| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
 Posted - 01/30/2006 : 06:14:39
|
I have read two of the books and have no problem believing.
I trained in psychotherapy and understand this stuff very well.
But this is about me not a client and having done a lot of work on myself and had a lot done.....cant fathom it.
Talked to my husband and although I had signs of FMS from puberty (IBS and bouts of depression, aching muscles) The crash came in 1999. (I was 49) He lost his job then and there was a lot of stress, but he and my kids think I was gradually sliding after my parents died 1988 and 1991. I am an only and although I grieved openly, maybe some of it got repressed.I couldnt share with anyone really.
My question is....I cant find anything else....could it be their deaths? (both sudden, no illness), After all this time....I just dont know.
I really would welcome anyone else who isnt so new to Sarno to comment please, and if anyone knows where to take this..ha!!
Should add that since they died and I got really sick I have a lot of fear and think about death a lot....not wanting to....just pops into my head.
Sorry this is so long...this is the edited version... |
Edited by - Saf on 01/30/2006 10:15:57 |
|
|
jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 06:49:04
|
hi saf. my mother just died last month, after being seriously ill for several years. I definitely think this plays into it. i went back to work when she was so ill, (worrying what would happen if she got very sick while i was working. she did) her illness was so awful, there was a lot of pain and sadness for my entire family as we cared for her. i dont fear death because of my faith, but i am very sad and miss her a lot. so i do feel that this can aggravate TMS. wish i could be more helpful.
Jill |
 |
|
|
Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 08:02:06
|
Thank you for your comments Jill and sorry to hear of your loss.
Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree. I see a few viewings, but only your comment.
Its just that I have gone through analysis and tried hard to find a "something" but cant figure a source of "rage" except maybe Mum and Dad's passing.
If it aint that, I dont know what it can be.
Maybe TMS is not my problem....but I relate to it well otherwise.
Thanks.
Saf |
|
|
|
h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 08:51:38
|
Saf,
Losing your parents and fears of death and dying, these are not small issues. Just knowing they effect you is certainly a step in the right direction, but these issues have been repressed for years. There's a lot of stuff that needs to come out.
I knew all of my issues, too, but still suffered for 7 years with debilitating pain and a restricted lifestyle. It took time for all of that emotion to quit causing problems.
Remember, the mind needs time to be reprogrammed. When I was working thru Sarno issues, I had to keep reminding myself of the following passage from his book.
quote:
The path to resumption of full physical activity, without fear, may be slow and uneven. Don’t worry if you begin to exercise too soon and experience some pain. You cannot hurt yourself; TMS is a benign process. Continuing pain with activity means the brain is still in the process of changing its programming. You must bide your time, try and try again, and stay secure in the knowledge that you will prevail in the end. This has proven to be the case for thousands of patients.
I kept thinking about those thousands of patients that went before me. Then it didn't seem to me so unlikely that I, too would be pain free, as I am today.
Regards,
Beth |
|
|
|
Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 09:05:33
|
Thank you for your comment Beth.
My problem I think is because of the frequent (every 5 days or so) migraines and in in between head pain, concentrating is hard, reading is harder and doing stuff, even withut the fear of hurting myself, which I am a good way over now, is really hard.
I just took my dog froa 20 minute walk, My head was hurting a bit, but it isnt as cold as yesterday so i went. We were almost home when I saw a neighbour and stopped to chat for a couple of minutes. Whilst talking I got this awful pain in my head and eyes. It isnt shifting, and now I cant continue with my work on here, I wil have to stop. Not becuase of fear of getting worse, but because it hurts too much right now to continue. So what went wrong....
If the issue (many resolved in psychotherapy prior to gettuing this bad) is my grief (after 17 years?), how do I deal with that?
Sarno wants us t oread and re read, but I cant do it, reading is painful and concentration is bad. I really want to do this, I believe in in I have dealt with many clients who had psychosomatic problems....physician heal thyself....
Thanks Beth, appreciate your input. |
|
|
|
samthefish
23 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 09:13:02
|
Hi Saf. For me my TMS symptoms started not long after my Dad's death back in 1993, very sudden and rapidly progressing onset of cancer. My mother died two years later, also from cancer. In my case their deaths definately contribute to inner rage, I find a very effective way to abort symptoms is to let myself experience the grief again firsthand. I'd also be lying if I didn't say I fear cancer myself. All this being said, I don't think their deaths are the "key" to my symptoms, just another (albiet very powerful) source of unconscious rage among many of the stresses of life.
SamTheFish |
Edited by - samthefish on 01/30/2006 11:01:26 |
|
|
|
Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 09:19:37
|
Thank you Sam, I welcome all the advice I can get.
I am sure I grieved, but when my Dad died I tried to be strong for my mum...I actually remember doing this.
When mum went 2 years later, on a bus trip with her blind club...such a shock.
Maybe I have suppressed stuff here...I think maybe I am being mislead by the word "rage".
Can anyone comment on what this means to them please?
I dont feel rage at all. Saddness yes, but rage, no.
