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Kate
USA
10 Posts |
 Posted - 01/19/2006 : 17:40:13
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Ok, after much lurking, I'm coming out of the woodwork with my problem.
I mildly sprained my ankle 3 months ago. The MRI was normal but the pain continues to be terrible and way out of proportion to the injury. I am pretty disabled -- I've been on crutches for 3 months. I can only take 10 steps before it gets excruciating. Having had a 6-year history with TMS it sounded like a reoccurance, and have been doing my homework for about two months.
The pain has not budged. In a consulation with the TMS doctor who originally helped me, I was asked to get a second opinion from an ankle doctor, just to rule out a secondary problem. The ankle doctor I saw thinks I have a leison that is causing some of the pain, but "localized regional pain syndrome" is the other(which is TMS, of course.)
I took this diagnosis to my TMS doctor and she agrees that there is probably a structural problem AND TMS.
Trouble is, the painful areas radiate into each other and I can't tell which pain is TMS and which isn't. None of it, however, is going away.
Questions:
1) How would you go about working on the TMS? I'm having to think psychologically AND physically, and it's wearing me out. I can keep journaling, but (aside from rehashing every issue over and over again) I have to do physical therapy for this other "problem" which is making things more painful.
2) How do you "challenge" or "ignore" the pain when your ankle/foot pain is too excruciating to walk on? For instance, my knee tendonitis (TMS) comes and goes, and I ignore it. I ignore my headaches and my wrist problems. But this gets my attention. I've had to quit my job and live on crutches, it's gotten my attention so well.
Any advice would be appreciated,
Kate
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polly
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 20:17:59
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Kate,
I am battling this. You're not alone.
I have arthritis that destroyed the joints in my legs. 8 mos. ago I had my right hip replaced because of avascular necrosis. 4 weeks ago I had to have the left one replaced. The same thing was happening.
I can tell you that my surgeon and therapists never saw such recovery. I credit the work I do with the TMS I also have.
When I do therapy for the surgery, I focus on the one thing. I'm strenghtening the muscles and healing from surgery. I'm not a cripple. I push myself and expect to heal fast and I do.
Last week the PA asked me how my back was. I said fine. He said that 30% of double hip replacements cause back problems. I told him that was the dumbest thing I ever heard. If I do get some back twinges, I ignore them. Then, I let the whole notion ignore me.
It's a juggling act that I believe is winnable. The big thing I have going for me is the lack of fear. I don't believe I'll make things worse by pushing myself. I believe I get stronger be expecting more from myself and I listen to doctors and therapists knowing that they don't know what I know.
Good luck,
Polly |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 20:38:21
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quote:
Originally posted by polly
...Last week the PA asked me how my back was. I said fine. He said that 30% of double hip replacements cause back problems. I told him that was the dumbest thing I ever heard...
Hi polly,
LOL. That's a sweet comback on the doc (PA) who is also brainwashed. Way to go!
Take care, -Stryder |
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salamander
85 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 22:24:06
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"I mindly sprained my ankle"....."but the pain continues to be terrible and way out of proportion to the injury"
That says to me this is TMS. I played soccer through high school and college and sprained both ankles 2 to 3 times each. The last time was my right ankle and the sprain was graded severe due to the laxity in my ankle ligiments, swelling ect... It took me over a month to get off the crutches and and go through rehab, but have never had a problem since. I've had "mild sprains" that heal in a week. If you believe you've had TMS before, then you are unfortunately likely to have it again (that is what has happened to me), convince yourself this is what it is and take Sarno's TMS cure steps. I'm no doctor, but a mild sprain should be healed in at least 3 weeks. As far as lesions go....well...if you go to enough doctors you will find a whole bunch of things wrong with you. LOL. Do you think the lesion was caused by the sprain? Obviously not.
Regards
Doug |
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salamander
85 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 22:31:24
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I forgot to mention....
You are treating this as if it is an injury after three months? In my opinion the sprain has healed! If you are treating this as an injury you are feeding into TMS. You are focusing on the injury, on the physical. Sarno would say that you need to stop rehab and focus on the mind.
