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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
 Posted - 09/28/2005 : 18:37:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Laura
So, last night my husband sits my poor 13 year old down and starts interrogating her as to why she feels the way she does. She tells him simply "You will never make Mom happy, all you do is make her upset and sad. I just think you should divorce already. Then maybe you can both meet someone who will make you happy. I'll still see you, Dad, as much as I do now. The only difference is, Mom won't have to fight with you all the time." Again, amazing.
Laura
P.S. Upon hearing this, I started feeling DIZZY!!!!
Laura- Just one more thought. The above incident probably hints at repressed anger towards your husband (that may be obvious). When you are in a safer place you may want to consider letting those emotions be revealed. You will need time to grieve this whether you get divorced or not.
I wonder if safety is an issue for you in this situation. Perhaps your unconscious has some smarts and has decided it is simply not safe enough to display the anger towards your husband. So it creates the TMS to distract. This thought hit me also when you mentioned that you were quiet while he was randing and raving and swearing at you. Maybe you were quiet for a good reason.
When you feel the dizziness come back let your mind focus in on the anger and see if you can feel it. It's possible that you may not need to do this as some distance may be the cure for the dizziness. |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2005 : 21:29:35
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Miehnesor,
Thank you for the suggestions. It makes sense.
I just got done listening to a whole lecture about how children get really messed up when their parents divorce. He is pulling out everything he can to keep me in the marriage. I heard about how we're going to have to sell the house, I will need to work (no more stay at home mom for me), etc., etc. I think my daughter has great insight, that's all I have to say.
Laura
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 02:23:32
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Hi Laura
So sorry to hear that you are having such a bad time. The argument that children get messed up when parents get divorced is not necessarily the whole story - I truly believe that I would not have become so messed up psychologically (and as a result of that physically) if my parents had divorced. They ended up hating one another with a silent vehemence. My father stayed with my ever-needy mother because of my brother and I. Living in that house with no love ever shown, believing that I did not deserve love, affected my life almost to the point that I felt I deserved nothing - that everything was my fault. That continued into adulthood - really it is only since finding out about TMS and beginning to research such things, that I started to get things straight in my head.
I'm not saying that children are not affected by divorce - of course they are, but I don't believe that it is inevitable. Anecdotally - I taught for 26 years and met many well adjusted girls and boys with divorced parents. It all depends on how it is handled.
I have read about the latest published study that advocates always staying together for the children's sake. It might be interesting to find out who commissioned that study. A group with an agenda, perhaps?
Take care and best wishes
Anne
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 07:48:46
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Thank you Anne. That seems to be the main card he is playing; that and "you'll lose this house that you love and will have to work." It's pathetic and weak. Yeah, I will miss this house if I have to leave it, but there is NOTHING much I'll miss about him. And, I think you are right. It's all how it's handled.
Laura |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 08:17:31
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-Sorry if I sound too 'ethereal'
I use the 100 year rule..or the 'deathbed' rule..whichever.In spite of my TMS,people(psychiatrists included) have always been astounded at my 'punkrock' take on life.
In 100 years,I'll be dead,you'll be dead,your Husband will be dead,and I assume most of our children.The house will be ashes,and your memory a footnote at best......read ecclesiastes.
On your deathbed,what will you regret? That you didn't spend more time at work? That you had a f-ed up life to work for a house?
I'm pretty sure the only time I'll regret is the time I wasted at work,the time I wasted worrying and the time I wasted by consciously engaging people who were wasting my time.
I read the Ram Dass's book journey of awakening,and the death bed reminiscince of a 90+ year old woman concurs with my speculations.
I,dirt poor and unknown, told a producer with 8 grammy's to F-off....and explained the 100 year rule to him when he threatened me with 'than you'll NeveR make it if you blow this deal' speech.I would not aquiesce to his 'commercial' approach that was going to make me 'rich'.He continues to live a fat life in the hills of LA,cheating on his wife ,with his drug addicted burn out friends and family....I am a dirt poor southerner with time and space....whose happier??
