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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
 Posted - 11/10/2005 : 12:45:00
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Suz,
I don't know. It's like, I'm scared to leave because I moved to California with him 21 years ago and have never been on my own. He's a part of me and he always will be. I mean, we have two beautiful daughters together and created a life together. But for years (and I mean years) I have had zero attraction. Like, I look at him and think "God, I wish I felt attracted to you" but I don't. And the things he says just annoy me to no end. We seem to fight a lot - always have - and I think that just wears away and chips at a marriage till you start to feel empty inside. I'm reading this book "The Road Less Traveled" as recommended by Art. Something I just read that I found interesting was "A common and traditionally masculine marital problem is created by the husband who, once he is married, devotes all his energies to climbing mountains and none to tending to his marriage or base camp, expecting it to be there in perfect order whenever he chooses to return to it for rest and recreation without his assuming any responsibility for its maintenance. Sonner or later this capitalist approach to the problem fails and he returns to find his unattended base campe a shambles, his neglected wife having been hospitalized for a nervous breakdown, having run off with ANOTHER MAN, or in some other way renounced her job as camp caretaker." Wow! That says it all, doesn't it?
My husband was so engrossed in his job and making money and all the politics of his work place that he failed to notice I was alive for YEARS. I cried out for help but he never heard my cries. I begged for us to go to therapy but he wouldn't give it a try. He refused. He never paid me any compliments or noticed me, and all he wanted to talk about it seemed was his job. Add to that his pushy parents who invaded our privacy and created more stress, and his career change (with no pay check coming anymore) and you've got yourself one fine mess. I wouldn't know where to start to pick up the pieces. It's all one big yucky mess. And then there's the thing about me meeting someone else, looking to get my needs met elsewhere. I fell hard for that guy and now he's back with his own wife who he was separated from twice already. It's no wonder I can't function very well these days. I just sit and stare out the window and cry. I wish I could see a light at the end of the tunnel but I don't.
I'm sorry. You asked. There you have it. One big mess. But, I'm not too dizzy so that's one thing I am happy about. Now my TMS is rearing it's ugly head with stomach distress, anxiety, burning mouth (I've had this several times in the last year), and now the acne and hair thinning situation. When does the fun end????
Laura
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 14:40:04
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Hi Laura,
Boy, I can really relate on so many or your issues. I too, moved to FL with my Husband, and even though I became (reluctantly) chief breadwinner - as he refused to look for work for 8 out of the 14 years we were together - I feel somehow I "need" him and can't make it on my own financially. It makes no sense. Also, he is very moral and full of integrity, and we divorced w/o lawyers. So far so good. I am finally moving to a place of my own. He has made no plans yet. I worry for the (avian) children (two sweet birds) who will go with him.
He's so nice, so charming, so funny, so willing to please, sometimes I question my actions. But it wasn't just the no job thing. He views all people in a negative light, and just wants to hide in the cave (and be on the computer) all the time. I want a little more out of life, and am tired of doing things on my own.
I figure, no matter how compatible you are with the person, if you've been thinking about divorce, there's a serious problem.
Also, for me, when he decided therapy was "useless" (He got his degree in phsychology and therefore already knew everything!) that was a deal breaker for me. If you know your marriage is on the rocks, and you refuse therapy I think you're sending out a clear message.
I was at Yoga class yesterday, and the teacher always reads a quote at the end. I especially liked yesterday's:
give up all the other worlds
except the one to which you belong.
Sometimes it takes darkness and the sweet confinement of your aloneness to learn anything or anyone that does not bring you alive is too small for you.
Boy, writing to you has really been cathartic. Easy to see where MY pain comes from.
Best wishes,
Beth
Beth |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 14:46:18
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Laura,
How awful for you. Thank you for sharing the troubles of your marriage. I actually think your scenario is very similar to so many others - husbands think it is enough just to provide the income. They lose their connection and role in the family.
Question: Did you find your husband attractive when you married him? How did you meet him? Did you feel sparks back then?
The reason I ask this is because I am divorced - I married a man I was not really attracted to (was about to do the same thing - unbelievable). We had very little in common but I just wanted to run away from England and live in the States. It seemed like the thing to do at the time. Now I realize there wasn't enough between us to sustain a marriage
It seems to me that in order for this marriage to have any sort of chance, your husband needs to admit that he must change. Of course I am not a psychologist so please take my words with a grain of salt. If he started paying attention to you and listening to you. If the two of you started to go out on dates etc. What could he do that would make you give it a last shot? |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 15:35:34
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Beth,
Thank you for your well wishes and that wonderful quote. I appreciate it. Coincidentally, my husband has a psychology degree too.
Good luck to you in what you are going through as well.
