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aorta
76 Posts |
 Posted - 06/20/2005 : 18:42:32
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Im interested in personal cases of neuropathic pain that have been eliminated by applying tms methods. Please tell me what hurt, how long, and how it healed.
Thanks
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 18:59:11
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| yes, i had "carpal tunnel syndrome", "ulnar tunnel syndrome", and "tarsal tunnel syndrome" for about 8 months, then after 3-4 months of internalizing tms methods, I "healed" from all of them |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 19:20:29
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Can you explain a little more ? Not familar with all those entrapments.
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 11:11:13
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| There is alot of information about them on the internet if you really want to know. Personally, I don't think the specifics matter too much, the botton line is that I had a neuropathy that supposedly was going to stop me from using my hands (and feet), and it turns out that I was falsely informed and that I was fine all along. Using the tms techniques didn't heal me of anything, there was never anything wrong with me in the first place. The tms techniques just helped me to realize that. |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 12:23:12
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quote by JohnD: "Using the tms techniques didn't heal me of anything, there was never anything wrong with me in the first place. The tms techniques just helped me to realize that."
Impossible to say it better than that. When I speak of healing, I am talking about the process of getting rid of the pain--deconditioning myself so to speak. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 16:15:49
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Aorta,
I read a couple of pages from your first thread as well as this, and just wanted to say that if you're still doubting that you've got anger/rage, I see a lot of it in your writing. This is not at all a crit.. In fact, I would say it's good news as, at least up through page two or so of your first post, you were still having trouble with that aspect of the TMS approach.
I also want to say that I had some trouble myself accepting that I had all this inner rage bottled up, but it turned out not to be an impediment to my making lots of good progress with almost all of my physical problems.
I say almosty because I've also got a chronic illness which I'm just beginning to accept is TMS. In fact, I didn't even get into this stuff with this illness in mind, so I've kind of surprised myself...Hopefully I'll begin making some good progress with it as well...
The main thing for me has just been to accept that my pain is benign and that it cannot hurt me...I've noticed that when I truly accept this, my fear goes away, and when my fear goes away, my pain goes away...I'm honestly not sure that it necessarily has to be any more complicated than that...
Try to keep things simple...Be less worried with looking for things to argue about and more interestd in seeing how you can make this stuff work for yourself...Again, I missed a couple pages of the first thread, so if you've had some sort of TMS epiphany that I missed, please forgive me.
I also hope you can forgive the presumptuousness, if that's how it strikes you, of giving such blunt advice. It's simply one man's opinion.
Good thoughts to you,,
A
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 16:30:53
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Art thanks for the good thoughts.
No epiphany thats for sure.
Not sure if i should be here, or in the experimental wing of some new age hospital which of course would mean my demise.
Ive hit bottom about now. You want rage, o.k.
Im more pissed than words can describe. Ive lost so much time with my family. Ive missed some of my daughters events, that i would never miss. I love each moment of them. Im furious that a guy like me who is happy with his family, his house, his business, is having it all tortured away from him. Im pissed that i cant even take a pill to relieve this pain. I hate that i cant enjoy a movie, or even a nice breeze. Im disgusted with all the doctors that have seen me and had nothing to offer. Most of all im infuriated that every day my daughter asks me how i am, and i cant say good.This shouldnt happen to a criminal. Im pissed that i pray and pray, and get no relief. Im disgusted that i cant go on a vacation with my family and they are left dissapointed. I hate that they have to make stories up when people ask how i am. Hate, pissed, furious,rage. I hate that this will not leave.
thanks art gotta go take a tranq or something. |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 17:49:20
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Aorta, you are suffering so very badly right now. This probably won't be what you want to hear right now, but two years ago I was in the kind of pain you describe. The pain in my lower back was just awful. I had other problems also - IBS, allergies, UTI symptoms and more besides. Honestly, life was just about not worth living.
I'd had to give up my teaching job, spent most of my days lying on the floor because I was in so much pain, couldn't go anywhere - a life of increasing disability was what I thought I was facing. I couldn't drive, couldn't do normal household tasks and, I couldn't even pick up my new baby grandaughter.
How long did I hurt? From my lowest ebb, where you are now, probably a few weeks longer at that level, then months with easier days and relapses and by one year after that time, I was able to resume many activities. Now two years on I'm back at work and enjoying life greatly.
I still consider that I have a TMS prone personality, so I still read and post here. I think that it keeps me on track. I haven't had any significant pain for around a year or so now.
You are at a crossroads right now - don't give up and don't stay away from this board. We know what you are talking about.