Thanks Sam |
|
|
|
samthefish
23 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 10:22:34
|
I also used to have a difficult time with the word "rage". In his video Sarno is asked a question from someone to the effect "Q: but I don't see myself as an angry person, I don't feel angry, how can I be feeling rage" ... Sarno answers that of you don't feel the rage because it's in the unconscious - but that your mind is worried the rage might errupt so it creates the oxygen deprivation/pain as a diversion.
Anything you can consciously feel, like your sadness, is not being repressed, so I doubt it's the problem.
Somewhere in one of Sarno's books/videos I remember the phrase "the problem isn't that (TMS folks) can't cope ... the problem is that they cope (repress emotions) too well."
I went to a military school years ago (where there was lots of hazing/yelling) and my classmates were amazed at how well I "handled" the stress - said that "nothing seemed to bother me". Externally I "looked" and "acted" very placid - think this is an example of a TMSer coping to an extreme, indication that I had the capability to bottle things up too much.
I think everyone's path to success may be different, can say in my case that I'm very impatient and tried too hard in the beginning. Stick at it, it takes time to rewire the way you think -
Good luck, SamTheFish |
|
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 10:31:36
|
I agree "rage" is an unfortunate term.
It has nothing to do with conscious rage. The unconscious rage Sarno speaks about is something we do not feel.
I like to think of it as a child that lives inside all of us. The child feels rage because it resents all the pressures of life. Those pressures induce many different conscious emotions: anger, grief, sadness ... these all add to the rage the child feels.
The child just wants to be left alone, to be lazy, to be taken care of, to not have to face the pressures of being a perfectionist or a goodist. Yet we insist on bringing these pressures on ourselves (even though we are not consciously doing it). |
|
|
|
miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 10:44:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by Saf
Thank you Sam, I welcome all the advice I can get.
I am sure I grieved, but when my Dad died I tried to be strong for my mum...I actually remember doing this.
When mum went 2 years later, on a bus trip with her blind club...such a shock.
Maybe I have suppressed stuff here...I think maybe I am being mislead by the word "rage".
Can anyone comment on what this means to them please?
I dont feel rage at all. Saddness yes, but rage, no.
Thanks Sam
Saf- this sounds a lot like what I would have written a couple of years ago when I could connect with the sadness but certainly nothing like rage. My symptoms did not move until I felt the repressed fear and later the rage itself. There was no mistaking the rage! When you feel it you will know and all this confusion for you will end.
I highly recommend that you find someone who you can feel safe with. This is very tough stuff and requires that you feel safe and protected. It's very scary for the inner child to display anger towards parents that's why it is often repressed.
While most TMSers don't have to go this deep some do and if you feel like you need to then go for it. |
|
|
|
Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 13:48:43
|
You guys are awesome, thanks so much for al lthe comments and explanations. I am new to this, but not new to Fibro...only wish I was. I am really struggling to understand, not the principle, but what we are supposed to do. Because its hard to read with frequent headpains, and concentration isnt good. I hoped to find a page or two with actual instructions....what to say to yourself, when etc. A>B>C.....Cant find that and neither can my husband in the Back book.
But i do find myself thinking about the grief possiblilty, so maybe that is my mind giving me a clue.
If anyone can offer me an "instruction" sheet, because I am apparently too thick to sus it myself, I would be very grateful.
Thank you all for your input, it is invaluable to me as is the support.
Saf |
|
|
|
FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 14:27:34
|
saf , then you should listen to the audio CDS done by Dr.Schecher. 3 CD very well done , one seminar, one information CD and one CD containing an interview with a TMS psychologist.
I am also very new to TMS knowledge (1 month) and it is helping a lot ...
Pat. |
|
|
|
samthefish
23 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 14:32:53
|
Here's some concrete advice, realize it's just based on what's worked for me and you should use it not as "the plan" but "one that worked for SamTheFish"
1. Have a plan. Sarno gives a weath of advice on how to "think psychological" but it was overwhelming trying to assimilate all the bits of advice when I first approached it - helped me very much to schedule a time (20-30 min daily) and a place to meditate on the things I need to do to get better.
2. Work at the cause of TMS from different angles.
-I made a list of all the responsibilities in my life (Dad, husband, employee, uncle, congregant, etc. then spend a few minutes each day thinking about conflicts that come up, also trying to feel or percieve any emotions that might come up
-I made a list of unpleasant emotions:Anger, Fear, Guilt, etc, and think about situtions in the past or recently where they came up
-Made a list of things about my personality and any conflicts therein ... i.e. Does something about my ego love owning a big pickup truck but then another part of me feels guilty about wasting fuel? I was surprised at how many "hidden conflicts" I discovered this way.
-Made a list of "why I know I have TMS", evidence from Sarno, how as a theory it best explains something that was baffling all my doctors, how others with similar personality types (like on this board) also experienced and resolved symptoms, etc.
-I end every session on a "positive" note, thinking thoughts (and mentally "telling" them to my unconscious) like "I am going to take charge of TMS", "TMS is harmless", I'm going to ignore the physical symptoms, "There's nothing to prevent me from getting better", "I'm going to change the way I think", etc. I think essentially it helps to be optomistic - realize you really can get over your symptoms.