Suz,
I met my husband in 1981. I was 21 years old. He was the first guy who really treated me right. I had always liked the men who didn't treat me well or who didn't like me as much as I liked them, OR, I went out with guys who were nuts about me who I couldn't care less about. With my husband, the minute I laid eyes on him the sparks flew. Our eyes met and fireworks went off. We were both working at a restaurant. He was a waiter from the day shift who came on the night shift. I had seen him before and found him very cute. He was unattainable (had a girlfriend for five years) and maybe that made me want him all the more. We became friends quickly and talked all the time. He is Jewish and I was raised Christian. His girlfriend was Jewish and his parents wanted him to eventually marry her. They were devastated when they broke up. She had found some other guy and they broke up. He kept telling me "I hope this isn't a rebound thing" but I knew it wasn't. I just somehow knew we were "meant" to be together.
We dated for a few years and then we got engaged, but I always felt like I was the one who had to push for things. His parents and sister were moving from Michigan (where we lived) to California and he asked me to move there along with all of them. We were going to start a life together. I insisted on having a ring and we were soon engaged. Once we got to California all hell broke loose. I worked for his aunt and uncle and hated it (and them). I became very turned off by his family. We lived with his parents and that sucked. He had promised me we would move to California, plan our wedding and live in a beautiful home in Laguna Beach. Instead, we were in Brentwood in an apartment with his parents with no wedding date or plan. I left him for almost a month but missed him so much I came back and said I wanted to make it work. We got our own place (an apartment in W. Hollywood) and started our life but we fought a lot. We fought quite a bit about religion, especially around Christmas when I wanted a tree and he didn't. After we were married (I converted) it became a huge issue. I hated him for all the grief he caused me over the freaking tree.
I just feel like we've fought so much over the years that it has chipped away and there is nothing left. I have no clue how to get back feelings but I would love nothing more than for that to happen. I just look at him and feel nothing (except sadness and pity - he keeps telling me he feels like a piece of crap).
I wish I had some answers here about what to do but I don't. I just keep staying in "limbo" as my husband says, not making a decision either way. I'm too scared.
You asked if my husband started paying attention would it help. Well, I don't know. I think change like that is only temporary and then people revert back to their old behavior. That's what I told the other man I was seeing, when he was contemplating going back to his crappy "miserable" (his words) marriage. I said "Your wife is trying to get you back and she's pulling out all the stops to get you. But people don't change, it's all a facade. They may change temporarily but will always revert back to their old behavior, all those annoying things that made you leave to begin with." He left twice and moved back twice. I was an idiot for not seeing that red flag. I was feeling so needy and desired passion so desperately that I ignored all of that and just went for it. Now I'm left with my heart ripped open and I'm trying to heal.
I feel so guilty and I cannot even look at my husband. I understand how he feels - I've done to him what was done to me. I keep being "distant" while I try and sort this out. But, if I really wanted it wouldn't I jump back in with open arms? He says he is willing to change and wants to prove that to me but I just don't see how that's possible. I don't know...I'm one confused person that's all I know.
Laura
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 18:07:19
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Well, I've been taking the supplements and also talked to my friend who is a hair stylist today about the hair thinning. She told me she went through the exact same thing when she was getting divorced. She said to take Biotin and Folic acid, that they were two very important nutrients. Then, she said "Your hair will come back, but it won't come back until you get rid of the situation and get your stress level under control." That's funny, really, considering today my husband was shreaking at the top of his lungs that I'm a "f---ing cheater" and that I "destroyed our marriage." I tried to remain calm as I told him "This marriage has not been good for about ten years. It takes two to destroy a marriage." Then, he started screaming at me again so I grabbed my keys and headed out to my car, at which point he followed me and jumped into the passenger side to yell some more. His last words were "Why don't you go see you f---ing boyfriend since you love him so much." I had to jump out of the car because I wasn't able to back out. I ran down the street, crying, and called my friend to come get me. I stayed away from the house all day and kept busy, looking at open houses (condos and townhomes). If I had any doubts before that I was doing the right thing I think that pretty much confirmed it. I mean, I know I've hurt him, I understand that, but to scream and get right in my face and foam at the mouth like that? Unbelievable. He just doesn't get how he played any role in the breaking down of our marriage.
So, I'll continue to take the vitamins but until I get things under control I think I'm just going to have thinned out hair. Of course, I also worry "What happens when I'm out on my own with a big mortgage payment and adding more stress?" I just don't know. Stress is always going to be there, I just need to find ways to handle it. I've been exercising a lot and this past week I meditated a couple of times. We'll see what happens...
Laura
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 09:40:20
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The latest - yesterday I'm by myself all day (husband took the kids to see his family). I spent the majority of the morning crying. Later in the day, I spoke with my parents. My mother starts telling me how I should try to make things work and not throw 20 years of marriage away. I was giving what she said some thought and then, shortly after hanging up with her, I started to exercise and became extremely dizzy (first time that's happened in weeks). I was so dizzy I thought I was having a stroke or something. I actually had to stop exercising. Anxiety, big time.
