| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Carly
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
 Posted - 01/08/2006 : 15:45:47
|
Interesting article in todays Sunday Times on Anna Hemmings Britains leading female marathon canoeist. She spent 2 years battling chronic fatigue syndrome before making dramatic recovery to win both the European and World Championships last year. She recovered using reverse therapy and explains its premise is that chronic fatigue is a mind-body-environment imbalance. She also talks about journalling, non expression of emotion and the other big trigger being fear.
To read full article you can go to www.timesonline.co.uk Click on Sunday times January 8 - scroll down to magazine and then click on Anna Hemmings
Carly |
|
|
ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2006 : 00:34:24
|
I had a very hard time finding that article until I finally had to search, so here's the direct link:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-1962390,00.html
It sound like this "reverse therapy" is very similar to mind-body therapy. Here's a quote:
quote:
A big contributor to chronic fatigue is non-expression of emotion. The longer it went on, the more I suppressed what I felt. The other big trigger is fear, and I feared the symptoms. As an athlete, no matter how bad you feel, you go out to win. The therapist hit raw nerves. He'd say: "You must feel very isolated out there." I'd cry through every session. But it was only when I broke down in front of friends that I started to make progress. Letting everything go was really liberating. No one judged me or thought any the less of me. In fact, they made an effort to drag stuff out of me.
The therapy helped me realise that I constantly put pressure on myself, not just to be the perfect athlete but the perfect sister and daughter. When I began to unravel my anxieties I got better quite quickly. After three months I went for a 10-minute run and I felt completely exhilarated. The more I did, the more confidence I gained.
Ralph |
 |
|
|
gevorgyan
115 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2006 : 02:20:48
|
| Not exactly, because it is about the listening to the syndromes – quite opposite like in Sarno’s therapy where we should ignore them. Idea of listening to the syndromes is included in many psychology books. I had practiced it before I found Sarno. It was not successful in my case. Many times I "heard" a message coming from my body through the syndromes, but nothing was changing. Lots of them was more or less like : “rest a little” or “slow down”, but I have a work and two little children so this is almost impossible. According to dr Sarno we do not have to change anything in our life-for me this is more comfortable solution. |
|
|
|
Jim1999
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 22:15:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by gevorgyan
Not exactly, because it is about the listening to the syndromes – quite opposite like in Sarno’s therapy where we should ignore them. Idea of listening to the syndromes is included in many psychology books. I had practiced it before I found Sarno. It was not successful in my case. Many times I "heard" a message coming from my body through the syndromes, but nothing was changing. Lots of them was more or less like : “rest a little” or “slow down”, but I have a work and two little children so this is almost impossible. According to dr Sarno we do not have to change anything in our life-for me this is more comfortable solution.
I have to disagree with the way you are describing reverse therapy. It is not about listening to the pain to know when to rest. It is about listening to the pain to find out what is being repressed. For example, if the patient notices that the pain usually gets worse when talking to a certain person, the patient needs to think more about how that person is causing emotional issues for the patient. I believe Dr. Sarno mentions something similar.
Dr. Sarno's treatment and Reverse Therapy are not identical, but I think the similarities are much more significant than the differences.
Jim
P.S. Thanks for your postings, Carly and Ralph! It's good to see this getting some attention in the media. |
|
|
|
Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 06:08:40
|
Agree with Jim1999
And reverse therapy also stress the fact that you are not supposed to be afraid of the symptoms - and you shall not rest! Quite the opposite - you shall act.
I think Sarno and reverse therapy are very similar.
Kajsa |
|
|
|
robin
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 08:30:05
|
I want to thank you for posting that article's link. I read it and there is no difference in my mind between what she did and what Sarno suggests people need to do.
by the way, I went and posted on the nbc forum and my message never made it on the forum. Just thought I would mention that I tried to relay my success story.
|
|
|
|
n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 08:32:34
|
| sounds to much like behavior modifiction to me. I am sticking with Sarno. I could not walk and now I am running. |
|
|
|
ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
|
|
Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 14:52:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by PeterMcKay
sounds to much like behavior modifiction to me. I am sticking with Sarno. I could not walk and now I am running.
Oh dear.
What is Sarno - but behavior modification...?
And a very good one. I highly respect Sarno and he has helped me a lot.
But he is not a religion. And we do not have to chose betwen Sarno and Reverse therapy -like Jesus or Mohammed.
Sorry Peter but "your kind of reading Sarno" like reading the bible
( in a very old fashion way and with the purpose to always tell
THE ONLY TRUTH and nothing but the truth) - brings on some bad vibes
to me.
It is a bit inmature.
TMS is a very complex thing.
Kajsa
|
|
|
|
n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 19:08:42
|
Excuse me, but if anyone tells me that Sarno is teaching behavior modification then I say they have not read Sarno at all nor do they understand anything he is trying to convey. He is actually quite explicit that TMS treatment has nothing to do with behavior modification and one would have to prove to me where in his writings he says otherwise.
I have interest no in changing my behavior and I have no intention to change either. Thankfully, it is not necessary to do so in order to recover from TMS. That is what Sarno teaches and that is what I accept. It has brought me a long way as a result. |
|
|
|
Jim1999
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 23:06:03
|
Peter and Kajsa,
I think it would be helpful if you both define what you mean by behavior modification. I don't think that the two of you are using it the same way.
I think that both Reverse Therapy and Dr. Sarno's treatment involve a return to normal activities. They both involve giving up extra rest as a way to avoid pain. In either treatment, the patient may need to be more open about his/her emotions in front of others. If you want to call this behavior modification, OK. I do not think that any of this is behaviorial psychology in the traditional sense.