Where do I get to take the money?? OHH...but I do get to take my integrity???.....your soul is eternal...this bull**** your staring at will all go away...
----point
--serve
No volley?
out
Baseball65 |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 08:24:16
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Baseball (Marc),
Thank you, thank you, thank you! You always say it like it needs to be heard.
And now I'm going to take my daughter to school and have a nice morning...Life is too darn short for all this bulls---. You nailed it.
Laura
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 17:44:44
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What a fun day at the marriage counselor (NOT). Sitting there with my husband for an hour and half, while he told the counselor that he's perturbed at me for sitting on line and talking to all my "forum friends" who "don't even know me but I'm sure they are offering her advice." That really hit a nerve. My husband has talked to all sorts of people about this - his boss, people in his office, his best friend, his brother, all of whom really don't know me either and all of whom have offered him advice. He's spoken to two attorneys and I've talked to none. Yet, it's a crime for me to speak to my friends on the internet about this. I said "You have no idea. You are so negative you think only the worst. Nobody has told me what to do. People only offer insight, and it's good to talk to people who aren't biased."
Anyway, the one thing that became painfully clear is that he is NEVER GOING TO CHANGE and that I must remain strong and move forward. We have two options. We start divorce proceedings immediately or we stay in the same house and live together cordially, like roommates, while I figure out what type of job I'm going to do. I need to start earning some money and he feels it's too much for me to divorce, move into my own place, and then start a job. It would be too stressful (uh, do you think?). At least he had the kindness and decency to say that. Otherwise, there was a lot of mud slinging. I did notice about that about four or five times the counselor had to point things out to him, noticing how he doesn't listen to me. She'd say "You say you don't understand such and such, but did you hear what your wife just said? She said...Did you not hear that?" I think he even frustrates her with his narcissim.
Well, no dizziness today so far.
Laura
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 18:56:08
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Good for you Laura!!
Just one small point because I'm a hopeless cynic when it comes to narcissistic control freaks.
quote:
...I need to start earning some money and he feels it's too much for me to divorce, move into my own place, and then start a job. It would be too stressful (uh, do you think?). At least he had the kindness and decency to say that.
Chances are he said this because it's in his interest first and foremost. He figures that if he's got you home he still has a chance. Once you're gone he knows you're never coming back..
And no, I don't think it's too stressful to do all those things, for what it's worth.. |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 19:37:24
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| Laura, When I got divorced 6 years ago my X and I decided during the procedings that we ,too, would stay together. My attorney told me how assinine that was and we would not end up as friends and that really wouldn;t work. I told him we had been married for 29 years and it would never be a problem as my husband was a very kind and gentle person. About a week later my husband got really upset that I was leaving him and totally lost it. He actually frightened me. He was not at all himself. I left the house that night as I was really afraid to go to sleep. The next day I made him leave. That was 6 years ago and we do not speak. My advice to you is not to co-exist while awaiting your divorce. There is alot of stress and anger involved and I think it would be much safer to split up during negotiations. |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 19:45:46
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Thanks Art and Susie,
I will definitely listen to what you have said. I was leaning towards that decision anyway. Why prolong the inevitable, right? And, who knows. Maybe in the next week I'll have figured out what I'm going to do to make money and can get started asap.
Thanks you guys!
Laura
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 20:23:32
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I thought I'd add a note here....Lawyers SUCK.Period.
Every state has laws regarding divorce,assets and how they are divided.It's not unlike disabilty or unemployment.There is just a formula,they plug in numbers and there is the settlement.Any lawyer who tells you otherwise is a LIAR(most of them)...emotional surges and 'demands' are all comical to the Law..they Have NOTHING to do with what you will get.The Law spells it out crystal clear.
Lawyers LOVE emotional anger filled divorces,because it is the ONLY thing that can drive up their fees(wasted time).They encourage bitterness as Susie illuminated.Lawyers should advise on Law ONLY...if they start giving you tips on relationships,ending,starting or managing them GET ANOTHER LAWYER.I got really angry reading Susies post...not at Susie..at the Lawyer.I'd love to track him down alone in an alley and hurt him.....he's a punk.period.
