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art
1903 Posts |
 Posted - 09/12/2005 : 18:26:12
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After a wonderful summer of besting one TMS symptom after another, I think I've finally met my match. I'd been increasing my running mileage in addition to some pretty serious biking, and I was hit with a very painful bout of illiotibial band syndrome half way through my run today. I tried to run through it but it got progressively worse and I finally had to stop and walk home.
I've run through every single ache and pain I've had this summer, including achilles pain, and knee pain, and foot pain. The difference is that this is much more painful and I'm sensing that its genuine.
Have any of my fellow TMS runners out there had any experience with this? |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 19:10:46
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Ah, the dreaded ITB. I didn't even make the connection that it could be part of TMS until I spent a couple of days seeing patients with Sarno when I was a resident and he assured me that it was. That being said, I have found it a difficult symptom to kick at times. Once it decides to appear, I can barely even walk for a day or two, especially down stairs. Unfortunately, I have the same experience as you--when it starts, I can't run through it, which is frustrating.
However, I haven't found any physical pattern to when it appears, and I can at this point usually avoid it with the usual mental exercises before my run. That is a great improvement to a time when I had to stop running for months, because it was constantly there. Remember, the pain is genuine, but it is still TMS! |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 05:55:12
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Thanks doc, that's encouraging. Hard to accept that that knifelike pain is TMS thus benign, but at least that gives me some hope. I'll be one hundred percent honest. I wish I hadn't heard the claim that withdrawal symptoms are psychosomatic too...Just that much harder for me to make the necessary leap
I've had this off and on over the years, always when I've increased mileage. which of course from a TMS point of view is merely setting up some sort of convincing context.
I'm tempted to just take a huge leap of faith and keep running. Knife like pain or not, because it would be such a great test of things for me, the strength of my own beliefs as well as TMS theory..
I'm interested...what are the mental exercises you do before a run? Just a basic run through of your tendency toward TMS?
Just to add, rightly or wrongly I've used as my persona; litmus test for TMS whether or not 1: I can run through it 2: whether or not the pain gets worse, or improves, or stays the same 3: whether it eventually disappears..
This was the first time an "injury" or the pain thereby, got worse with additional running.
This is going to be a tough one. |
Edited by - art on 09/13/2005 06:08:29 |
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leegold
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 06:42:10
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dr schecter interviews only one patient on his 3-cd set, and its a woman whose tms was manifest as illiotibial band syndrome
Lee
"A tranquil heart is life to the body, but passion is rottenness to the bones" |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 17:30:21
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As I start running, I go through anything in my mind that could potentially be bothering me emotionally (just a brief run through). I prep myself for the fact that I will NOT be experiencing ITB symptoms during that run, because I know there's nothing physically wrong with my knees, and I won't let my brain pull one over on me that way! I also make sure I have a smile on my face when I occasionally think to myself: "Feel no pain!"
I think attitude and positivity plays a big part of staying in control of TMS. And even if you're not positive, act like you are! That means to smile (studies have shown that just the act of smiling (even if you're not particularly happy) causes positive feelings, just as frowning can do the opposite. The best is when I've been running a while and realize that I haven't even thought about the possibility of ITB--that's when I know I'm ok!
I have to say, though, I simply cannot run through the ITB symptoms once they start. I just give it up for that run and try to figure out what's bothering me... Still TMS, though!
As I've posted, I'm a skeptic about the role of TMS in withdrawal symptoms. Individuals have said that here, but doesn't mean you have to believe/apply that to yourself to cure yourself from TMS. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 16:44:55
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quote:
dr schecter interviews only one patient on his 3-cd set, and its a woman whose tms was manifest as illiotibial band syndrome
Is that right Lee? Happy ending I assume? How much is the set?
Many thanks,
A. |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 18:11:41
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Dr. Schechter's website is http://www.mindbodymedicine.com/
And yes, it was a happy ending, but she had to go through all the traditional treatemnt before finding out about TMS. They go into great detail of what she went through on the CD. The Deluxe TMS program (three CD's, DVD, article, and workbook) is available for $80. This also includes a recording Dr. Schechter and psychothrapist Don Dubin did together 5 years ago. Mr. Dubin has learned a lot about TMS since then, especially when he had a recurrence of symptoms since the recording which he had to work through and came out successful. Not Mr. Dubin does phone consultations with anyone in the world. The cost is $125 per session. He can be reached at:
323 651 4390.