The level of pain you are suffering creates great fear and getting that fear to lessen was what begun my recovery. Once you begin to get the better of the fear, the pain will lessen. Notice when a pain strikes or worsens - a surge of fear will follow it right away. For a start just let yourself notice that surge of fear. Don't try to fight it - just notice it. When you can break into the horrible pain/fear/escalating pain vicious spiral you will feel more optimistic. There are good books out there that can help with that.
One thing you could do - when I was still feeling really bad, but little chinks of recovery were begining to appear, I made a 'to-do' list. All the things I wanted to do - those that I missed doing, those that I'd always fancied doing and those things that had been ruined for and by me because I was in so much pain. Each time I did something on my list, I ticked it off. It's a good feeling!
The items on my list ranged from going to a clothing store and trying on clothes to visiting my American family (when I last visited in 2001, I couldn't do any of the great things they had planned for me. I ruined the vacation for my husband and I was the guest from hell). I went in May of this year and loved it.
Aorta - I'm sure you must feel that the things I am describing are not what you want to hear and they may sound frivolous when you are in so much pain, but you're not in a hopeless place. It seems like that, I know, but decide you are going to do something tomorrow - when your daughter asks you how you are feeling - say you are feeling a bit better. Even if you are not - say it anyway - give it a go. Decide that your recovery starts now.
Very best wishes from someone who has been in the horrible place you are in right now.
from Anne
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 19:16:21
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Anne,
Many of the things you said were very good to hear. I was especially interested in the fear/pain connection. Please feel free to elaborate on that , anything personal you remember may be of help to me.
Thanks so much for your post. Lets hear more.
As far as telling my daughter, she knows, i would never lie to her.
Thank you again. |
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n/a
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 01:59:50
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Hi Aorta,
I've been reading your threads with interest. I have been having some success using Sarno's "methods" for nerve-type pain and numbness. It seems like you really are overwhelmed from the disabling aspects of whole body type pain. You might want to get a copy of "Rapid Recovery from Back and Neck Pain: A nine-step process" by Fred Amir. It is along the Sarno lines but Fred had to deal with very disabling pain throughout his body and developed a concrete plan to help himself and others. I think his theory is focused more on de-conditioning your body from the pain associated with movement and certain activities and not as much focus on the unconscious feelings part. He was so determined to get better and try something new each day and not give in to the fear. In reading his book I certainly got a sense of his intense perfectionism and it made me laugh in recognition of my own perfectionistic type of thinking. Hope this is helpful, take care, I really understand your frustration at losing the "good parts" in your life. Sometimes I just have to stop thinking about what I've lost and take several deep breaths to get my self out of fear mode. Best of luck to you,
LJJ |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 02:34:32
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I understand completely why you can't lie to your daughter, Aorta, and in normal circumstances you are, of course right.
This is the way I looked at it: my brain was sending out messages that were incorrect and harmful. I was in great pain and suffering from unbearable anxiety - there was no sinister reason for my physical pain and I have a very good marriage and loving family. By the way, I know it's easy to say that now - two years on, but there were many times back then if anyone had told me how I'd be feeling and living now, I would not have believed it for one minute.
I didn't consider it lying (even though, when I first made the decision to say I was improving, that was not the case). The thing is, it slowly and gradually became the truth - the real truth, in fact - the pain, though all too real, was dishonest in its origin. My TMS gremlin was playing tricks on me.
I'm not going to pretend it was easy to crack the pain/fear thing and sometimes still, when I first wake in the morning, I still get a kind of shadowy memory of how it felt back then, but it never develops into anything - when I get up and get going with what I have on that day, that sorts it out.
I have to go to work now - yes I'm back working part time - I'll post in more detail later.
Take care of yourself
Anne
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 21:20:56
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Thanks Anne,
I understand what you are saying about the pain/fear thing, and i do relate. Unfortunately i also have a pain/depression thing going on as well. That is the pain disables me so much and there is so much at stake that when im particularly ill i go into despair as well, and Im afraid im not positive enough to fight all this.
I have to be careful what i say here since im not a full believer yet, I wish i were and was telling my success story believe me.
The intestinal/g.i. thing i feel is coming from the spine also, in that if i irritate ths spine, the other problem is much worse. I could deal with the back, neuropathy better if the damn intestines would improve, or vice versa, but it doesnt happen. I have some protruding dorsal vert. that are very sore to the touch, the occipital is very painful,sharp pains in the lumbar, and all my joints pop and crack constantly. Then there is the neuropathy, burning feet, muscle twitches and tremors, and so on.
I dont know what the right thing is to do. I will try to look into all this tms, but im having a hard time trying to be positive at all.
I have an inner child, and an outer old man in agony.
I got amirs book, and im trying that. I only hope i can see some improvement to encourage me a little out of this dump im in.
Thanks again for your help, and if you have any suggestions, id love to hear them.
