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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
 Posted - 12/17/2005 : 11:20:58
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Many people often post here wondering when they will be "completely healed" or "pain free." In my opinion this mode of thinking is counterproductive.
First of all, if you set a goal, such as "I will be pain-free by Christmas," and the goal is not met (which is likely) it will just add to the frustration (fuel to the fires that cause TMS in the first place), and undermine the belief in the diagnosis.
Second of all, setting such goals implies that you have control over TMS, which you don't. In fact, it is necessary to accept that you don't have control. Desire to control everything in life is a common personality trait in people who are prone to TMS.
Treatment is a long-term process. You must take a long-term view. You must simply do the work, accept the ups and downs (which may include worsening of symptoms before it gets better) and believe that over time, the symptoms will steadily decrease until they are no longer a prominent factor in your life.
Does that mean you will one day be "pain free?" Maybe, maybe not. In my opinion that is not the goal. The goal is to be able to live your life without fear of the symptoms, without paying attention to the pain every waking moment, without doubt that maybe you do have a physical problem, etc.
I believe TMS-prone people will continue to have psychogenic symptoms throughout their lives. Over time those episodes will be fewer and far between, and of shorter duration. If your goal is to never experience TMS symptoms again, it is probably not attainable.
Treatment is a life-long process. It is a fundamental change in the way you think about the symptoms and react to them. There is no "cure." The goal is to take the power away from the symptoms. You can't control the symptoms, but you can strive to not allow the symptoms to control you.
Accept the diagnosis, and accept that it takes time for the symptoms to subside, and it is typically a gradual process. Do the work, become more aware of your emotional state. Take a long-term view. |
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Jena
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 11:51:58
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| there is no cure? hmm there are a lot of people on here that i have heard say that can control there symptoms it took awhile but they can now.. and i do believe that some people are cured and dont worry about it ever again just like sarno says...some peopl ehave been pain free or years and years and may never get a symptom again...u never know the mind is very powerful so i wouldnt go so far as to say there is no cure...at the end of mbp Sarno says when u are cured this is houw you feel for ex..no more fear and all that well the reason why people dont have a nymore fear mainly is because they arent getting it as much and have more confidence in the diagnosis ...i dont think you have to live with tms forever it is just a syndrome... and when you beat it...it may never return |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 13:05:10
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Thank you, Dave. Very nicely put.
Hilary N |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 16:14:42
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| Dave, you were able to cohesevely write what I was so crudely trying to say. I wholeheartedly believe what you have said as it has been my exact experience in dealing with tms. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 16:33:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Jena
there is no cure? hmm there are a lot of people on here that i have heard say that can control there symptoms it took awhile but they can now.. and i do believe that some people are cured and dont worry about it ever again just like sarno says...
Yes, there are some who are completely pain free. But even Dr. Sarno gets psychogenic symptoms from time to time. Do you expect to go through life without ever getting a tension headache or upset stomach due to some stressful situation?
What I'm saying is that the treatment starts with the proper mindset. That mindset is to take one day at a time and not worry about finding "the cure."
You say that people have learned to "control their symptoms." It is important to accept that you cannot control TMS. The symptoms disappear because you render them powerless by thwarting their purpose. You do not "control" them, you make them irrelevant.
The main point it, it takes time and focus. There is no magic pill. You don't wake up one day finally free of pain. At least, most people do not. For most people, it take a continued effort. And that effort is very worthwhile because you learn about yourself, about things that you have never realized, or never allowed yourself to accept.
Ignore the symptoms and face your psychological demons. Let the "cure" come on its own. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 16:39:14
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Hi Dave
Most of those points are well said, however I will respectfully disagree with the 'you're not in control' part.In the section on talking to your Brain Sarno says that it is imperative that we do regain a sense of control when we admonish our 'heads' for having to resort to these tactics..in fact I believe he verbatim says the strategy is to regain control.
If I thought I was out of control and a total victim,I probably would have passed on TMS theory like so many others that made no sense.
I as someone who has close to NO pain ever (first relapse in years last month) can confidently say I was glad to have a regained sense of control over my life and my symptoms ,because now having a plan of action I knew it was within my power(control) to participate in their banishment....just like I did again this time.
-Marc
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. |
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Curiosity18
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 21:39:29
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What is not controllable is our TMS personality. Our personalities are formed early on in life and are reinforced by our life experiences. I have been a psychologist for many years and I don't know any one who has actually changed the structure of their personality. Those of us with TMS personalities will have them for life. Part of who we are is to be vulnerable to somatization issues. But like any defense mechanism once we recognize it for what it is (a distraction) and work through the fear it no longer runs our lives. I have seen many clients improve their symptoms by doing this. I think one of the reasons that I continue to struggle with my own symptoms is because I tend to be overly analytical, and in a sense attempt to control my own personality (those darned wounded healers!)