Jim |
|
|
|
jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 08:25:12
|
Peter, you help no one by repeating the same thing to anyone who happens to see this whole issue a bit differently than you. You almost always say "you havent read Sarno or you dont understand". I think YOU are the one who doesnt understand that people are different and not all our experiences or ideas on this will be the same. I am glad that you have it all figured out and feel better..:o)....some of us are still struggling.
Jill |
|
|
|
Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 11:53:47
|
"and one would have to prove to me where in his writings he says otherwise."
We are not talking about The Bible Peter - nor the
Quaran.
So I will not quote.
I have read Sarno a lot and healed from fibromyalgia.
But perhaps you are right Jim999 we interpretate the word behavior modification in different ways. I am frĺn Denmark and my english is not perfect at all.
But most of all I agree with you jilly_girl.
Kajsa |
|
|
|
n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 16:38:20
|
If readers want to understand how I define behavior modification they can read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_modification
This is not what Sarno teaches, although he does teach those with TMS to see the pain for what it really is. It is not necessary, however, to change anything about yourself in order to recover. INfact he writes in Healing Back Pain: "One of the more difficult concepts to grasp is the fact that one does not have to eliminate tension from one's life.
"People ask, "How do I change my personality and how do I stop generating anxiety and anger?"
"If these were the prerequisites for recovery my cure rate would be zero. It is not changing one's emotions; it is recognizing that they exist and that the brain is trying to keep one from being aware of their existence through the mechanism of the pain syndrome. That is the key point in understanding why the knowledge is the effective cure." (HBP page 92)
The use of language and definitions is very important when disucssing these things as they do matter.
As far as I am concerned all these other treatments are merely distractions and possible a hinderence to recovery. Dr. Sarno has given us most of what we need in his books and tapes. But TMS type personalities usually want more. They want to be masters of ths subject so they read way more than what is needed. I know, because I have done this myself.
I am not going to post any more on this topic as I don't want to aggravate people further, and sorry if I did. |
Edited by - n/a on 01/15/2006 16:20:49 |
|
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 17:37:43
|
quote:
...some of us are still struggling...
Struggling to recover from TMS? Or struggling to find alternate treatments?
Dr. Sarno's methods are clearly spelled out in his books. If you seek alternate "treatments" such as behavior modification, you are playing into TMS' hands.
Many people don't quite get this. Recovery from TMS requires commitment and focus. It's not about finding other ways to recover from pain. It's about diffusing the source of the pain and reconditioning your responses to it.
If you look for answers in behavior modification, religion, Zen philosophy ... it's pretty much the same as going for physical therapy or practicing specific exercises for your back. It's counterproductive to TMS treatment.
You don't have to believe this, but if you don't, then you are not really treating TMS consistently with Dr. Sarno's proven methods. |
|
|
|
jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 20:39:52
|
dave said:
If you look for answers in behavior modification, religion, Zen philosophy ... it's pretty much the same as going for physical therapy or practicing specific exercises for your back. It's counterproductive to TMS treatment.
You don't have to believe this, but if you don't, then you are not really treating TMS consistently with Dr. Sarno's proven methods.
Dave...freedom from pain is the main issue, not worshiping Dr. Sarno. You seem to be way off track in this. You dont want anyone to say anything helped them but Dr Sarno. That isnt the purpose of this forum. the purpose is PAIN RELIEF. We all respect Dr Sarno and his hard work or we wouldnt be here. I have great respect for him and what he has done for those of us suffering. But the bottom line is freedom from pain.
Jill |
|
|
|
Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2006 : 01:12:26
|
Had to respond here - my problem is insomnia - other health probs - muscle pain, joint twinges, vertigo - have been sorted using Sarno. Pain is not and never was much of a problem.
I would say it's brain modification that's needed for a cure and if that requires a little behaviour modification so be it. But Dave is right - I find it too easy to get distracted with different mindbody books and self help gurus though much of it is interesting stuff.
I'm onto Neuro Linguistic Programming by Joseph O'Connor if anyone else wants another interesting distraction!!
Anne |
|
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2006 : 08:06:46
|
quote:
Dave...freedom from pain is the main issue, not worshiping Dr. Sarno. You seem to be way off track in this. You dont want anyone to say anything helped them but Dr Sarno. That isnt the purpose of this forum. the purpose is PAIN RELIEF.
No Jill, you are way off track.
There is no worship here. The purpose of this forum is to discuss Dr. Sarno's TMS theory and closesly related topics. The purpose is not pain relief.
Feel free to seek out other Internet forums if you desire a wider scope of discussion. |
|
|
|
jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2006 : 20:25:11
|
the purpose is not pain relief???!!! What is Dr. Sarnos book about if not pain relief?
Jill |
|
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2006 : 10:55:57
|
You are broadening the scope of this site to include "pain relief" regardless of how we achieve that relief. That is not the focus of this site.
And if you think Dr. Sarno's book is only about "pain relief" then you owe it to yourself to read it again. Everyone who reads Dr. Sarno and truly understands it should gain new insight into their personalities. Those insights are an important part of the recovery process, and in my opinion, it goes beyond "pain relief." |
|
|
|
n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2006 : 12:33:15
|
| Dave is correct. On page 95 of Healing Back Pain, Dr. Sarno writes: "But I tell my patients, with considerable agitation, that I don't treat pain! That would be symptomatic treatment and it's poor medicine. I treat the disorder that is at the root cause of the pain." |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Interesting article uk reverse therapy
