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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
 Posted - 02/01/2006 : 15:59:15
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In journaling, you can write about anything BUT YOUR PAIN! So it is the exact opposite of what you did previously. It is good to start with certain issues like your parents death, and let it go from there.
Based on what you wrote, I think that anger at your parents for essentially "killing themselves slowly" is a very likely issue, even if you don't feel it. Repressed emotions are the key, especially when the emotions are ones we wouldn't like to admit to ourselves that we would have. Guilt about such selfish emotions just adds to the cycle, so part of the recovery process is acknowledging that the feelings exist, and that they are normal and ok! It's not an easy process, but it's better than being miserable and in pain... |
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Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 16:48:09
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I want to thank everyone that has taken the trouble to try to help me with this. I dont know if it is my problem, I cant see how my migraines can come with a hormone cycle because of these "rages" inside of me. But I would like to know why I get migrianes and the next woman doesnt....
I will keep trying to understand, but between the head pain and concentration, lack of, I find Sarnos books really repetitive and well, boring....sorry guys.
Maybe I am a little blighted because of my psychology back ground....most of it is not news to me. Freud stuff was a bit too self obsesive for me. But the fellas liked it...
I dont know. I am so desperate to get better, but I seem to have tried everything our there and nothing changes. Still cant decide if RT is my thing. I would have hoped after 9 sessions that I would see a glimmer....Is anyone else using it or tried it please, or MRT.
Anyway, thank you, all of you I REALLY appreciate your comments.
Thanks. |
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lastlostmonkey
35 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 04:03:58
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Hi Saf,
what is RT and MRT?
I also have problems with the Freudian basis for Sarno's stuff, all that penis envy just smacks too much of misogyny for me. I think that in order to accept it I have to divorce the Sarno theories from a 'to-the-letter' Freudian approach and make it more common sense, i.e. I have repressed anger from my childhood and things that happened to me. I can accept that much. Also I find it reassuring, again in a common sense way, that if you read Freud and Breuer's 'Studies in Hysteria' you come across case after case of physical pain (often limb pain) which has no physical cause and disappears during the psychoanalytical process. It seems to me that all our pain is just a 2006 version of Freud's 'hysterics' pain, it's an old story and just one that people keep on forgetting, inexplicably.
On a more supportive note (hopefully), I think it takes time to really let the ideas sink in. I believe the theory rationally but it's only gradually that it's opening up other things for me and sinking in emotionally, I can't really express it any more coherently, sorry. If you consistently get migraines at particular times during your cycle perhaps it isn't TMS? Or, if it is, perhaps you are more emotional at that time because of your hormonal changes and so your pain ups to keep it all in? Just speculation.
lastmonkey |
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gevorgyan
115 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 04:26:15
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I will repeat once more, please, read the book „Of two minds” by F. Schiffer. You can find there lots of answers.
"This" doesn't have to be "a rage" stored in "an unconscious". "This" can be the difference between the two minds that we have (according to investigations).
The first is the leading one, strongly developed responsible for our day by day life. The second is very sensitive and vulnerable, this part stores all the worst things that had happened and can be not able to forget or forgive anything.
Both minds are fully logical. And the treatment is about educating the second mind by the first one, just to diminish the difference.
The author started from Freud but now is far away from freudian technique – in my opinion is much more advanced.
For me this approach explains the different reactions (opinions) on the same situation, which I can find during psychologically thinking.
Monika
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Edited by - gevorgyan on 02/03/2006 06:17:59 |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 12:13:56
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| Remember, there is a physical substrate that is predisposed for problems like migraine, and emotional stressors are not the only cause. Some people clearly have migraines related to menses and hormonal changes, and these may benefit from modalities besides just working with TMS. I hate to sound like a heretic once again, but ignoring decades of advances in medical treatment of migraine just because the medical establishment is wrong about many aspects of pain/TMS seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. |
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Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 16:51:55
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Okay just to respond to the last two postings, for which I thank you.
The book "Of two minds", well first I have to get it and second, as I have explained (I think) reading is damn hard with a pain in your head, and my concentration is lousy (thank you Fibromyalgia), so I have to get my husband to read most things that go beyond "Dr Seuss".
BUT I will get it and one of us will read it. It cant be any less help than Sarno's when it comes to actual "help". can it??
Thank you for reminding me Monika.
