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 Foot pain spurred my shoulder pain to return
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Kyle M.

23 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2019 :  11:27:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To start, I've been suffering from pain in my right (dominate) shoulder for over a month now. I'm an active, athletic person, and the pain has prevented me from doing any real exercise outside of walking nearly this entire time, which is horribly depressing for me.

The pain didn't come on suddenly from an awkward movement or anything. Rather, it came on gradually over the course of about 2 weeks. Having suffered from and overcome various TMS symptoms before (including shoulder pain), though, I tried to power through it and keep exercising. The pain only got worse, though, to the point where if I make a certain movement, I can feel a twinge, almost as if something's catching in there. This is a symptom I don't remember having the last time I had shoulder pain, and it's also what's most alarming to me.

After about 2 weeks of rest and feeling a little better, I tried to exercise for a couple days, which brought my symptoms right back to square one. I then made the mistake of seeing a doctor, who diagnosed my problem as bicep tendonitis. He told me to lay off it as much as possible, no upper-body exercises, and not to reach above my head. He also advised me to see a physical therapist for 4 weeks, which I really don't have time for. Following his prescription as much as possible (minus the PT), the pain only got worse.

I've read The Divided Mind in the past, the first and only Sarno book I've read since discovering his teachings, but I've long since given my copy away. Well, in my desperation and really want to believe this is TMS, too, I ordered all 4 of his books. After reading Mind Over Back Pain in two days, I felt confident this was indeed TMS again, and started doing things as fearlessly as I could with my right arm (short of exercising, though). I powered through the "twinges," and each time I did, it seemed to loosen up a bit more. To my surprise and excitement, it was noticeably better after 2 days. At this point, I felt I was well on my way to recovery. So much so, in fact, I was planning to start a new exercise routine this week.

Then Thanksgiving happened. I took a walk with my mother in the early evening and decided to wear a different pair of shoes than the ones I had worn the previous few days. They felt fine while walking, but later that night I got out of bed and noticed a nagging pain on the sole of my left foot. The next morning, the pain had subsided a bit, but nevertheless persisted. I checked the inserts on my shoes, and noticed one of them had slid up, so the arch was falling almost smack-dab in the middle of where I was now experiencing pain. I adjusted the insert, put my shoes on, and went to work, thinking that would solve the problem.

Well, on my break at work, I usually walk for about 20 minutes just to get out of the office, and I treated this night no differently. I had some mild pain in my foot while doing so, but nothing major. After returning to my office, though, the pain only got worse. In light of this, I wore my athletic shoes to work yesterday and decided to just sit in my car on my break for 20 minutes instead of walking. Although still lingering, the pain has dramatically subsided with each passing day, and I'm confident I'll get over it with a bit more rest.

My problem now, though, is the shoulder pain has returned in full-force, largely on the fear that if my foot pain was mechanical, then maybe my shoulder pain has been, too. I now worry that it was never really improving to begin with, either. Rather, I was just ignoring the pain in the hope that it was TMS.

I'm sure right now some of you are thinking the exact opposite: that the foot pain could just as likely be TMS, too, and is nothing more than an example of the symptom imperative. I doubt that, though, because it has improved since adjusting my footwear and giving it some rest. Additionally, the insert of the shoe was noticeably out of place.

You could say this continues to be one of my issues with TMS in general: how do I know when something is physical or psychological? It doesn't help that, barring broken bones and pathogenic illnesses and infections, I have absolutely zero faith in what medical doctors tell me anymore. Let me repeat that: absolutely zero. So I feel like I have no one but myself to tell me what to do when I face a physical malady.

Anyway, early last the week I cancelled an MRI because I felt I was on the road to recovery. Now, though, I'm thinking of rescheduling it. It's my hope that an MRI will show nothing of consequence, and at that point I can get back to my old routines again, confident in the fact that I'm not going to make things worse. On the other hand, though, my distrust of doctors has me worried that they'll manage to come up with something, anything, to attribute the pain to a physical abnormality, and in the state I'm in now, I fear I'd be apt to believe them, if only just enough to perpetuate the pain.