Still feeling the impact of the hair loss but I'm doing everything I can nutritionally.
Laura
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 17:21:17
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Hello Laura,
When I decided to divorce my first wife, my parents told me the same thing. They didn't care what I had been through. They took her side. I got no support from them what so ever. They were close friends with her for years after. But you know what, they never took my side on anything and I think that is the biggest reason I have TMS.
I still think you need a good lawyer. Soon to be exwives and exhusbands have been known to do unthinkable things.
Good luck!
Mike
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 22:02:02
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Dear Mike,
That really sucks that your parents did that. I don't think mine will go to that extreme. It's just, they are from the old school that believes you try everything ad nauseum before giving up (and even then, you don't give up). My feeling is, why be miserable? Do I want to wake up in ten more years and wonder what the heck happened to my life? No way.
I heard from the other guy today, again. I got a text message from him asking how I was doing and telling me he is thinking about me and misses me. Once I am out and on my own, if he decides to actually leave his wife for good (and I mean for good, divorce papers and everything) then maybe I'll give him another chance. My feelings are not going away for him, as much as I'd like them to. In the meantime, I'm just staying focused on me and what I need to do - file, find a place, generate some income, and be the best mother I can to my two kids. That's all I can do. Once I get my life in order, then I'll explore dating again.
With regards to the hair thing, besides all the crap I'm taking (vitamins, omega fatty acids, ground flax seeds) somebody told me today to take that Knox gelatin stuff. It makes hair and nails both grow. I'm going to get it tomorrow. It can't hurt. My hair just feels so weird.
Laura
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2005 : 12:42:07
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Hi everyone,
Tomorrow is "D" day. We file for divorce at 10:30 in the morning. I am scared to death. Yesterday, I was sitting at my computer looking at jobs online. All of a sudden, I felt this tremendous surge of anxiety and I started to cry. I began thinking about the fact that I am going to be going through three huge life changes - divorce, a new job (after not working in 15 years), and moving - all at once. I stood up to walk down the stairs and I fell, missing the last step and twisting my ankle around. I thought I broke it - the pain was unbearable. It turned out to be a bad sprain and is swelled up and black and blue.
My hair is continuing to remain thinned out. It really bothers me and I think about it a lot - it is definitely occupying my brain throughout the day. I am taking all the vitamins and omegas still but no improvement at all. My hair stylist friend told me it won't come back until I "resolve the situation and get the stress under control." Wow. I hope that happens soon
I have continued to talk to and see the other man. My feelings for him are pretty strong.
So, please think about me tomorrow morning. I'm very frightened but I think in the end it's the best choice and I'll be better off.
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.
Laura
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2005 : 13:03:07
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Laura
I divorced four yours ago. After a 20 year long marriage.
I wish you the best! And I think that you will benefit in the long run - despite
what you feel right now.
When it comes to work - I think that you will feel a big freedom when you are able to
support yourself - even if the job is not a “dream job”. And is a good think to work actually -
you get occupied and do not have the chance to monitor your feelings/symptoms all the time ( with that I
do not say that being a mom and staying at home is an easy job).
I have always felt bad about working - initial - but in the long run working outside the house is the thing that helped me the most to stay free from symptoms.
As for the “new man”. Nice if he makes you happy (but try to stay cool).
Noticed that some posts on this board was very negative about him. Like a “moral lecture” or something like that.
But we are not here to judge each other .
I also met a new man before I was divorced. Today we have a very solid and wonderful relation . We are
now planning to live together and look for a nice house.
So who can tell what’s right and what’s wrong.
Only you, Laura.
But the most important thing if of course that you learn to live a good life with yourself.
Kajsa
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 13:58:35
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Thank you, Kajsa. Your words were exactly what I needed to read today, after spending two hours talking divorce and signing legal forms. It has been extremely emotional to say the least. The worst part was when we got back home and had to sit down with our two daughters to tell them. Our oldest (16) just sat there, looking very upset and then her eyes filled up with big tears. Our youngest (13)just looked relieved. She knows we aren't meant to be together and has been saying for a long time that she wanted to see me with someone else ("Not dad").
It is encouraging to hear from someone who has been through this (20 years - just like me) and is doing better. A lot of people don't understand the situation with the other guy but I don't expect them to. I know what I feel in my heart and I'm going with it. My husband and I had such baggage - fighting like cats and dogs for over 10 years - it will be a relief to be away from that finally. He also understands that I cannot stay married to him when my feelings are so strong for someone else. Obviously, that is very painful for him and painful for me to say to him. I told him this morning that we have to trust ourselves that this is the best decision for us and that I believe we can both be happy (and happier) with someone else. In the meantime, I'm working on myself. A job will be a good thing and you are right - it does probably help to keep the brain occupied and not "thinking" so much about all our physical problems.