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Edited by - n/a on 09/15/2005 07:15:13 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 05:45:10
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| Thanks very much for the information, Peter. Very much appreciated indeed. |
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gioux
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2005 : 19:32:30
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Just to add a bit of information to the ITB thread... I dealt with basically constant ITB pain for 10 years. I was diagnosed with ITB syndrome/tendonitis and I went through years of PT and other treatments, even surgery. It was not until I learned about and then accepted TMS that I was able to finally deal with the ITB pain, which spread to both knees. Though I admit I have never been 100% rid of the pain for long periods of time, I did indeed get back on my beloved bike and have been biking for 3+ years now and have been much happier for it.
That's the good news and I think you will indeed get over hte ITB issues once you accept the TMS diagnosis. I had to do that. I went cold turkey with PT and other things I was doing and slowly began to hike, bike, and even run again.
The bad news is that I beleive I may be currently dealing with another manifestation of TMS, in my knee, but this time with pateller (SP?) tendonitis. It is quite painful and I have been off my bike going on 9 weeks. Has anyone experienced TMS pain here before? I did a lot of climnbing and major mileage increases, so I am quite confused about the diagnosis. Any help would be great. FYI, I am also dealing with shoulder pain (diagnosis: tendonitis) if that helps at all.
Thanks |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2005 : 20:10:18
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Hi Gioux,
It's all of a piece really. I don't think you can go far wrong by assuming all your tendonitis issues are, quite likely, TMS.
I struggle with the same issues, including patellar tendinits, following increased mileage. But I pretty much just keep taking that same leap of faith..So far it's worked splendidly.
Bear in mind the human body's incredible healing powers. The oft quoted example...snap a human thigh bone and in six weeks it's healed. 9 weeks for knee tendinitis seems very suspicious.
I vote TMS.
Incidentally, as to the itb, did you run through the pain, or was the pain gone when you started back in?
Many thanks,
A.
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Tunza
New Zealand
198 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2005 : 02:04:33
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I found the following reference to Sarno when I was exploring multiple-tendonitis on the web (so far I've had shoulder, wrist, elbow, achilles, tmj etc hence the interest). It doesn't seem like an "alternative" web site so I was pleased to see the reference there:
"Psychotherapy: Fibromyalgia and all chronic tendonitis-bursitis disorders "tension-myalgia syndromes" may be conditions in which patients substitute physical pain for emotional pain as advocated in the book by John Sarno, MD, The Mind Body Prescription: Healing the Body, Healing the Pain".
(http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic2934.htm)
Tunza |
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gioux
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2005 : 12:48:45
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Art - to answer your question about running through the pain, the short answer is yes, I was active through the pain and it took quite some time and confidence building to deal with 10 years of constant issues. I started with hiking and some biking and slowly moved to more and biking, some running, did some triathlons, and eventually 100+ mile rides more recently. It took a while to get all the way there, but I may have been dealing with ITB for a longer time (and years of structurally based treatment), so maybe it won't be so long or enduring for you.
But yes, I worked through it, it did not just go away. It was a challenging yet amazing period of seeing what I could do. Of all things, I need to look to that period as I currently deal with my other knee tendonitis issues (and shoulder issues too). Having TMS and being an athlete can be one of the most confusing things. People do get injured and they heel and get back to it. I work out with folks that are always getting hurt (who knows if they have TMS) so when I get pain it is very confusing and more so since my current bout with knee and shoulder pain is lasting so long. But thank you for your input on my knee issues - it is very helpful.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2005 : 05:46:28
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Took a 7 miler yesterday and not an ITB symptom in sight. So far so good.
Gioux, I am in the exact same quandary as you are. I work out evry day of the week basically, doing one thing or another, and athletes get hurt. It can be very difficult. The last thing one wants to do is take an ordinary over-use injury and turn it into something truly debilitating..To complicate things even more,I'm in my fifties now, a time of life when overuse injuries become pretty standard.
However, I must say that i have yet to go wrong with assuming TMS. The hardest one was a painful case of metatarsalgia which just made perfect sense that I would get that, but over time I dcided to take that leap of faith and I haven't looked back since, until this ITB thing..
Again, nine weeks too long usually. Think TMS.
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Edited by - art on 09/20/2005 05:57:15 |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2005 : 09:44:13
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Hi--I was reading your ITB threads. I have been back running after some major surgery. Been about 2 months. Was running 45-55 minutes 4 times a week. Last Sunday I ran 10 miles. At the end of the run I felt the dreaded side of the knee pain. I didn't do anything yesterday but when I ran this morning - boom, the ITB pain was there.