To those wondering, yes, I've been addressing the stresses in my life. I'm sick of my job; I'm applying again for an overseas job that I applied for and lost out on last year, the application process of which is quite lengthy; with regard to that job, I don't even know if I really want to do it anymore; when the shoulder pain initially came on, I had just come off of 2 weeks of training a new employee, which I hate doing; I'd recently made a large financial purchase; my brother recently moved back in with my aging parents, and I feel he's doing absolutely nothing to improve his situation; the holidays are coming, which is always stressful on me for various reasons; I turn another year older in January; and this past week I applied for another job within my company that is highly competitive and I doubt I'll get. There are other minor stresses, too, which I've no doubt are playing a part if this is TMS, but they're not really worth mentioning here.

So there is definitely cause for me to have TMS pain right now. That said, though, I'm not someone who chalks everything up to TMS, either. I'm an active person, and people get injured, after all. It's just as possible that my injury is due to overuse.

Regardless, I just want to get back to doing what I used to do. This is the longest I've ever gone without exercising in years, and it's absolutely awful. Every day, I feel myself withering away a little bit more, and I hate it. I just don't feel like myself anymore either, and I honestly don't know if I feel this way because I'm in pain, or if I'm in pain because I feel this way.

I'm really hopeful someone else here who has battled with and overcome shoulder pain, be it TMS-related or otherwise, can provide me with some words of encouragement. Thanks in advance for your help, and if you made it to the end of this post, thanks for taking the time to read it all.

tennis tom

USA
4654 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2019 :  12:17:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle M.


...I'm really hopeful someone else here who has battled with and overcome shoulder pain, be it TMS-related or otherwise, can provide me with some words of encouragement. Thanks in advance for your help, and if you made it to the end of this post, thanks for taking the time to read it all.



Hi Kyle, haven't had a chance to read your post in detail but will--I'm too busy exercising swimming and playing tennis--with a complete range of motion! I had a major shoulder issue prior to becoming TMS savvy and was given the usual scare by a neuro : "Follow my orders, do traction or you'll be seeing me for surgery!" Bottom line I did the stupid traction, got back into exercising and have a great serve and a good back-stroke in the pool with a complete range of motion! It was a bitch, very painful for probably at least six months--(corresponding with a tough emotional break-up--what a coincidence!). It was years ago and I've had a few momentary pro-preoceptive flare-ups that I quickly banished through TMS thinking--literally while swimming a couple of laps in the pool.

I'll read your post in detail soon, but you may want to also post at the TMS wiki for more views. G'luck! My pain was very real to the point I had to hold my arm above my shoulder while walking, but now it's at 1000%, so hang in there!

==================================================

TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale

Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605

==================================================

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti

"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown

“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation” – Plato

"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst

"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto

"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter

"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise" - Thomas Gray

"All my friends in Los Angeles are the sensitive type. They all have like all the diseases like Chronic Fatigue, Epstien Barr, Fibromyalgia. Like all the diseases where the only symptoms seem to be you had a really crappy childhood and at the prospect of full time work ya feel kinda achy and tired."

Posted by Skizzik @ TMSHelp from comedian Maria Bamford

"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthuisam."
Sir Winston Churchill

======================================================

"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod

=================================================


TMS PRACTITIONERS:

John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035

Dr. Sarno is now retired, if you call this number you will be referred to his associate Dr. Rashbaum.

