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atg
USA
50 Posts |
 Posted - 12/26/2005 : 23:28:01
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Hi I was diagnosed with TMS by Dr. Schechter a couple months ago. Although I have journaled, etc. I have had no improvement. I have pain in my lower back whenever I sit. I stopped using the back support cushion 3 weeks ago, and I have to say, it hurts a lot more without it. It is hard for me to believe that it is just placebo alone.
Driving is very painful (especially w/o the cushion) and tomorrow I am going to drive up to san francisco (from L.A.) for the sole reason of countering the fear of back pain.
Anyway, after several days of positive thinking with no improvement, I tend to fall back to the "maybe it is a structural problem" mindset. Afterall, since the original spasm, there has been no wavering, it is not worse when I am stressed (or less painful when I am on vacation), it has not moved around, etc. So I have been given no direct evidence that it is tied to my emotions/self-esteem, etc. It seems to be an excercise in faith.
One thing I tend to go back to is that after getting an epidural injection, for 6-8 weeks I had about a 50% improvement. Dr. Schechter told me that most people with TMS do not improve w/ an epidural. I want to believe 100% that I have TMS, and that is one fact that bothers me. Have others on here had a reduction of pain after an epidural shot, despite TMS being the cause of the pain? Even Dr. Sarno says that "steroids will reduce or banish the symptoms of TMS temporarily in many patients." Have other TMS sufferers on this board had this experience?
Thanks,
Alan |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2005 : 09:41:47
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If you got the diagnosis a couple months ago, why did you continue to use the back support cushion?
If you truly "want to believe" then you need to follow the basic rules.
1. Repudiate the structural diagnosis.
2. Stop all physical treatments.
You didn't stop using the cushion, which means you always believed there is a structural explanation for the pain. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2005 : 10:00:53
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it is not worse when I am stressed
This is the conscious stress that you know about. Since Dr. Schechter has diagnosed you with TMS, then there is unconscious stress that you do NOT know about. Its the unconscious stress/anger/inner rage that is causing your pain.
after getting an epidural injection
Quite possible you got some relief from the placebo effect.
I want to believe 100% that I have TMS
You still have some doubts in the TMS diagnosis, and your brain is using this distraction to keep you in its grips.
Keep re-reading Dr. Sarno's books, either HBP or MBP. Start journaling. You need to un-learn and forget the physical symptoms and take the leap of faith that TMS is the cause. This will get you into the right mindset to accept the TMS diagnosis.
I'm not making any religous argument here, but as an example. People that believe in God on faith, sometimes blind faith without any 'proof'. They just know God is there for them. With TMS you have to do the same thing. The good news is that the TMS diagnosis works, and the proof is the people who have gotten better.
Yea, what Dave says too!
Take care, -Stryder |
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esher
11 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2005 : 12:53:19
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I had epidural shots in the past (a sequence of 4). They hurt like hell and did absolutely nothing. If you have had some relief, I congratulate you, but it may be a placebo effect (especially if it only lasted 6-8 weeks). Some other things I did gave me temporary relief, like acupuncture and massage, but of course the pain came back. I only started improving in noticeable ways when I started on the TMS course about 2 months ago. I also saw Dr. Schechter two weeks ago and he told me that a typical improvement pattern was not a straight line away from pain but rather a very oscillating path that trends away from pain but has lots of peaks and valleys. This has been very true for me; the peaks are almost intoxicating, and the valleys are filled with fear and despair (not to mention a temper as short as a gnat's hiccup). He also said that the most common barrier to success with the diagnosis (indeed, probably one of the symptoms of the disorder itself) is doubt. If you think about it, if your brain can convince you that there might be something structurally wrong, or even just make you wonder about it for a while, then it's succeeding in the distraction syndrome. I would be lying if I said I didn't have the same problem. The way I get around my doubt is by writing down the successes I've had so far and by listening to his tapes and reading the books. If you need some extra motivation, I suggest emailing some of the people Dr. Schechter gave you as reference. One of the best ways to get through the process I think is to hear how other people have succeeded; it really helps to validate the diagnosis. Another thing that's started working for me more and more as I practice it is demanding that my brain increase blood flow to my back. It's bizarre that it works, but I can actually feel a loosening of stiffness and decrease in burning pain if I focus my attention on an image of blood vessels in my back expanding, warmth flowing in, and repeating to myself "unrestricted blood flow... unrestricted blood flow". I've had some training in hypnosis, so it's possible that I have more willigness to accept self-hypnotic suggestion than other people might.