Regards,
Doug
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gevorgyan
115 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 01:11:04
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salamander,
bingo!!!
thanks |
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Kate
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 10:43:23
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Sorry, I don't think I was clear about what I was saying.
I know TMS well-- we're enemies that go way back. When the pain was still there after the first week, I knew it was TMS, and worked on it for two months, journaling and whatnot. But this time it wasn't working. The pain got worse and worse, instead of better.
Out of frustration, I called my TMS doctor to ask if she knew why the TMS wasn't backing off. It was, in fact, my TMS doctor who suggested that might have a problem secondary to the TMS. If she hadn't TOLD me to go to a doctor, I wouldn't have gone. I hate doctors. The only ones I tend to trust are TMS doctors.
She, too, thought it was odd that the pain wasn't backing off, even though I knew it was psychologial, and just wanted me to do a final check to make sure nothing serious was going on, just as Sarno says to do.
In the past, my TMS has cleared up. I'm usually really good at getting rid of it. (I even made a terrible headache go away last night.)
This time it hasn't. If anything, I tend to be biased TOWARDS TMS, not against.
I'm just trying to decide if doing the TMS homework while waiting for the other "real" problem to clear up, is just complicating things.
Also, when it's TMS and I challenge the pain, it almost always gets better. I keep challenging this and it's terrible. It gets unbearable. |
Edited by - Kate on 01/20/2006 10:48:36 |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 11:02:46
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Hi Kate,
Could be there is a deep buried emotional issue that has never surfaced before thru your TMS work. This issue may be more hurtful than any previously uncovered, so your "standard operating procedure" for delaing with TMS is not bringing this issue to the surface.
Occasionally when I get a bout of TMS and am not able to banish it right away eventually a new "past issue" will pop out. Then I have to deal with that issue psychologically for my TMS to go away.
Take care, -Stryder |
Edited by - Stryder on 01/20/2006 11:04:34 |
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Kate
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 15:45:43
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Could be, Stryder. I don't know what it would be, but I will keep looking.
Thanks for the advice.
Kate
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2006 : 01:15:16
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Kate,
I'd like to echo what Stryder said about there perhaps being some deeper issue here which wants to come to the surface. Don't assume because you've always been successful with tackling TMS in the past that this isn’t TMS. If there is a structural problem as well, then why isn’t that healing? It seems to me that the TMS is stopping it from doing so and you need to tackle that first.
If you’re struggling to make progress on your own, could you ask your TMS doctor to recommend a psychotherapist?
Regarding doing exercise, i.e. trying to walk on your foot: as the pain is so unbearable, perhaps you could try the pain management approach. Trying to ignore/challenge the pain when it’s so unbearable isn’t practical. Instead, you could try building up gradually and systematically. This is an approach I found useful before I’d heard of TMS – and I think it’s still useful.
In your case, you say you can’t take more than 10 steps before it gets excruciating. In my pain management notes it says to take off one fifth, or 20%, from the amount you can manage without increasing your pain in order to establish your “Baseline”. It may be that 10 steps is an average, not a consistent figure, of course, but just pick a number of steps you feel comfortable with.
Then do this number of steps on a regular basis: at least 3 times a day – maybe once an hour if you can. Pick a frequency you feel comfortable with and that you know you’ll be able to maintain every day. Then do it every day. After a few days, add an another step. (If you’re doing it every hour, you could just add one step every other hour or something.) Keep at this level for a few days, then increase again.
The idea is to build up slowly and consistently. This approach helps to remove the fear associated with the pain so you have more confidence (and mental energy) to challenge it.
Of course, the most important is to tackle the psychological causes, but you can use this approach to challenging the physical in conjunction with tackling the psychological causes.
All the best with it,
Hilary N |
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Kate
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2006 : 12:02:18
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Interesting, Hillary.
That's good advice. What I've been trying to do lately is put more weight on the ankle consistently with the crutches instead of taking 10 terrible steps without crutches at all.