As you guys stated - overuse injury or TMS? That is the hardest thing to discern. I too am in my 50s. All I do now is berate myself for running 10 miles -- the entire world is saying I increaesd to much. I can't stop yelling at myself for doing such a stupid thing. Now I have ITB.
What to do now?
Thanks |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2005 : 09:54:04
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quote:
Originally posted by hsb
...All I do now is berate myself for running 10 miles -- the entire world is saying I increaesd to much. I can't stop yelling at myself for doing such a stupid thing. Now I have ITB.
If it is TMS, with this attitude you are playing right into its hands.
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2005 : 10:14:55
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| but i can trace the pain to an incident, running 10 miles before i was ready? is that a coincidence. i think that is tough for athletes to figure out. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2005 : 14:08:03
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quote:
Originally posted by hsb
but i can trace the pain to an incident, running 10 miles before i was ready? is that a coincidence. i think that is tough for athletes to figure out.
Of course. Re-read Dr. Sarno's book. TMS seizes the opportunities you give it to make you think the problem is physical. |
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gioux
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2005 : 23:19:09
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I agree that TMS does indeed seize such opportunites as Dave says. I have been dealing with some newer knee pain (which, by the way is going away since re-accepting the TMS diagnosis), and I had convinced myself that the pain was due to a serious increase in hill training and a stupid last minute change in bike setup (which is generally considered a bad idea). I am a cyclist, by the way.
A huge hill ride was the so-called crowning blow and I was then hobbled for 11 weeks with knee pain. I think this is a very difficult thing to deal with as an athlete, espcially when you look to athlete friends for "help" and they affirm what you are thinking - that you did something "stupid." It's hard to accept - it certainly has been for me, but you have to accept this diagnosis of TMS fully and I really do believe you will get better. This thread with Art has been very helpful for me - I think one of the reasons I have been improving. Also, I have now read Monte Heuftle's book from runningpain.com which I think is very helpful - I think it would be even more useful for you, as a runner. I appreciate his athlete's perspective, which Sarno does incorporate all that much in his writing.
Good luck to everyone! I know how bad ITB pain can be. I had it everyday for 10+ years! |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 05:56:26
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thanks gioux
i am glad you understand - being athlete and dealing with TMS is extremely difficult. We tax our bodies and if you do too much, something might happen. It is very confusing to figure out if my ITB is a result of increasing to 10 miles or TMS. I have not run since the 10 miler on Sunday.
I agree also my friends are all runners. I have read Dr. Sopher's book and Monte's book and it is hard for me to accept the fact that running pains are all TMS. I have not met one runner has never been hurt. I think the saying is "i run therefore i hurt".
I am not sure how to handle this ITB stuff right now.
You said you suffered for 10+ years= that is pretty frightening.
How does reconcile running is tough on the body and TMS?
Any runners with suggestions?
Thanks |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 07:25:50
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quote:
Originally posted by hsb
...We tax our bodies and if you do too much, something might happen...it is hard for me to accept the fact that running pains are all TMS. I have not met one runner has never been hurt...
And I have met very few people that do not have at least one form of psychogenic symptoms, be it headache or heartburn or back pain or foot pain...
Do you realize that the human body was built for running? That our bodies evolved in this way precisely to support running at faster speeds and greater distances?
I'm certainly not saying that running does not cause some aches and pains. But there is a difference between "normal" aches and pains and injury.
The TMS theory will not do you any good until you get to the point of acceptance. If you have these doubts, as you indicated above, then no amount of advice will help. If you cannot repudiate structural reasons for your pain, the TMS will continue regardless of any other steps you take to treat it. |
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gioux
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2005 : 14:27:51
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hsb,
To clarify, I had 10+ years of ITB pain UNTIL I accepted the TMS diagnosis. Yes, of course people get injured, but you really need to ask yourself why you are hurting now and whether it really makes sense from a strucutral perspective.
This is much easier said than done, I understand, and I am dealing with it now. But I will tell you that I was petrified of getting back into it but the only thing that helped me get better was accepting the TMS diagnosis and getting back into it. That is what I am doing now with my knee pain and it is hard, really hard. And guess what,I rode without any major repurcusions, and then my back started hurting - TMS all the way! |
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illiotibial band syndrome