Curiosity |
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Jena
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 22:56:31
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Well i completely agree with Baseball (as usual) and i truly think of your situation when i am in so much pain...because i know i can get better and iwll get better to...i cant wait till i do! Unfortunately i had a sciatica the last few days real bad which always is accompanied by muscle spasms ..... i am looking forward to my full recovery and even tho i understand tms i do understand and believe in tms i have to find out how to rid my symptoms when they start which is extremely HARD... i guess its a skill ill just have to learn with time... although sarno says on his dvd lecture that once in spasms or a lot of pain he prescribes pain killers ... which i have been taking ibuprofen almost everyday to take the edge off... it must be a wonderful feeling being able to control your symtpoms and im not going to give up till i can..
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 06:56:11
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Jena,
I could be wrong but I think you are misinterpreting what Dave is saying. Yes some people are able to completely overcome their main source of TMS pain and be "cured" but there are so many TMS equivalents that it might not be a realistic or better yet even a worthwhile goal to be completely free of all TMS pain all of the time.
When it comes down to it, I think we should measure TMS in relation to how it affects our life. Dave is pointing out that the most important thing is just getting back to a normal life where the symptoms (which may or may not show up from time to time) don't affect quality of life.
I don't know about you, but when it comes down to it I just want to live a healthy, happy life. At the end of the day, if I get a symptom now and then that I know is completely harmless, then I can live with that. And if I know it is completely harmless then it doesn't serve its purpose anyway and therefore isn't really TMS at that point.
If we all audited ourselves for every single TMS equivalent that Sarno mentions and I'm sure there are hundreds more, then we could spend our whole lives trying to rid ourselves of these harmless symptoms that rear their heads occasionally . But personally, I'd rather be doing something else that is more satisfying to me. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 09:18:50
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By "control" I was explicitly referring to the symptoms. Baseball, I agree that with recovery does come a sense of control, but in my opinion, it does not mean control over the symptoms, but rather control over the part of our unconscious responsible for generating those symptoms. Maybe this is just splitting hairs.
Jena, it is important to be confident that you will succeed, and you are. But it still seems you are looking for a magic bullet; a method to rid the pain whenever it starts; a skill you must learn. There is also a sense of impatience in your words. There is certainly some "skill" involved, such as learning how to truly ignore the pain and get back to physical activity despite the pain. However it is important just to do the work, and take it one day at a time, and not put a timetable on your recovery, or get frustrated when the symptoms don't vanish in a few weeks. The process for getting rid of TMS is slightly different for everybody. It may take you some time to get relief, to find the psychological sources of the pain.
On another note, you should go easy on Ibuprofen. It is not just a pain killer, but an anti-inflammatory, which is not necessary for relief from TMS symptoms. Too much Ibuprofen will damage your stomach. You may want to consider Tylenol if you need to take it often. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 10:40:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
By "control" I was explicitly referring to the symptoms. Baseball, I agree that with recovery does come a sense of control, but in my opinion, it does not mean control over the symptoms, but rather control over the part of our unconscious responsible for generating those symptoms. Maybe this is just splitting hairs.
Jena, it is important to be confident that you will succeed, and you are. But it still seems you are looking for a magic bullet; a method to rid the pain whenever it starts; a skill you must learn. There is also a sense of impatience in your words. There is certainly some "skill" involved, such as learning how to truly ignore the pain and get back to physical activity despite the pain. However it is important just to do the work, and take it one day at a time, and not put a timetable on your recovery, or get frustrated when the symptoms don't vanish in a few weeks. The process for getting rid of TMS is slightly different for everybody. It may take you some time to get relief, to find the psychological sources of the pain.
On another note, you should go easy on Ibuprofen. It is not just a pain killer, but an anti-inflammatory, which is not necessary for relief from TMS symptoms. Too much Ibuprofen will damage your stomach. You may want to consider Tylenol if you need to take it often.