The pain is weird. There's localized sharp pain, and tons of diffuse pain. I've noticed that some of the diffuse pain goes away when I challenge the foot, which I think is TMS, but the sharp pain just gets worse and makes the areas around it terrible. That's where the doctor thinks something is pinched. I had a nerve block in this ankle 6 years ago which made most of the diffuse pain go away. That was clearly TMS. But the sharp pain gave me trouble for years.
I was thinking about what Stryder said about emotions and trauma. Unfortunately, the biggest emotional trauma in my life occurred as as result of the injury. I try not to think of "how bad it hurt" but how angry and miserable I was during that time.
When I hurt this ankle, I had just moved to Florida all by myself and I didn't know anyone. It was the night before Hurricane Wilma hit, so while everyone else was shuttering their windows, I was in the ER. I had no power for three weeks, and neither did anyone else in the county. I was 2 1/2 days away from my family and had no way to get food, or a way to contact anyone. I was finally forced to leave my job after 6 weeks because the pain was so terrible that I was incapable of working or living on my own. I desperately needed help, and couldn't get any.
Needless to day, I have a TON of anger from this time. I've been addressing it, but it has to do with the injury, and I know we aren't supposed to focus on that. But that's the biggest trauma I've ever had. Other than that, I've excavated everything I can.
Here's the weirdest thing: The minute I flew home to stay with my Mom, the pain went away in a week and a half, like magic. It was amazing. (Please note, I'd been working on emotions for about two weeks prior to this.) Then two weeks later, with no pain, I decided to try jogging. I only ran about 60 seconds before the pain returned. I tried to ignore it, knowing it was TMS, but over the next few days the pain got intolerable, and that's where I am now, 4 weeks later.
I ignored the pain, but it took me down anyway. I called my TMS doctor to ask her why this was happening. That's what made her wonder if I had problem secondary to the TMS. And I've been tunneling through emotions for 3 months. The podiatrist said this problem tends to get better, than worse, better than worse, which explains the pain, but I just don't know if I believe him.
My TMS doctor believes him, which freaks me out. She said that not EVERYTHING is TMS. (She attributed a kidney stone to TMS once, which landed her in the ER.)
Kate
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Edited by - Kate on 01/21/2006 12:04:54 |
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atg
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2006 : 17:24:38
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Kate,
It would be irresponsible for anyone on this board to tell you that you have TMS without diagnosing you. But don't be discouraged that it hasn't gone away or improved despite months of journaling, etc. After all, belief in the diagnosis is in most cases a necessary prerequisite to improving. And it sounds like everyone around you (doctors included) are only fueling your doubt.
If I understand you correctly, when you went home to be with your mom the pain went away completely. That sure sounds like TMS to me. Maybe with a pinched nerve or a lesion in the ankle, the pain gets better, then worse, then better, then worse, but would the pain ever disappear completely if it was structurally based? I think that would be a good question to ask the podiatrist.
To look at it from a psychological perspective, is it possible that you felt taken care of when you were with your mom, while in Florida you felt alone, and on some level longed for someone to be dependent on? That's just a shot in the dark. Obviously you have a lot more going on than one can gather from a few posts.
In terms of excavating everything you can, the unconscious is incredibly mysterious and hidden. I was in therapy for 7 years, am a therapist myself, and have a drawer full of journals, but am constantly in awe of all of the craziness that goes on in there; constant battles between the mind parent and residual child (Sarno's terms) etc. That's the thing about excavating everything we can. Some stuff is so deep and hidden that we can't even touch it. |
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Kate
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2006 : 18:18:56
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Alan,
That was a super-interesting post. Thank you for the encouragement on not giving up. As as matter of fact, thank ALL of you for your feedback.
"...but would the pain ever disappear completely if it was structurally based? I think that would be a good question to ask the podiatrist."
It certainly would. I will definitely ask him in a few weeks.
Funny, I didn't have any doubt it was TMS until my TMS doctor told me to get a second opinion to make sure I didn't have a rare complication from a sprain. So what did the podiatrist find? A rare complication. But when my TMS doctor had doubt about the TMS, (and she never has before) I had doubt too. That unnerves me. I never expected that. But she didn't want to be sued if there was a "real" problem.
