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Suz
559 Posts |
 Posted - 08/14/2005 : 10:47:23
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Hey all,
I am sorry for bringing this up again but I just saw my ex-fiance after church and it was terrible painful. I agreed to have a quick talk with him over an iced-tea (record breaking temps here in Connecticut/New York).For those of you who know my story, he has gone out and has two job offers of sales jobs with a base as well as commissiont. He is clearly a changed man and wants to do the right thing. Like me, he is a devout catholic and is now going to mass every day and has talked to a lot of devout people. He has realized now that he does not want me to work at all and really wants me to bring up children at home. This is a complete turn around from 3 weeks ago. He apologized numerous times for expecting me to be the financial provider. I know him well and I see he has had a real awakening and has had the humility to admit his wrongs.
But....something inside of me (my gut I guess) is sitting in front of him and feels numb. I feel a terrible, terrible sadness as everything he is saying is what I want in a husband and life mate. But I don't seem to feel any attraction towards him at all. It is very very strange. It would be so much easier to get re-engaged again and to go forward with all these wonderful changes. I don't feel passion towards him. I don't feel attracted to him. It is scary to admit this which is why I am writing this now. My pain has left me mostly - at least in the upper back area. I still get a few twinges in the sciatic which is a little new.
How can I not want to be with a man who will give me everything i want? He noticed that I was really negative and he said - "look - if you don't want this at all, please tell me and I will move on"
I couldn't do it as it was just too awful. I wasn't ready to let go. I don't really know why. Maybe because I have know him for 3 years - been through so much with him. We have done everything together and it is just too sad for this not to work.
Last night, I bumped into a guy in the supermarket who I see in the gym. I find him really attractive and nice and I was quite excited to talk to him. We chatted for about 15 minutes (our normal exchange is just hello). I came home feeling quite uplifted. Then I wondered how I could feel this if I was supposed to be with Jerome.
I am supposed to go to a barbecue through my church this afternoon and I just don't feel like being social right now. This is the most traumatic thing I have been through in a long time and it hurts terribly.
I appreciate all the wonderful, wonderful support I have received on this board. That is why I feel comfortable posting this - especially to people who can look at it objectively. It is very cathartic to write here and I hope I am not going on too much.
Thank you. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2005 : 11:45:21
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Hi Suz,
My heart goes out to you. God, how things like that can hurt. Believe me, I know. I've had my share. Most of us have. I literally have made myself sick at times. Once, I let the most beautiful girl I've ever known get away from me because I thought the time wasn't right, and I was afraid to leave the woman I was with, because I couldn't face the pain of hurting her. That's a terrible mistake to make.
The thing is Suz, life is so short. If you continue on with this man whom you clearly do not love, you close yourself off to all the wonderful possibilities all around you, like that guy in the supermarket. One year, two, five...pretty soon life has passed you by and you can never get that time back.
Follow your heart, even when it hurts, and you can't go wrong...I promise.
Good thoughts,
A.
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2005 : 14:05:07
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Suz, you ask how you can not want to be with a man who can give you everything you want. You don't love him and are not attracted to him - so you can't be with him. Well, you can actually - but at what cost to yourself and to him?
I think your ex-fiance knows deep down and it sounds as though he was giving you the chance to finish it for good when he asked you to tell him if you didn't want all this. Bite the bullet, Suz - you know it makes sense.
You are not supposed to be with Jerome. Don't feel guilty about enjoying the short time you spent with the man in the supermarket - sometimes the unconscious mind does us favours, it's not always our TMS enemy.
All good wishes
Anne
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Edited by - n/a on 08/14/2005 14:07:33 |
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NLK
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2005 : 14:43:26
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Suz, he is not a changed man yet.
Let him demonstrate his commitment to change for TWO YEARS and then come see you. If you are still available and at all interested then, then date him anew and see if he's the right man.
He cannot possibly go from the child he has lived as for his whole life to being your ideal mate in 3 weeks. In addition to the various changes he needs to make (moving out of mommy's house, getting a job, etc), he has years of emotional maturity to catch up on.
Follow your instincts... by now you may be feeling a little more confident in them. Don't let his lipservice to change convince you that change has occurred... wait for long-term demonstration of behavioral changes. |
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leegold
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2005 : 15:11:44
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suz-
IN GENERAL:
matters of the heart suck- no amount of logic can be applied! and the mind usually loses those battles. many a great song has been written about it.
i dont think anyone-in this forum or out- can tell you whether youre 'supposed' to be with him or not. only you and god know your own heart. it would be much easier if someone could tell us one way or the other, but the truth is they cant.
also, there is attraction among people which is alive whether or not youre 'supposed' to be with someone. or even if youre married and committed- attractions do not go away, they are built into our being. how we deal with them will be based on our character and beliefs. just because you are attracted to someone, or they make you 'feel better', does NOT negate love and commitment to someone else. having said that, i have no doubt that i am supposed to be with my wife, although w/ her 3 kids from a previous marriage it was a struggle to see it at first.