Many times on this forum we have discussed stopyourdivorce.com and Homers website and online book.I thought it would be remiss if we did not at least mention it here,as it may or may not be relevant.If Lauras Husband read it,he might have a chance of reconciliation...unfortunately,he's doing everything to push her away possible...explaining why her anger is unjustified,threatening financial hardship,basically being a big baby(like all of us).....sounds like someone I'd love to be around....N'T
Internet friends might actually give better comfort,advice and companionship than a real live friend because A.We don't know each other and can be perfectly candid. B.We have to WRITE out all of our ideas,and a typographical epistomology has to be cohesive,logical and rational to be interpretted on the other end....no "ya' know,and like...uhhh..."..stammering and nonsequitirs and most important C.We have NOTHING to gain by siding one way or another.I've never met a single person from a forum EVER...I did meet a guy I play ball with on eBay,but that's a different story.
I too went through what Laura is going through recently.I wanted a divorce,was at a stalemate with my wife,and actually was already out of the house....broke,homeless and alone.
However,when I came on this forum to bitch about my wife,the info you guys gave me showed me my experience was typical.Getting divorced is also typical...it is much harder to work it out than to leave.However I had suffered through NONE of the same things as our protagonist,Laura...My discontent was based upon my wifes FAMILY not on my wife(other than her terror of facing them...cowardice??)..and I was mostly hurt because at the time of the alleged incident,I was more in Love with her than ever before......passion can turn sour quickly.
The most important thing to remember for you,me and all of us,is each of us makes and has to live with our own decisions...making them because 'so and so' told me is assinine,juvenile and irresponsible.Later,when it backfires,we can always blame our advisers.
I decided to work it out with my wife BECAUSE you guys showed me I was RighT...but being right wasn't making me feel better...it was making me feel like a jerk.I decided to stop being right,as it wasn't getting me anywhere,and to just move into the natural flow...wherever..didn't want to leave her,didn't want her back.My decision.
Of course,it led me back to her....and the hurt is still there...unaddressed and if I think about it,I can still work myself up into a fury.
There is no 'answer'..there's you,God(if you believe) and the dirt you,me and the rest are headed back to.
Don't rely on Lawyers,friends or anybody...we're all so afraid to have our own experience...just like when we recovered from TMS ,you cannot heal vicariously.
It all comes down to your own soul and the truth,,,,,and how much of it you can stand.If we ever got it all at once we would spontaneously combust...it's harsh enough in little spoonfuls.
---off my apple box
-piggy
Baseball65 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2005 : 08:22:33
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| Susie makes a lot of sense..That kind of situation can create explosive tension and anger. Let's face it, that controlling narcissist of a husband of yours could just blow at any time.. |
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redskater
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2005 : 08:56:11
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Laura, I just gotta say that I feel for you and know how hard of a position you are in. I can tell from reading your posts that you know what the right thing for you ultimately is. My advice is to get out as soon as possible. It's the only way you will get any perspective on this without your husband trying to guilt you into staying. If you decide to come back, so be it, but at least you will have made that decision on your own and it will also be so much easier to go through with the divorce if you are already on your own. You will feel so much better.
Cheers,
Gaye |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2005 : 10:18:00
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Thank you again everyone. I really appreciate the input from all of you. Yes, Marc is right...we all have to make our own decisions and nobody can do that for us. But the input we get here is invaluable. Like he said, it was this very forum that helped him see things more clearly in his own marriage and ultimately decide to stay. He made that decision on his OWN. The friends he's made here didn't do that for him. I, too, will need to make my own decisions here. But I respect what each and every one of you has to say and I truly think that the input is invaluable.
Susie makes a good point and I am considering and thinking about what she said. I just don't know what to do, but my husband just left for Las Vegas (for business) for the entire weekend so at least I have some peace and time to be with my own thoughts. My husband did say in therapy yesterday that both attorneys that he spoke with made it clear it was going to cost a bundle (like $30,000 or something crazy). One of those idiots actually had the nerve to say "So, I guess it will be my kid's college education instead of yours..." What a jerk.