If you really are worried about the structural issues, then I suggest you talk to Dr. Schechter again. He is, after all, a trained MD, and if he hasn't already looked at X-rays and MRIs from you he may even suggest that you get some done for your peace of mind and so that he can verify that your degenerative changes really are just "normal abnormalities" like mine. If that's not enough, psychotherapy may be a good option. Don't give up! There is hope, and there are many resources you can use if you hit a snag.
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2005 : 15:07:04
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| For many people, including my Mom who has un-explained leg pain, epidural shots do nothing. If you have TMS these shots will not solve your problem. Study over and over and over and over and over again Dr. Sarno's psycology and treatment sections and, for heaven's sake, throw away those cushions... |
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Mary
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 09:02:28
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Hi,
I was diagnosed with disc bulge impring on sciatic nerve. MRI confirmed. I had two epidural injections a week apart in August, '05. Was told I would feel quick relief and "would get on with my life". Well, after first injection (which was very painful), I couldn't sit for 5 days. Developed terrible pain in the leg and foot/ankle. These "new" pains have remained in varying degrees at different times. Now after reading Dr. Sarno, I am convinced my problems are TMS for I seem to completely fit the profile. I say NO (for me) to injections: epidural steroid, facet syndrome or the other one which "kills" the nerve.
Since no medical treatments seems to fix anything and pain moves around, I think TMS is it!
Mary |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 12:06:10
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easy for you guys to simply say "just throw away the cushions.". I tried challenging the pain long before i'd read Dr Sarnos book. I went back to work even though it hurt me to sit. I was determined to work through it. I could do it, surely. Guess what? It didnt work. My pain increased till i had to quit the job. I know you guys dont like hearing this type of post, but this is reality for some of us. I am trying to work through all this but I will not pretend things are better than they are. All the neat theories dont work. And I've read the book so many times i have memorized it. I do believe in TMS and what Dr. Sarno is saying. I'm just saying its not as simple as you make it out to be.
Jill |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 13:37:43
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| Jill, I don't think anyone means to say that treating tms is simple. To the contrary, it's really tough. I think some of our posts might sound that way because our experiences eventually define our own little manner of dealing with it and we tend to condense our explainations. I think thru time,we tend to forget alot of the trial and error we endured. I,too,used the pillows and backbraces and inversion tables,etc. I got rid of everything after I read Sarno. I actually have forgot how difficult it was to sit for over a minute until I read your post. Pillows and braces are just crutches we use for not getting to the bottom of our feelings. I can't help but notice how angry your posts seem to be. Are you dealing with the cause of your true anger? Could that be the cause of your pain? If you feel the "neat theories" really don't work then how do you truly believe in TMS? |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 15:21:37
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susie, how do you tell if someones post is "angry"? i simply stated my situation. It just isnt as easy as figuring out what you are angry at and then the pain quietly goes away. If that was your experience I'm glad for you. It sure aint mine!
Jill |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 15:35:53
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@ETG
I am concerned when I read things about "Positive thinking"...I know it might just be semantics,but I get the impression from your post that you are looking for an 'out' ;a way to 'not qualify'
If that is so,than by all means have the epidurals,use the cushion etc,etc...not trying to be cruel.Everybody I have ever met thinks their pain is the worst that anyone has ever felt,and that No one is hearing them.