And yes I know about the two minds, I did psychology and RT/MRT which I was asked about is Reverse Therapy, and it is supposed to sort all this stuff out by adressing the Body mind instead of the head mind....so far it aint working...MOre info if required.
Finally, I so agree about the baby bathwater analogy. I have migraines from nowhere and had a long time to try to suss the reason. I am not giving up on my medication or my quest to find a treatment that might dampden down the hormone activity, but I sure need all the help I can get.
And yes, I am sure it does take time, and I wasnt in the line when they were giving out patience, and since Christmas I have had wall to wall migraine and it doesnt help me be calm and patient, but I am so glad I found this forum, you cant know how much it has helped me throu gh such a difficlut time....thanks all.
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Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 16:56:53
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Okay just to respond to the last two postings, for which I thank you.
The book "Of two minds", well first I have to get it and second, as I have explained (I think) reading is damn hard with a pain in your head, and my concentration is lousy (thank you Fibromyalgia), so I have to get my husband to read most things that go beyond "Dr Seuss".
BUT I will get it and one of us will read it. It cant be any less help than Sarno's when it comes to actual "help". can it??
Thank you for reminding me Monika.
And yes I know about the two minds, I did psychology and RT/MRT which I was asked about is Reverse Therapy, and it is supposed to sort all this stuff out by adressing the Body mind instead of the head mind....so far it aint working...More info if required.
Finally, I so agree about the baby bathwater analogy. I have migraines from nowhere and had a long time to try to suss the reason. I am not giving up on my medication or my quest to find a treatment that might dampden down the hormone activity, but I sure need all the help I can get.
And yes, I am sure it does take time, and I wasnt in the line when they were giving out patience, and since Christmas I have had wall to wall migraine and it doesnt help me be calm and patient, but I am so glad I found this forum, you cant know how much it has helped me through such a difficlut time....thanks all.
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 17:15:00
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Regarding migraines during hormonal cycle - I used to get really bad headaches during mine and took Evening Primrose Oil which appeared to help. But I had to take more and more for it to be effective and was getting to ridiculous levels.
These headaches were the first thing I tackled with the TMS approach (almost as an experiment). It worked for me.
Hilary N |
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Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 17:42:33
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Hilary,
Thank you for those positive words. I am heartned to hear another woman express success with "my" problem.
I seem to be a bit of a slow starter, is there anything in particular that you did/used for the migraine. I think I can do it if I can just knock them back. If yu had them bad, yu know how hard it is to do....well anything at that time. Its not fear of "hurting" yourself as with some of the other pains, it is just not possible to function....any further comments gratefully received.
Thanks,
Saf |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 05:14:06
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Hi Saf, here’s my story:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1322
(the headache bit is somewhere in the middle).
I think the key was tackling it before it came on, or when it was just starting – that way you have more mental energy and strength for tackling it. Also challenging the fear and negative thinking about it. So at the time you think it’s going to start, instead of thinking, “Oh no, here it comes” (negative, fear), think determinedly, “Oh no you don’t! I know what’s causing this and I’m not going to let it happen.” (challenging it). I don’t mean you necessarily know the emotion which is causing it, I mean you understand (from listening to the CD’s / your husband reading out the book) the process which is causing it.
Good luck!
Hilary N |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 11:33:37
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| Thanks for recommending "Of two minds” by F. Schiffer, MD. I am reading it now and I cannot put it down. It is a must read and has very many excellent and sound insights. It is also extremely easy to read and very convincing. Even Dr. Sarno writes that he suscpects two minds are in operation with TMS patients. (see is psychology sections, especially Mind Body Precription) I am 100% certain Dr. Sarno would recommend this book if he were to read it based on my understanding of Sarno's work. I don't think there are any contradictions between Dr. Sarno and Dr. Schiffer, but only, perhaps, emphasis. If only they could get together. Dr. Sarno's forthcoming book has almost the same title and a similar theme, so if you cannot wait for Dr. Sarno's new book to come out then read Dr. Schiffer's in the meantime. He does not mention physical pain in the book, however, but he does talk about the onset of other symptoms based on what is taking place in our brain. I also note that Dr. Candice Pert, whom Dr. Sarno praises, has highly recommend Dr. Schiffer's book. |
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Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 13:50:14
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Got a copy of The Journey today and will start it ASAP.