I just spent six hours laying in bed staring at the ceiling. I literally did not sleep all night, and it is painful just to try to function today. There needs to be some resolution to this soon, I know.
Before my husband left today, he said he wanted to hug me goodbye. When he did, I just burst into tears. It was awful. I couldn't stop crying. It's times like that when I weaken and begin to think maybe I'm crazy. I know he really does love me, probably more than I knew. He told me he is still so attracted to me and has never lost that since the day he met me. God I wish I could have those same feelings for him, I really do. It would be so much easier. But the sad truth is, I don't. I love him and I feel bad for him, but I don't want to confuse those feelings with being "in love." To stay in a marriage that has no spark left would be cheating both myself and him. He deserves to be with someone who will love him that way.
I'm sorry, I think I'm just rambling out of lack of sleep and pure exhaustion. Thank you Art, Susie, Baseball, Gaye, and everyone else for your concern, your thoughts, and your input. The people on this forum help give me strength.
Laura
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2005 : 13:20:30
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Hi Laura,
I have no first hand experience with what you are going through but sincerely sympathize with your situation wish you all the best in working out a solution.
Having watched this thread unfold, my only thought is maybe have a trial separation to give you and your spouse some room to clear your heads and not be under the gun all the time. You don't need lawyers to do that. But it would mean your husband should move out for a while, like a month or so.
Speaking of lawyers, Marc is right in that they offer no help to your situation other than to empty your collective wallets.
But you should not assume that divorce means that _you_ have to move out. I may be mistkaen, but being the mom of 2 kids, you have some automatic rights, and like Marc says, the law is pretty clear.
Unless there has been some sort of abuse regarding your kids, the court 95% of the time awards the house to the mom and kids, and dad is sent packing. He will have to pay child support _and_ pay for the house you are accustomed to. Yes, you will likely have to get a job as well, but why do you think you husband has TWO laywers! He knows that he's on the hook big time here and that the law is on your side.
If the situation was a bit less volatile, you can even work out all the details without _any_ lawyers, but that means that you and your spouse have to collectively agree on the terms and who gets what.
Be careful, do not move out, that would indicate abandonment, you need to keep your side of the story on the side of you and your kids.
So you need to check into this a bit more to understand what the LAW (not the lawyers) are likely to award you. I think you are in a much more powerful position than you think. Check it out (yes, that may mean consulting legal advice, and if you can't afford one on your own dime, your husband is obligated to pay for your lawyer).
Take care, -Stryder |
Edited by - Stryder on 09/30/2005 13:27:35 |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2005 : 16:37:37
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Dear Stryder,
Thanks for your support. You know, a friend of mine told me about a year ago about the abandonment issue - how the mother should never leave the home and kids (even if you can't stand being in the house with your husband!!) because they consider it abandonment and you can lose custody. I remembered it because that was an important thing for me to remember. You see, even a year ago I was inquiring about all this stuff. I didn't just "wake up" one day and decide all this, as I think my husband wants to believe.
My husband doesn't have two lawyers; he's just consulted with two lawyers. One of them was a number the marriage counselor gave and the other someone in the office building where he works. Both told him the same thing "The father should never leave either, no matter what, or it's the same thing - abandonment." I think it's a crock myself, but who am I to argue with these idiots.
I haven't consulted any lawyers, mostly because we are in dire straits financially and I'm scared to death. I think we can end things amicably, I really do. This morning he left for Las Vegas for the weekend. He was invited to go on a business trip with some of the office staff and was not going to go, but I made it quite clear in the counseling session yesterday that I really wanted him to leave and be away for a few days and this would be the perfect opportunity.
This whole things really messing with my head. I go back and forth from "Let's just get the ball rolling and terminate the whole damn thing" to "Well, maybe he's right. I should find a job and start making some money and then we can start proceeding." Of course, this morning when he left and kept hugging me and telling me how much he still loves me, how attracted he is, and all that, I felt confused. I mean, I still don't have any feelings but maybe I could get feelings...That's why I originally thought a trial separation would be good. I thought it would give me a chance to have my own thoughs and be away from him for awhile, and perhaps miss him and want to find a way to rekindle things. This is all so scary and new for me.
