what it's worth, I'm the world's worst meditator. I just don't seem to have it in me. I've read the books, or at least some of them, and have tried practicing mindfullness. It just gives me a headache...
For me, a big key is immersing myself in physical activity, something I suppose could be argued is another form of meditation. I'm never more content than when on some long, hard run, never further from death, or thoughts of death anyway..
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 22:55:03
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I recently started meditating again after a long absence. I think it helps to meditate with a group in the beginning. Not only does it provide the discipline, but one gets feedback and advice from the others. It's not so important the type of meditation one does, but the regularity of it. It doesn't matter how many minutes a day; 5 minutes will do in the beginning if that's all you can bear. Later, you will naturally want to do more.
I usually practice once a week with a local group and then try to get in a daily meditation at home each morning from 10-20 minutes. Some days are easy and others are unbearable, but it seems to get easier with time.
The good thing about mindfulness is that you do not have to sit in formal meditation; you can be mindful at any time, any place (easier said than done), and that's where I would like to be someday. |
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Fear of getting older/ fear of death