I also periodically re-read the psychology section of Sarno's book.
I also write in my journal about things that were emotion provoking (or should have been) during the day.
3. Be patient. Like Sarno says in his book, a small percentage won't respond to the treatment and need to go to therapy to get better, just need some external help to get at the root of the symptoms and change they way they think.
You'll notice I didn't say "pain" once up above - because if you accept Sarno's theory (and I do) you realize that pain has nothing to do with getting better.
Good luck -
SamTheFish |
|
|
|
atg
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 14:35:13
|
Hi Saf,
I too struggled with the head pain whenever I would concentrate too hard, read, even engage in conversation. It gets to be a conditioned response after awhile. You know your head will start hurting when you begin reading because it has before. Inevitably, your head starts hurting. Thinking about it, coming to expect it, eventually leads to the pain. Breaking this cylce is difficult, as I am still in the proccess of it.
As for what is the rage behind your pain, it can be frustrating. I too was trained in psychotherapy and spent 7 years in therapy, myself. I thought I had a solid understanding of my issues and a high level of self-awareness. It can drive you crazy trying to figure out what is the repressed emotion behind the pain. Where to start looking? Maybe it is your parents' deaths, maybe it is other stuff. Most likely it is a combination of things, and not necessarily one issue.
In the appendix of Sarno's "The Mindbody Perscription" (p. 187) Sarno wrote that in all his years, he knew of only one person whose repressed emotions broke through into consciousness. So do not put all this pressure on yourself to actually FEEL all of these repressed emotions. According to Sarno, that is incredibly rare and not necessary to recover. "It was not the discharge of feelings but their recognition that effected the cure."
Hopefully you get to the point where you have no headaches at all. But until you reach that point, I would recommend taking magnesium supplements. They helped reduce the severity of my headaches (blinded clinical studies supports this. Apparently, it helps to relax the arterial walls, allowing the blood and oxygen to flow more freely.) Tricyclic antidepressants also helped reduce the pain.
Good luck
Alan |
Edited by - atg on 01/30/2006 14:36:46 |
|
|
|
HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 14:49:44
|
I was going to suggest getting the audio CD's, too. You can get "Healing Back Pain" on CD. I've just bought that but not listened to it yet. Whichever CD you get, don't worry even if your headache stops you from listening to it. Just put it on anyway. I always tell people who are learning a foreign language to put on the radio (a talking program). Even if they can't understand it and/or aren't actively listening (eg have it on in the background while doing something else), it still goes into their subconscious and helps them learn. I'm sure the same would be true listening to Sarno/Schechter.
Also, stay open to the possibility that it could be something else other than grief at your parents' deaths which is causing the pain.
Hilary N |
|
|
|
Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 15:13:10
|
If you have a severely debilitating pain or health problem you assume that some huge repressed emotion is causing it but don't forget all the little day to day stuff. The tone of voice used by your partner, your boss making an excuse to cut short a discussion, too busy looking after everyone else to do the things YOU want, etc etc.
Are you journalling? That would help.
Anne |
|
|
|
Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 15:28:10
|
Sorry guys, I need an early night, my head let me down, after the dog walk....6 hours ago, it finally culminated in migraine.
The next bit of Friday's I guess, come back on the other side...
I just wanted to say....
Thank you, thank you.
I am printing your comments tomorrow if I can.
I REALLY appreciate your interest and support.
Keep it coming, it is all more help than I have had before....anywhere.
Good night, I need to try and sleep.
Thanks
Saf |
|
|
|
HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 15:50:27
|
One other thought which you've probably already considered, but just in case you haven't, because I can't see it mentioned - have you considered you may be angry with your parents for leaving you?
Hilary N |
|
|
|
Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2006 : 04:47:00
|
Hi Hilary, Actually I hadnt considered this until last week when i was speaking with my husband about Sarnos take. He suggested this might be. I dont think I can say I feel that. I do feel angry at them for the way they died. My dad became and alcoholic (not a drunk) very respectable....didnt even find out mum or me until he was into his 60s, but he shortened his life. Mum died because she smoked, the coroner told me that. So that angers me, I do remember feeling I hadnt "finished " with them, and I had been a carer for my mum to some extent because she went blind.
Dunno, could be I guess. I have sussed that the migraines I get are stil linked to a hormone cycle I shouldnt have any more, but still have to figure why I get migraines and say....you dont...I guess that's where the psychology comes in.
Thanks very much for your comment.
Saf |
|
|
|
Saf
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2006 : 05:25:26
|
Sorry Anne,
Missed your posting. No I am not journaling, not sure what one does.
I have now had 9 sessions of RT and not a jot better, is it the same kind of journaling? I am on the point of giving up on RT. Might be good for CFS but not sure it works on FMS and Migraines.
Cant afford many more anyway. VERY dissapointed (not to mention broke).
I have always kept a diary and the last few year a record of "pain problems" because the Dr asked me to. Is this the same thing?
Thanks.
Saf |
Edited by - Saf on 01/31/2006 05:46:59 |
|
|
|
Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Is it bereavement? That isnt rage is it?