"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno



Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm

Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist



Edited by - tennis tom on 12/02/2019 12:20:51
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altherunner

Canada
498 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2019 :  22:24:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kyle - I have had both foot and shoulder pain that are tms, just recently had pain that was moving around that I was able to relate to work. It has gone away. Of course, don't hesitate to get things checked out, pain that moves from place to place is a big clue though.
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tennis tom

USA
4654 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2019 :  09:18:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kyle, from the things you describe having precipitated your excruciating pains : I DOUBT IT. I would advise you to get your TMS books out of your medicine cabinet and re-read your Sarno. He advises that the body IS STRONG!--it's the mind that's weak--until it gets fortified with TMS KNOWLEDGE PENICILLIN. You need a TMS booster. You can't hurt yourself by sitting, you can't hurt yourself by sleeping wrong--you can receive traumatic structural pain by stepping out in front of a bus while looking at an iPhone--but then you have to ask yourself, where was the situational awareness that put you in front of that bus? If your slipping orthotic was gonna' cause you injury your pro-preoceptive awareness would have notified you to fix it immediately not later--but I'm sure your podiatrist would be more them happy to fit you with a new pair for a couple of grand that would be even more uncomfortable--my $5,000 worth of painful orthotics are under the bed collecting dust--I play tennis on grass courts bare-foot as God intended--it's now called "earthing". In my running days there was a guy in my running club who ran marathons barefoot through the city streets through glass and poop and all. Re-read your Sarno, it worked for you before, ocassionally we need a TMS Knoweldge Penicillin booster when our unconscious wants to protect us with it's pschological defense mechanism.

Doctor's tell us to rest--do nothing--because they're practicing defensive medicine--it's harder to get sued for malpractice by telling patients to not do anything--that does result in depression though. The Good Doctor says to Just Do It!--resume normal activity. If you haven't read Steven Ray Ozaniche's great TMS tome/text book 'THE GREAT PAIN DECEPTION' that's another great TMS resource--what he went through is amazing!

Edited by - tennis tom on 12/04/2019 09:25:50
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Kyle M.

23 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2019 :  11:24:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you both for your responses.

I'm kind of sorry to say that I ended up getting the MRI yesterday. I won't know what the results are for a couple of days, but after I learned the cost with my copay, I felt like I didn't haven't a good reason not to have it done. My fear is that it's a labral tear, so if that's ruled out it will go a long way in backing up my TMS theory.

The other thing holding me back is the fear of a legitimate case of tendonitis. Years ago, I had tendonitis in my right Achilles, which I ignored, until it swelled up to about 3 times its size. I ended up limping around for 3 months until it healed, so I'm terrified that I might end up in the same boat with my shoulder, which has been far more debilitating for me.

Anyway, I've been reading up on TMS just about daily. I finished Healing Back Pain a few days ago, and I'm now on chapter 2 of The Mind Body Prescription. It definitely helps, to the point that the pain noticeably subsides while I'm reading it. Whether this is proof of TMS or just simply a case of diverting my attention away from the pain, though, I'm not sure.

Regardless, I'm hopeful the MRI will come back negative, and from there I can get on a firmer road to recovery.

Thank you both again for your help, and if anyone else any advice, encouragement, or words of wisdom to offer, it would be very welcome.
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tennis tom

USA
4654 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2019 :  11:43:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle M.


The other thing holding me back is the fear of a legitimate case of tendonitis. Years ago, I had tendonitis in my right Achilles, which I ignored, until it swelled up to about 3 times its size. I ended up limping around for 3 months until it healed, so I'm terrified that I might end up in the same boat with my shoulder, which has been far more debilitating for me.



What "caused" your Achilles to heal?
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Kyle M.

23 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2019 :  11:04:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
What "caused" your Achilles to heal?


I ran at the time, so I stopped running and stayed off of it as much as possible. Like I said, it took about 3 months, but it did eventually heal.

Anyway, the results of the MRI came back, and it is indeed a labral tear, so it looks like I'll have to have surgery. The healing time for a labral tear after surgery seems very long and painful, too, so I'm pretty upset about the whole thing. I was really hoping a labral tear might fall under TMS, too, but everything I've looked at online seems to indicate that a labral tear is a real condition that has to be treated accordingly.

Regardless, thanks again for your help, everybody. I do wish I had better news to report, but it is what it is, I guess.
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tennis tom

USA
4654 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2019 :  15:28:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Before you have your surgery. put "labral tear" into the "search" feature here and see what you find--look for the thread with Dr. Zafrides reply in it, a noted TMS doctor. The words "labral tear" will be highlighted in yellow.