SPECIFICALLY:
having said that, i agree w/ NLK. i would be wary of the permanance of a 3 week total life-belief system turnaround from ANYONE. if you even consider re-kindling the relationship i would go slowly and give it much more time to see if there will be consistency and permanance to his change. and even if there is, he may still have a struggle with the 'unfairness' of you not working. you know some of my history, and i struggled with this even though i still did what i believed. you need to determine if he really believes (im sure he thinks he does) or if his fear of losing you makes him THINK he now believes it. tough call to make without some time.
all the best,suz- we are with you in spirit even though we cant really tell you what decision to make.
lee |
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ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2005 : 15:48:19
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This discussion raises a big question for me. Can your TMS (gremlin or complex) block your feelings of love for your fiance? Did you love him before (when you got engaged) and just can't feel it now?
The reason I ask relates to my own situation, where it is my wife who is dominated by her TMS complex, but doesn't recognize it, insists her back pain is physical, won't even see a TMS doctor for a diagnosis, and won't listen to me, where it is clear to me that she has TMS. My story here:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=766
Now I experience her as two different people: the real Julie, who had told me that the years of our marriage before her back pain were the happiest of her life and who still says she loves me, and the other; angry, cruel, and distant, blocking her love for me and keeping me out of her life (this is the part I see as the TMS complex trying to get rid of me because I am a threat to its control).
I just read "Emotional Incest," By Dr, Patricia Love, which was recommended here, and see now that Julie and her mom are enmeshed, and her mom has pushed her into divorcing me and is an enabler for her TMS. And this all raises the question of: How much power does this TMS complex in the unconscious have over its victims?
From my experience so far, it seems very powerful, able to block and distort basic feelings and cause one to do things which might not be in one's best interest. And I also recently read "Taming Your Gremlin," also recommended here, and it was pointed out that the gremlin's interests are not at all related to your future happiness and in fact are not in your interest at all.
So the question: How can you trust your feelings if TMS is blocking or distorting them? How do you get down to your deeper feelings? and know what is really best for you?
Ralph |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2005 : 17:25:25
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Thank you all of you for your kind words. I was distraught this morning. I just got back from a rainy picnic with a group from my church. I spent some time talking to a friend of mine who became a priest about a year ago. He is in his mid thirties. His take on -how do you tell what to do in life or what not to do. Do you feel peace with your decision? Obviously he and I put it all in the context of God and his will for me - so he believes that you know and feel the right thing to do when you feel peace. You know - this kind of rings true for me.
I had doubts about my relationship with Jerome way before he proposed to me. I always felt a niggling doubt. Jerome said that was part of my perfectionism. I am not sure. I am going to spend the next few weeks dealing with all this in the only way I know how - praying, going to mass and immersing myself in my faith. It has got me through awful times and I have always come out of the other end.
My family is being supportive -however I find talks with my mum are hard as she has little subtelty. The more she tells me not to be with him, the more I question her and want to do the opposite! |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2005 : 07:53:06
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Don't take this the wrong way, Suz, but you really should be taking your own advice. Something always seems to derail you from that.
I suggest you give yourself a real break from all this. No interaction with your ex-fiancee. No discussions about your relationship with anyone, including yourself. Don't succomb to the pressures of being social if you don't feel like it. Consider yourself free of this obligation, free of this relationship, forever. Act as if this is already a foregone conclusion. Then re-evaluate your feelings after a few weeks, a couple months.
Consider the fact that you found someone else attractive, and that he was interested in you, a very good thing. You don't have to take the easy way out. You will meet other people. You will meet someone who will stir true feelings in you, rather than trigger conditioned thought patterns or win you over via guilt and hope.
And whenever you have doubts again, come back to this thread and re-read your own words. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2005 : 09:19:58
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Dave,
Fab advice - thanks very much
S |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 07:05:03
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Hi Suz..
That attraction thing makes us feel so shallow,bit it is a basic reality of couples.If you are not attracted to your mate,it is sort of a fundamental flaw in the foundation of your relationship.
I dated a girl for 7 years with never a whisper of discussion regarding marriage/kids/family...she was like my best friend,and although most people thought she was really pretty,I didn't really think she was my cup of tea.I cheated on her chronically,and the feelings of guilt and self loathing were sometimes as much as I could bear.