Journaling isn't 'what I did today by Baseball65'...it's an excursion into the deepest,darkest most uncomfortable pits of your soul..
If you haven't done the above,than it's no wonder your pains still there...it has you completely focused on the external like all the other people who have had no respite....they focus on workouts,positive thinking and challenging the pain without a true understanding of TMS,why it's there,and what to do....
..and of course,like anything that takes hard work,time and a discipline,everybody who doesn't get it right away assumes that all the people who did have some sort of strategic advantage.
-out
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. |
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Curiosity18
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 16:29:55
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jilly girl,
I can truly understand your frustration with this diagnosis/progress. Believe me, I've had my share of anger and tantrums directed at my symptoms over the years! Like you my symptoms have not simply gone away from just recognizing my sources of anger (as well as my unconscious reservoir of rage). But I need to tell you that I have also noticed a thread of hostility in your posts. It almost seems as though you're attempting to invalidate the existence of TMS! Maybe you aren't really convinced yet that TMS is your diagnosis. I really hope you're able to benefit from this forum, but your responses do come off to me as being non-receptive and at times, attacking.
Curiosity |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 16:37:39
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| Jill, nothing about this was easy for me. You sound pissed off in your return post. The reason I am trying to draw your attention to it is because I never felt angry. I knew that Sarno emphasizes anger even over stress,but I was sure my symptoms were just brought on by stress. It took me a long time to find my anger but,boy,it was sure there. My improvement was very slow but I think my total belief in Sarno really helped. I went to the hospital several times with panic attacks not knowing what was happening. I was sure I was dying. Really dying. I became terribly enraged at a nurse that told me it was a panic attack. This couldn't be psychological. I felt sooo sick. Then came the pain. I guess I am trying to tell you not to give up hope. I was really a total mess but after alot of time and work I feel in control. I only hope the same for you. |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 16:38:45
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curiosity if i didnt believe in TMS would i come to this forum? do you still have symptoms? what do you think helped you the most?
Jill |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 17:23:02
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| Jill, I get what I would call tinges of symptoms but not that often and not anything that really worries me. It's really more of a reminder to me that something is bothering me and as soon as I address it the symptom disipates. I mean usually in a matter of minutes. Writing things down is the most helpful to me. Initially I did it first thing every morning and then put it in the shredder kinda like a ritual. Now I only do it if I cannot make a symptom leave. I write in a stream of conscious with nothing in chronological order. Just however it comes out. If something makes me really angry I will ledger immediately,before I have any symptoms. I have found that this process actually seems to prevent symptoms. |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 21:14:34
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You sound pissed off in your return post.
I need to tell you that I have also noticed a thread of hostility in your posts. It almost seems as though you're attempting to invalidate the existence of TMS! Maybe you aren't really convinced yet that TMS is your diagnosis
you dont have TMS
you havent read the book correctly.
all of the above statements have been made to me in this forum. did you ever think perhaps this approach is why people do NOT believe in TMS? You come, ask questions, try to be as honest as you know how, and get sarcasm. Some of you were kind, some sarcastic. You cant come across like that if you want people to hear you on TMS. We are all here because we hurt. Think about it.
Jill |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 21:39:16
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quote:
Originally posted by jilly_girl
You sound pissed off in your return post.
I need to tell you that I have also noticed a thread of hostility in your posts. It almost seems as though you're attempting to invalidate the existence of TMS! Maybe you aren't really convinced yet that TMS is your diagnosis
you dont have TMS
you havent read the book correctly.
all of the above statements have been made to me in this forum. did you ever think perhaps this approach is why people do NOT believe in TMS? You come, ask questions, try to be as honest as you know how, and get sarcasm. Some of you were kind, some sarcastic. You cant come across like that if you want people to hear you on TMS. We are all here because we hurt. Think about it.