Also do a "search" at the TMS wiki! You'll find some more on your symptom.

Edited by - tennis tom on 12/07/2019 15:32:44
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Kyle M.

23 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2019 :  09:32:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for your reply, Tom. I actually saw that thread before posting yesterday, and I felt Allen's (the first person to respond to the post) experience more or less fell in line with everything else I've read on the subject. The link posted also doesn't work for me and is apparently for labral tears in the hip. Not sure if whatever findings were in that report would hold true for labral tears of the shoulder or not.

Anyway, I'm going to look for more experiences and opinions on the diagnosis today. I found an interesting YouTube video yesterday before work which cited a study where two radiologists examined MRIs of the same group of patients, and one said 55% had labral tears, and the other 72%. The rub: none of the patients were experiencing any pain.

If nothing else, I'm going to have to get a second or even third opinion on the results of my MRI before doing anything drastic. I just want this whole ordeal to be behind me as soon as possible, though, so I can get back to exercising again.
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tennis tom

USA
4654 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2019 :  10:42:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle M.

I just want this whole ordeal to be behind me as soon as possible, though, so I can get back to exercising again.



It's good you're doing your research before taking invasive measures--all surgeries can have serious side effects like DEATH! I had an infection from some dental work and nearly DIED from a rare condition called a Ludwig's Angina. Not trying to scare you, but the docs softplay the serious side-effects.

You can't hurry TMS healing. It may have taken your unconscious all your life to develop TMS as a PROTECTOR defense mechanism. My shoulder took many months to "heal" as the life pressures that caused it resolved.

Before you get cut and go for the quick medical-industrial fix, see a TMS physician. If there's none near you you can consult with them by phone and send them your MRI reports.

In your urge to return to the natrual high of endorphins provided by exercise, you don't want to make things worse. There are likely other forms of exercise you can do as your shoulder resolves itself naturally, work other parts of your body. Pool work is great--running in the pool with a flotation belt exercises all the body up to the nose with smooth resistance.

==================================================

TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale

Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605

==================================================

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti

"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown

“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation” – Plato

"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst

"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto

"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter

"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise" - Thomas Gray

"All my friends in Los Angeles are the sensitive type. They all have like all the diseases like Chronic Fatigue, Epstien Barr, Fibromyalgia. Like all the diseases where the only symptoms seem to be you had a really crappy childhood and at the prospect of full time work ya feel kinda achy and tired."

Posted by Skizzik @ TMSHelp from comedian Maria Bamford

"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthuisam."
Sir Winston Churchill

======================================================

"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod

=================================================


TMS PRACTITIONERS:

John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035

Dr. Sarno is now retired, if you call this number you will be referred to his associate Dr. Rashbaum.

"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno



Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm

Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist



Edited by - tennis tom on 12/08/2019 10:43:47
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Kyle M.

23 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2019 :  14:38:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks again, Tom.

Unfortunately there are no TMS doctors near me, and I'm reluctant to do an appointment via Skype or telephone. I've seen the orthopedist I plan to make an appointment with before, though, and he's pretty conservative in his treatment, so I'm relatively optimistic.

That said, I'm already sick of this cycle of doctor visits. I also rarely feel like myself these days, and I know a big part of that is my inability to exercise. It's just a bad situation all the way around.
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tennis tom

USA
4654 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2019 :  16:18:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle M.



...I'm reluctant to do an appointment via Skype or telephone.



Why?--it's commonly done by TMS'ers due to the rarity of TMS physicians. If h/she gives you a TMS dx, then you will be put on the right track--or, you can continue on the allopathic/medical-industrial/PT/chiro/accu/supplements/voo-doo track.

Edited by - tennis tom on 12/09/2019 12:20:58
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tennis tom

USA
4654 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2019 :  12:25:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
check out this thread about joint surgery :

https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/recurrence-of-hip-pain-post-surgery.22151/#post-114228
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