Still waiting for the Two minds, but looking forward to it.
There are so many books out there, I wonder which one is the easiest read and most specific "instructions".
Respectfully, I dont need the actual theory/back ground, I learned it all 20 years ago. For me reading other success stories over and over doesnt help, it just enforces my failure.
As a famous Englishman said: "Give us the Tools and we will finsih the job". My husband and I both feel that way.
He has read Sarno's book twice and still doesnt see how it will help his back pain, but I am convinced he is a TMS back person. He has had every test out there and there is no physical reason for his pain. Like me he favours a direct approach and we are hoping that "two minds" might meet the critera better.
Hilary, thanks for pointing me to your story, it seem like it was just synchronistic for you. Unfortuantely I am not so lucky, but tomorrow is another day eh??
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
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Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 05:53:52
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Hi Hilary,
Sychronistic.
Sorry, dipping back to my Freudian days. It is one of his.
But I used to find a lot of clients had this.
Just that moment when you read or hear, or meet someone, which just feels so purposeful and fits.
Reading your story, it seems like when you read the books, it all "fell into place" That's great.
Unfortunatly it hasnt happened for me at all. I have read two books...yes Back pain as well, and without sounding off, there wasnt anything I didnt already know and recognise in myself.
I hoped he was going to offer me a way to sort it.
Of course I recognise that for many people this idea is news, and these books are a God send, but alas I am not one of them. I have known my "problem" for many many years, but not been able to find anyone, or anyway to sort it. So have dipped back into the physical and frankly any road to try to get relief from this pain.
So there is my disappointment. But I am not giving up. Hopefully one of these many books will give me my moment of synchronicity and I will then we able to offer hope like you.
Thanks for letting me read your story Hilary, and I am so glad that you are having success.
Saf |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 07:55:33
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Saf,
As a mere mortal with no training in psychotherapy and therefore, possibly, do not "understand this stuff very well" I have to comment here - you say "I have read two of the books and have no problem believing" - but you believe it but don't seem to believe it can work for you or your husband. I think you are tied up in beliefs that you are somehow more educated or life-experienced through your work than the rest of us and, though it works for us lesser mortals, it is too simple an idea to work for you.
Sorry, but that is how it comes over to me and searching for that nugget of enlightenment from other books is probably not the answer.
Anne
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Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 13:46:17
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Oh Anne, no no no no no.
Sorry but you have got it totally wrong. Read my postings again, please. Nowhere do I say I dont think it will work, unless you misunderstood something I said.
Now I might be misunderstanding you, but I felt quite stung by the tone of your posting. It hurt me. I dont know what I said that caused you to write in that way, but I assure you you have got me all wrong.
I am a MERE mortal myself. I havent been able to work since 1992.
I was a practicing Hypnotherapist...i hated the Freudian stuff.
(It was just an expression....surely everyone has heard of synchronicity?? It is even on Encarta....)
To be honest there are postings on here I dont understand at all.
As for education, I left school at 15 to work in my father's baker shop. Not a GCE or A level to my name....married at 21 and havent worked more than a bit of part time since.
I trained in Hypnotherapy when I was almost 40 after it helped me get over my IBS. I wanted to help other people in similar predicaments.
Life experience....where did that one come from?
I have been a stay home mum raising my 3 kids and not been out of the country but the one trip to America 14 years ago. Not much experience there. I have never had a career, just the above for 5 years and I had to give it up 16 years ago, when my parents died.
As for being too simple an idea, arent all the best ideas simple?
It isnt that its simple, maybe its me that's simple, far from the attitude you have misconstrued, I think maybe I am too thick to get it.
I am sorry, but you have totally missed my point, I hope no one else has taken this wrong as well, if so, I am sorry, I shall slink of into the corner...
Such is the danger of the written word I suppose...
My point is, and I shall try to be succint.
I have had problems for many many hears. When I went through analysis myself after a really bad bout of depression, it opened my eyes to the psychological/psychosomatic nature of my problems.
Good news....found the reason....bad news, no one knew how to fix it...Now we are going back over 30 years...
I have since struggled on and tried just about everything to find a way to release this. More recently I discovered Reverse Therapy, which seemed to hit the spot...but hasnt. A lady on the formum for RT, who also didnt recover on it told me about this one. She found Sarnos book a revelation and it all snapped into place for her...she is much better and that is wonderful.