My IBS is in full swing, I haven't slept for two nights (I thought the insomnia was gone - maybe it is and I just had two bad nights). But the dizziness has been all but gone.
Aahhh. I can breathe so much easier today knowing he is away and I can be alone with my thoughts (and my computer!)
Thanks everyone.
Laura
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2005 : 19:24:06
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| Laura, one more thing. Divorce was upsetting and a very sad experience. I would sit in a daze for hours and was a zombie much of the time. Once we seperated it was much easier. I had chosen a path. Of course, all of our relationships are different and I certainly wouldn't speak for anyone but myself but divorce turned out to be the greatest gift I ever gave myself. I left the marrage at a dead run and never looked back. That sounds pretty cold but I was DONE. The dread and talk and thought of divorce was much worse than the divorce itself. I often think that the fear causes more pain than the process. Sounds kinda like tms,doesn't it? Get some 10mg Ambien and get some sleep. Everything seems worse when you are extremely tired. Best of luck. Susie |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2005 : 20:28:34
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Dear Susie,
You know, I've been walking around in a daze all day long. And I have the most intense sadness that I have ever felt in my life. Really. It's bad. I just feel like how I would imagine one feels when someone close to you has died. I'm not coping well. I'm glad my husband is away but I'm really having a difficult time here. Unfortunately, I made a committment to a friend to come to a home party she is doing for a skin care line. She's been pushing me to come because she wants to sign on as a consultant and thinks it would be good money for both of us. I'm feeling like starting anything right now is the last thing I want to do. I can barely cope just doing what I need to do (i.e. running kids around and keeping up the house).
Your post made me feel better, like I'm not alone. I'm sure there are millions of people out there going through similar experiences. I will get through it, I know, but it sure is painful.
Laura
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2005 : 16:06:06
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Hi everyone,
Here's the update. My husband has been in Las Vegas all weekend. I've been alone at home with the kids. I did not miss him one bit, not at all. He called me several times but I didn't have much to say. It seems that now that we are on "friendly" terms, he is getting more and more hope that we can resolve things. That's the problem. Unless I'm a total witch, he thinks there is hope. Of course, he called me yesterday and said "I miss you" to which I didn't even respond. Then he said "I hope it's okay I said that" and again I said nothing. I don't know what to say. And on Friday, I'm supposed to have reached a decision about what I want.
Today, he called to say he had left and would be home in four hours. Then he starts asking me how my weekend was, what I did last night and with whom (went out with a few friends), etc. I was telling him that I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do to make money and that my friend thinks I should pursue my photography more. To this he responded "Yeah, and we could build you a studio in the house or something and you could bring clients in to photograph them." I didn't say anything again, and then he added "or wherever..." This is really difficult.
Last night when we were out I was crying and my friends had to console me. Some man who is a friend of one of my friends was telling me last night that when he divorced his wife he was the one who wanted out and he was the one, like me, who asked for the divorce. He told me that he used to cry and cry all the time, for weeks, but that he just didn't love his wife anymore the way he should have loved her. I feel the same way. It's good to know it's normal to feel that way, as a couple others have mentioned this to me.
As far as the dizziness, it's just not there. I can honestly say it's gone. Let's see what happens...
Laura
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2005 : 10:51:05
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I am now days away from filing for divorce and it is amazing how it's taken it's toll on my body. The dizziness has been gone pretty much for weeks now, since I made my decision. However, the stomach pain just doesn't stop. Every time I start thinking about what I am doing and how things are all going to change, my stomach starts hurting like crazy. Last night it was so bad I probably slept about two hours all night - I was just writhing in the bed holding my stomach. I know for a fact it is pure stress. Tomorrow is our last appointment with the marriage counselor and I will be making it clear that I am filing for divorce. We will be putting our house up for sale and moving on. It is so scary, yet I am trying to look forward with anticipation to the future. Please keep me in your thoughts everyone.
Laura
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Divorce, stomach pain and dizziness