"...is it possible that you felt taken care of when you were with your mom, while in Florida you felt alone, and on some level longed for someone to be dependent on?"
I've been exploring that actually. But since I'm being taken care of now, if that were unconsciously true, why would the pain come back?
I will keep working on this.
Thanks everyone.
Kate |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 18:06:16
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Kate,
I wonder if the following would be useful to you:
quote:
Also, Ken at Dr. Sarno's office, who finally reassured me that my unconscious was having a 'party' at my expense.
(from h2oskier25/Beth on
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1594)
Maybe your unconscious is having a last determined effort to get the upper hand? Maybe you need to get angry at it?
(Beth,
I’m glad you got over your relapse. I didn’t have time to say so in the pre-Christmas rush. I wonder how our Portuguese friend is doing? Paulo, do let us know if you’re reading this.)
Hilary N |
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Kate
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 14:41:09
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Oh, I'm beyond angry with my unconscious. I would rip it out and throw it in a trash compactor if I could. It knows I'm angry with it. I've yelled, threatened, and scolded my brain a lot. It never does much for me, but it seems to work for other people well.
My unconscious is probably having a party at my expense, but I don't know what to do other than keep journaling every day for at least an hour and to keep re-reading the books. I can only hope that the dedication to this every day for 1-2 hours will make the nasty unconscious realize that I'm on to it.
Kate |
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tdekany
6 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 20:05:37
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You are the one in charge of yourself - don't miss the point.
Let the anger out and move on
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2006 : 14:22:44
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Hi Kate,
I have the worst ankles in the world. I have sprained them both a million times. About three years ago, before I knew anything about TMS, I turned one of my ankles. It wasn't a bad injury but after a couple of days I could hardly walk on it.
At the time I was walking anywhere from 3 to 5 miles a day. I had to stop that daily activity. Several months went by and it was giving me hell. The x-rays showed nothing wrong. I had a suspicion it was all in my head.
Finally one day I got real mad and took some pain pills and went for a 5 mile walk. I thought that if it was a real injury I wouldn't be able to stand up the next day and if it was psychological there would be no increase in pain the next day. Well, the next day my ankle was better than the day before. Thats when I knew it was psychological.
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Kate
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 11:12:20
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UPDATE
I wanted to write the board and let you know how things are going.
Since I wrote you on March 24, things are a bit better. I am off the crutches and am able to move around the house. The pain varies wildly from day to day. It's VERY up and down and seems to have a mind of it's own. For instance, I may have four days of terrible pain where I can barely walk 20 steps, and then a day out of the blue where I can walk 100.
I just wanted to let you know what seems to be working, albeit agonizingly slowly, so some of you who have weird mysterious TMS pain that doesn't respond to the journaling or book reading or lectures might try these things...
1) I got the Mindbody workbook (Schecter) and am working through it every day. I don't go crazy on it, just spent 15-40 min a day.
2) This is in tandem with 160 mgs of Cymbalta per day (probably a placebo but I'm getting better so I don't care.)
3)Hypnosis -- It encourages my unconscious mind to forgive people in my past and works directly with TMS concepts. A licenced hypnotherapist made a tape for me to listen to right before I go to bed. She knows of Sarno and tailor-made a hypnosis tape for me using these ideas. (Only cost $60.)
4)Mindful awareness meditation (20 min in the morning and 20 min in the evening). If you can get the Daniel Goleman "The Art of Mediation" on CD, the third track guides you through paying attention to your thoughts.
5) Read the "Molecules of Emotion" by Candace Pert. (It's in Sarno's bibliography.)She's a molecular biologist. It is fascinating and helps reinforce to me consciously that there is "hard science" behind this.
I don't stick to this rigidly, and am rather sloppy about doing everything in one day. The hypnosis has helped tremendously in making me understand that this pain WILL and IS going away, which has been the biggest hurdle. I look at the Sarno books from time to time, but mostly try to relax about everything and tell myself it's all going to be okay. And wait. By the way, it's been 6 months since I hurt myself, so not all TMS goes away fast. I do not lie when I say you have to be REALLY patient.
Kate |
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Anyone want to tackle this?