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. |
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Jena
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 11:38:53
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Thank you Dave...and now i have a better understanding what you are saying... besides sciatica and low back spasms i also have a tms equivalent which is exzema which i have medication for that works if i keep using..its very itchy and irritating but i dont mind it whatso ever compared to the pain i get in my legs and buttocks... i would not mind if it came back in like many years and i got rid of it right away but for somer eason when it comes back it lasts many months... i know it is a process and i am in rush to get better and u are right... its weird because i am so young and i look at my friends and im like wow they have no idea how this feels and the fear i have and as of right now its disturbing my life... this forum has proved to me that u can be cure and it does def take time and people do have set backs but seem to get over quickly which i am still working on... last night it never fails as soon as i lay flat the pain starts its like i can time it and i was trying to think psychological what can be bothering me and its trying to distract me from something in my unconscience but concentrating on my mind didnt take the pain away unfortunately ... and thank u for the advice on the ibuprofin... i always make sure i eat before i take them because of the side effects on the stomach.. i am also going back to my neurologist tomorrow so she can perscribe me pain killers that work from the brain not the symptom ..something like that i saw someone post it on here once.. i need to break the pain cycle a little bit to break the fear factor but i will be thinking psychological and continue the program ..thank u for your reply it has really helped me understand dave, what u were talking about originally...
-jena |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 11:47:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Jena
... last night it never fails as soon as i lay flat the pain starts its like i can time it and i was trying to think psychological what can be bothering me and its trying to distract me from something in my unconscience but concentrating on my mind didnt take the pain away unfortunately ...
One of the most critical things to understand about TMS is conditioning. The pain starts when you lay flat because you expect it to start. It's a conditioned reflex. Just because the pain comes at that moment does not mean that there is some emotional connection. It is simply that your brain is seizing the opportunity to make you feel pain when you most expect it. The only way to break this cycle is by recognizing that it is a conditioned response and ignore the pain as best you can. It might help to "get mad at your brain" for playing that trick on you.
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 11:59:42
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DAMN !!!
I just wrote a looooonnnng reply and the forum just posted the quote I swiped!!
Anyways...in that context,I'd agree with Dave 100%. We don't/can't ever really control what goes on in our unconscious because....well...it's UNconscious.
I was merely alluding to the fact that once indoctrinated and one has achieved a degree of success it is actually an empowering feeling to not feel at the mercy of the medical system,the weather,circumstance...whatever.
We CAN control how diligently we pursue the 'cure' i.e. how much we really apply oursleves to the techniques and tools that Sarno has given us..and that we are not just being blown hither and thither with no ability to act.
...Now I understand what you meant.
-piggy
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. |
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Jena
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 12:06:59
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baseball,
but can you control the symptoms when they occur? from reading one of your older posts thats the conclusion i made from it you said something like you had symptoms this last month but quickly got them to erase? ... i may be wrong or maybe that was someone else.. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 12:30:19
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| Dave- really great post! One of the misconceptions that folks have from reading Sarno is that they have an expectation that they just have to read the books and work for a couple weeks and they are cured. To be sure this is true for some and for those that it is true wonderful. But for many it is not true and it takes a lot of work to really try an understand what the issues our in the unconscious. Certainly for me it has been the case. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 12:56:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Jena
baseball,
but can you control the symptoms when they occur? from reading one of your older posts thats the conclusion i made from it you said something like you had symptoms this last month but quickly got them to erase? ... i may be wrong or maybe that was someone else..
No,that was me,and yes,that is the point I'm making about 'control'.I feel like I can put a stop to any outbreak of pain.Sometimes immediately by just talking to it like :"BullShT...we're NOT going there!" and other times,like this last time I knew they were going away,just a bit more tenacious...took about a week-10 days.I never pay attention to the calendar.
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 13:26:32
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| Well the 3-5 week recovery that Sarno talks about is a myth for sure and frankly I thinks he exxagerates a bit on this point, even though I agree with the diagnosis. I have been at this for 9 months with not the slighest recovery. |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 13:34:02
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Great post, Dave. As always, thanks for keeping this forum up and running for us and happy holidays.
Laura
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 17:12:19
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quote:
baseball,
but can you control the symptoms when they occur? from reading one of your older posts thats the conclusion i made from it you said something like you had symptoms this last month but quickly got them to erase? ... i may be wrong or maybe that was someone
I'm not baseball, but I'll take a crack at it. After a half century of trying to beat my psyche into submission, I have given up. It just can't be done, at least by me. I think control is just not the right word when it comes to matter of the mind and body.
Having said that, I think as you go along with the program so to speak, you gradually build the skills and confidence to very effectively counter most TMS symptoms. In the past ten years for example, I've been successful in managing the backpain I've had, to the point where very nasty back spasms have simply disappeared in a relatively very short time... |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 21:34:53
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quote:
Originally posted by PeterMcKay
Well the 3-5 week recovery that Sarno talks about is a myth for sure and frankly I thinks he exxagerates a bit on this point, even though I agree with the diagnosis. I have been at this for 9 months with not the slighest recovery.
Peter- I thought you were seeing improvement by chalenging the TMS with heavy workout? It seemed like it from your previous post. |
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Treatment is a Process, not a Goal