When I met my current wife,I asked her to marry me in like 3 weeks....and have never strayed(even with all this B*LLSH*T )
..so,being attracted to your mate certainly has a lot of REAL impact on the quality of your relationship
BTW...we have been..uhhh...studying together and HOPEFULLY learning how we place different values on different things.The home improvement committee and Mr. fix it have made peace for the time being...no symptoms either!
peace
Baseball65 |
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 13:11:13
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Sounds good Baseball65.
Especially the "place different values" part. It's funny (and unfortunate) how people have conflicts because of a difference in opinion. Why can't people have different opinions and needs? It's part of life. Or perhaps we should all be exact copies of each other. But who would we use as a mold? I bet you there would be a difference in opinion about whom.
quote:
Originally posted by Baseball65
Hi Suz..
BTW...we have been..uhhh...studying together and HOPEFULLY learning how we place different values on different things.The home improvement committee and Mr. fix it have made peace for the time being...no symptoms either!
peace
Baseball65
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 13:33:00
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Suz:
First of all, it sounds like you might need to clear your mind. You might try this approach.
1. As best as you can, obtain a state of mind where you aren't leaning one way or the other on this issue.
2. Write down the pros and cons on a piece of paper.
3. Use your intuition and reason to tell you which points are most important. For example, feeling whole hearted about marrying the man in question.
4. Use your intuition and reason to determine whether the pros and cons have the answer.
If you still don't feel certain, then perhaps it's better to do as other people have suggested, and forget about him until you're able to think about him with a clear mind. Sometimes people need time in order to get a clear perspective.
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 11:17:52
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| I wish you well. The best advice is to follow your heart and not just your emotions. Easier said than done I know. But each one of us has been given inner wisdom. Tap into it and listen to it and you will not go wrong. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 13:37:25
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| Thank you to all for their thoughts and advice. I have stepped away from the situation and am taking a breather. - not asking any advice anymore from anyone as I am going to trust my gut. I gave him back the ring last night. It was very painful and I realize that I am very angry with him - the guilt feelings have gone. I am comfortable that the engagement is broken off. I still have feelings for him when I saw him last night but reality is that right now this is not a viable marriage. My back pain has gone and I am at peace with my decision for now. Could it work out in the future? - I don't know - I am not worrying myself with that. My heart will tell me. In the meantime, I am living my life - am looking at condos to buy and spending lots of fun times with girlfriends |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 14:56:24
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Yeahh, Suz!!!!
Laura
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 16:20:02
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I'm kind of stopping in here late, but wanted to give you a pat on the back for paying attention to your gut feelings. All great advice from many people. I'm glad to hear you have distanced yourself and leaning on your faith. He's always there for us!
Interesting that you talk about attraction. By the time I married my husband, after dating for over 6 years, there was very little attraction left, and I was feeling more desperate than anything else. I was in my mask mode, knew nothing about boundaries, and didn't really know myself. But he is a good man, and I became aware of his great characteristics the longer I was with him. Unfortunately, he was also very controlling, was prone to fits of anger and rage, and whatever spark that was growing, soon died.
I started learning about myself, instituted boundaries that were essential to my survival, and all hell broke loose. And it's been chaos ever since! As soon as I started growing as a person, he couldn't handle it.
We've now been in counseling for a year and a half. It took almost a year to find a really good therapist who was willing to dig deep and find the CAUSE, and we've been working with her for about 5 weeks. It's painful, it's frustrating, and I'm not even sure we won't come out of it divorced, but at least we're trying and we're learning to take off the masks and be ourselves.
You are the lucky one -- I could have saved myself 25 years of pain if I'd just paid attention to my gut!
But then again, I wouldn't have my two awesome teenage boys.  |
Edited by - Michele on 08/17/2005 16:21:20 |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 08:29:35
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Thank you Michele and Laura. Michele, I will keep you in my prayers - good for you for doing something about it - it is very brave to face one's fears.
I have a new lease of life - some days are really good and then I have low moments - normally because I am caught up in fear for my future. I am trying to live in the moment right now - which seems to be quite a nice place to be! |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 11:04:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Suz
I have a new lease of life - some days are really good and then I have low moments - normally because I am caught up in fear for my future. I am trying to live in the moment right now - which seems to be quite a nice place to be!
My therapist always reminds me: Fear is False Events Appearing Real. Good luck, and keep us posted. |
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n/a
4 Posts |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 17:01:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Suz
I gave him back the ring last night. It was very painful and I realize that I am very angry with him - the guilt feelings have gone. I am comfortable that the engagement is broken off.
Hi Suz,
We've been waiting to hear this for a while. Excellent, you can move on now.
Take care, -Stryder |
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emotional pain