Jill
That Jill would be because going back to when you had Ohhh....maybe 10 or 12 posts??? you were attacking people and 'bringing them to account' for things..not asking questions or accepting answers as they were given,but the traditional chip-on-your-shoulder type of personality....you came in demanding answers and contradicting people like myself who have been recovered for a long time.I never responded to any of your inquiries for you always shoot the messenger.
If you noticed(which I doubt) I and some of the other old timers never responded to your angry rants.I noticed in the short time you've been here you've run your post count really,really high.
If I posted something you would repost an attack if I had not responded in your desired timeframe....an internet bully is what we call them on another forum.I only check this board periodically to see if anybody really needs help,and than one of the first things I ask them if I help them personally is to NOT frequent this forum as it has become largely populated by people who are stuck,people who are new and want to talk before they listen and people who don't really have TMS....they are just lonely and use TMS identification as a ruse to initiate talk about their personal problems
I wonder if you focused some of that energy into personal introspection if you would not be further down the road to recovery than you are...Perhaps you do not have TMS..Perhaps you are a 'Type A' personality...you certainly have the hostility portion; the other would be an absolute inability to crack the barrier into the emotional.I have known a few type A's before and they also get psychogenic related back problems,but it is only one of a myriad of symptoms,the other being mostly cardiac and circulatory in nature.
Well...you've hijacked another string...perhaps you should start one of your own and see who cares to answer.
I'll check back in a few weeks,and I'm sure you will have debunked,defrocked and exposed many other villains.
-MLrR
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 06:42:28
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baseballs post is a good reason why people would not accept the TMS diagnosis if they came to this forum. this comment of his:
Perhaps you are a 'Type A' personality...you certainly have the hostility portion; the other would be an absolute inability to crack the barrier into the emotional.I have known a few type A's before and they also get psychogenic related back problems,but it is only one of a myriad of symptoms,the other being mostly cardiac and circulatory in nature
so baseball, my post made you so angry you had to tell me i'd get heart problems? i dont think i'm the one with the hostility problem here.
Jill |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 06:43:14
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In my view one of the reasons we are goodists is that we suffer from low selfesteem - we help and flatter everyone else so that they (we think) admire and appreciate us, instead of putting ourselves first.
Having low self esteem makes you much touchier about criticism and more likely to imagine slights. I think that's why there are many touchy responses here - probably more than most messageboards.
I've certainly made a few ill judged replies but feel that i'm improving as I get to grip with TMS so I keep this in mind with other posters.
Or am I as bad as ever and Baseball's going to put me in my place??!!
Anne |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 06:53:46
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scotty, i wasnt talking to everyone here, just the ones who respond like baseball did. some have been very nice and I appreciate it. I am in a lot of pain, physically and emotionally, having just lost my mom. I've seen some improvement in my leg pain. I'm just looking for ideas and help here. thanks.
Jill |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 09:39:53
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Jill, if you were to read all of your messages on this forum from a completely impartial perspective, maybe you would get some idea of what people are talking about.
There is no denying the fact that your posts are often defensive, that you read negative emotion into messages where none was intended, and that you are very sensitive.
This is certainly understandable given what you are experiencing right now. However, instead of being so defensive and jumping down people's throats, you should take a deep breath and realize that the instinct to do just that is, in a way, a TMS equivalent. The conscious negativity and anger covers up deeper emotions that you are avoiding.
We've had many members who come here looking for sympathy and get upset when people respond matter of factly, without worrying about "being nice." This is not one of those forums where sufferers get together and exchange "woe is me" stories. This forum is more about acquiring the knowledge and confidence needed to beat TMS. It starts with being honest with yourself and acknowledging your true feelings.
Sometimes we just don't see ourselves... |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 10:05:23
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dave thats true. sometimes you dont see yourself. so let me express my emotions where you can understand them. baseball, you can piss off. so can you dave. i was never interested in "woe is me" stories or sympathy. what i would like is my leg and butt to quit hurting and I was looking for ideas to help. obviously neither one of you is in any shape to give it.
Jill |
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epidural injection