For myself however, it hasnt happened. Perhaps this is because of my past efforts, or because of my training, or maybe its just not for me...But I hope that is not the case.
Whatever the reason, all I was saying is, I dont get it...not I am too good/clever or anything else, just dont get it. (YET!!) I already knew the theory, but if I were able to sort it on a practical basis I would have done and we wouldnt be having this conversation.
I am sorry I explained myself badly and that caused you to misunderstand me,and it would appear to take offence. But I have a lot of migraine, and sometimes perhaps I dont check my writings as well as I might, sometimes I rush it. So I apologise for misleading you in my thoughts, but I do not apologise for my stance. It is how it is for me, I hope for not much longer. I long for something to click into place as it has for many of you here. I am 55, I cant wait for ever to find the golden fleece.
All I was saying was, I hoped it would be something new (to me) and it isnt. Not saying it isnt good, not saying it doesnt work, just that for me (for whatever of the above reasons), so far I am not getting it....I hope that changes.
Regards.
Saf
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 14:01:52
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quote:
Reading your story, it seems like when you read the books, it all "fell into place"
Not at all. Maybe it’s because the headaches weren’t so bad with me as they are for you that I managed to cure them quickly. But for my RSI, my main problem, it took much longer before I noticed any difference, and I would have given up if I hadn’t had extra encouragement.
Unfortunately there isn’t an easy answer as to the way we should approach this and it’s certainly not a quick solution for many of us.
Hilary N |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 15:01:40
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Hi Saf,
Yes,sorry for misunderstanding you. You have a very complicated history.
It sounds as though you are crossing things off as not working too soon. I first read Sarno a year ago and have a way to go yet but am convinced I will get there in the end. You talk of things not clicking in to place or snapping in to place - it's a long haul for most people.
Hope I'm not misjudging you again.
Anne
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Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 16:35:13
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Thank you Hilary, thank you Anne,
Fair comment, I am as stated in an earlier posting not given to patience. Unfortunately this has not been helped by 15 years of trying "cure after cure" spending a fortune and all to no avail (except the Hypnosis for the IBS).
Also, I find the head pains make me very tense, it isnt unusual apparently, and it isnt the sort that goes away if you manage to relax. I think it is some sort of brain message...migraine comes, instant tension and depression. Seratonin problem I beleive.
Anyway. Point taken, I must not expect too much too soon and I WILL not give up.
Hilary, I take your point entirely regarding the RSI. I just wish I could get a glimmer or something, and I truly dont understand what I am supposed to do to use Sarnos "plan". So I dont really feel I have started. (reading "The journey" now....)
I dont have the problem many have, I dont worry about the pain being destructive and worsening with activity. I put up with the muscle pain because compared to the head pains, they are bearable. I just carry on regardless two frozen shoulders and all....
I admit shamefully that the head pains scare me to death...not for any other reason than I cant cope with the pain.
So what do i do or say to these head pains to hopefully get them to abate....even the slightest improvement...less frequent, not quite so painful. I have a migraine every 5/8 days and it usually last at least 2 days. I would be so encouraged so fired up, there would be no stopping me. I run between the clouds now, just like a bit more blue sky.
Thanks so much for your comments ladies, they are much appreciated, and hope I have explained myself better this time.
Good night.
Saf |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 17:15:51
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Saf-Your case does sound complicated but I would guess that you may need to find the repressed anger and connect with it. Remember that this is not something that you can readily feel so one approach, which worked for me, was to just act as if you were angry even though you don't consciously feel it and see if your body feels something. The TMS is there to protect from doing something so you need to start doing detective work to find out what that something is. For me I acted as if I was angry at mom even though I didn't consiously feel the anger. What I discovered was unconsious fear. Fear of what? Later I discovered fear of the mountain of rage that lay below it. I don't know if this is what is going on with you but I just throught I would throw this out in case it may be helpful to you. You are suffering a lot and that probably means the rage is pretty intense. It also means that you are terrified inside. Looking for and finding the fear was really the key for me.
I'm reminded of something that John Lee wrote in his book about anger where he had people beat something with a stick for several minutes. The participants would feel rediculous doing this but eventually something would click and their true buried feelings would come out.
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Is it bereavement? That isnt rage is it?