Kajsa, thank you again for your post. I needed to read it.
Laura
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elise8
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2005 : 09:12:18
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Wow Laura,
I have been reading all your posts and am just amazed at your strength. Even though you are depressed and feel guilty at times, give yourself credit for actually having the guts to face your husband and tell him how you feel. There is nothing worse than keeping anger and your true feelings inside you. Anger especially is such a negative, destructive emotion as all us TMS'ers know oh too well.
I think ten years of fighting and ill feelings towards your husband is sufficient for you to know if there is hope. I had a very similar situation as yours. I am still married but sometimes wish I was not. I go in and out. One day I love my husband dearly and the next day when he gets in one of his "moods", I want to divorce him. The thing that keeps me here is the fact that my husband is such a good person, and the fact that he stood by me when I became so ill two years ago. I could barely function and he stood my me. Every time I get really annoyed with him I think of how he stood by me in this horrible time and how hard he worked to make ends meet when I could not bring in any income. If I was alone I really do not know how I could have made it. Now I feel that I could just not make it on my own. I am too much of a chicken..Although my romantic feelings have really dwindled towards him, there still are such good qualities that I remain. I have seen what is on the "other side of the fence" and believe me it does not look too good. I know I can't change him after 25 years of marriage and so I just try to accept him as he is. I have often thought that if I was independtly wealthy would I leave him? And sometimes the answer is yes.. But then sometimes the answer is no. Boy I guess I am really a flip flopper...
I really do admire that fact that you actually had the guts to make the move, even though you will no doubt feel guilty about it for a while, that is normal... But I am sure that things will work out and you and your husband will at least remain friends and be civil to each other for the sake of your kids. They are really the ones most hurt by this right now. My parents divorced after 29 years of marriage and even though I was 20 years old it still affected me so deeply. Things were changed forever, especially hard were the holidays. It was like I had no real home to visit anymore.. I became so depressed about it.. Then when my parents each remarried, the stress was horrible. My mom would bad mouth my dad and vice versa. I hated it...
But I have seen many kids from divorced family do great as long as the mother and father remain civil to each other. So often one trys to plot against the other, especially when each starts dating again or gets remarried. You sound like you are pretty level headed and at least on your part I know you will be fine. You are a strong woman, I can tell. I feel for you right now but also in a way I am very envious of you...does that sound strange??
Anyway, good luck and God Bless!
Elise
Elise8 |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2005 : 11:13:48
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Dear Elise,
Thank you. You know, while I was reading your post I began to think about all the things my husband has done too. He sounds a lot like yours. In the past couple of months, while I've been trying to figure out what to do, I have thought a lot about all the good things my husband has done. That's why the decision was so difficult. Like yours, he has stood by me during my dizziness, my stomach problems, and all my other health issues. He stood by me when it came to problems I was having with my parents (ongoing) and he's always been the one person I could rely upon. I will miss that and that has been the thing that has kept me wondering if this is the right thing to do. I have stood by him as well, throughout all of his job misery, his own health issues (prostate and chest pain, etc. We were always there for one another. Also, inasmuch as they drive me crazy, I do love his family. But all of that, for me, was not enough to stay. The constant bickering just took it's toll on me, year after year, day after day. And then, meeting someone else and feeling those feelings - feeling alive, like I've never felt before, and knowing that you actually CAN have passion and communication and all of that. I want that so badly and have wanted it for so long, that once I got a taste of it I do believe there was no turning back.
Our oldest daughter is having such a difficult time processing all of this, but I know in time her wounds will heal. After we sat the kids down to talk to them, she left for the day and spent the night at her friend's house. We got a call at 6:00 this morning that she had been up all night with a headache. Obviously, she's taking it really hard. It was so painful for me having to tell them yesterday. My husband could not even speak he was crying so hard. I kept it together pretty good, until I saw the tears well up in her eyes and then I lost it too and started to cry. Our youngest just seems "relieved" - it's weird.
Now I have the task of trying to figure out where I am going to live and together we must start dividing up everything in our house. Very difficult. I found a very nice townhouse that I want, but my husband keeps telling me I cannot afford it. We will see, I guess.
I spoke to my naturopathic doc yesterday. He is so knowledgable when it comes to nutrition, etc. He told me B vitamins were really the thing I need right now for the hair thinning (makes sense, since those are the ones used up when we are under extreme stress). He said he has no doubt my hair is going to come back 100% okay and to just have faith. So, today I'm going to meditate, exercise, and just try to "chill." He is going to drop off some stuff for me to take that's loaded with the B vitamins.
Anyway, thank you for your post. And, I admire you too for sticking with your man. Wish I could have done the same, for the sake of my kids. Who knows what the future holds for me - I hope it will be good.
Laura
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Acne and hair thinning