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 21:31:09
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LJJ,
Im sorry i read and forgot to reply to your post. Youre the one that got me to order Amirs book, which i just started.
I wish you luck in treating your neuropathic pains. Did you have mris and if so what did they show? |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 08:00:44
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| Aorta- Your post made me remember that my ibs was the worst when my back was in spasm. They did feel connected at the time. Tms affects the nerves and I could feel the connection. I also had a numb,twitchy right arm and it all felt connected. When I applied Sarno's theory it all weakened together. Don't dispair. Mine improved a little at a time. I was also sure I had colon cancer,spinal tumors,etc. I would really reccomend Sarno's video for you. His patients tell their stories and are very credible. You will see that you are not alone. Fear has taken you to the far reaches. I cannot emphasize enough to try to concentrate on things that might be bothering you instead of your discomfort. This process will break the obsessive cycle you are in. You are constantly working yourself up to panic attack level. You have got to take it down a notch and realize that you are allright. This tms stuff is miserable but really quite harmless. |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 12:17:43
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suzie,
Thank you for your reply. Since you have similar problems i would be interested in hearing more of your story, and suggestions. However there seems to be a lynch mob forming and i may just silently observe.Yes there is definately a connection between my back and intestines, although mine seems more severe than ibs. I am trying the suggestions others have made, and i sure hope for some improvement. These things i have just said, will infuriate some, but thank you for your thoughts.
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 12:53:35
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| aorta- feel free to vent. What you are feeling is others frustration because they know they are giving you directions to your house, you just seem to keep turning the wrong way. When my ibs was the worst, I was in bed. I first thought I had food poisoning then when it continued,colon cancer. I was absolutely terrified. This frightened me more than the backpain because it was internal. Fear is your biggest enemy. I had bouts of it before but really didn't know what it was. My worst ibs came with the backpain. I know it's hard to understand how Sarno's theory could help you with this but it does. The tms equivalent symptoms are sometimes much scarrier then the backpain. I suffered the equivalents about 8 years ago when contemplating divorce. I went to many doctors and could find nothing. I finally went to a diagnostic hospital in Dallas and they, too, could find nothing. This knowledge gave me confidence that there was nothing wrong thus acting as a placebo and I was ok for several years. A few years ago I experienced some stressors and here came illness again. Then came pain and numbness. I swear to you it's all the same. Try to focus on what we are telling you. Most of us are not crazy(a little joke) and we know what we are talking about. I hope you will become one of the minority that will believe this. You made the first hurdle by finding this website. It will honestly change your quality of life forever. |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 13:37:38
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Suzie,
Some things are difficult to pass along, i realize. Its like trying to tell someone verbally how to ride a bike. You just move the pedals around with your feet and steer.
The thing is, i cant really convince myself that this is whats going on 100%. When i elaborate on symptoms i get accused of whining etc, and of course tms is anti-symptom, that i understand.
I really havent had that much testing done on the spine neuropathy part, after all the other testing,and panic and depression started happening, i couldnt make myself do some of the tests. Besides, tms pretty much disregards the test results in that herniated discs, entrapments and so on are considered not a diagnosis. I agree with a lot of that in theory and even if i had a diagnosis of herniated discs i would avoid surgery like the plague. So im in a no win situation right now. Tell me if possible how you began to get better. Was it just from reading the books, or putting something into practice.
Thanks
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n/a
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 13:37:39
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Aorta,
Glad you ordered the book I recommended. Hope it is helpful in just getting you to let go of some of the fear and preoccupation. I have had bizarre nerve type pains in the past which seem to get worse the more I focused on it. Had mri that didn't really show much. My primary care doctor was more concerned about my extreme fear and worry hurting my health than anything else (He is a colleague of Andrew Weil's and takes a more holistic approach). The nerve stuff seems to increase the more I freak out about it. Ignoring it and pretending I'm ok seems to help (along with prayer and slow deep breathing). I think I think too much and sometimes just need to lose myself in something else. I think that one's body (especially the nervous system) can get conditioned from an early age to having something "wrong" with it---something to give the owner something to focus on and one just "does life" this way as one grows up. I'm talking about classical Pavlovian conditioning which Fred Amir talks about in his book. (He does add a lot of Operant Conditioning as well though.) Hope you get better. Hang in there.
--LJJ |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 13:46:44
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Thanks for the reply.
Yes Amir certainly seems to put a postive action approach through.Less on the discovering what the rage is.
I dont know how bad your problems were or are,but it sounds as if you downplayed the symptoms as much as possible? Was that the major factor in your healing? In one year i am now feeling so bad, that its difficult to even go for a car ride, very difficult to try to ignore that much pain and sickness.I know everyone thinks this, but it is possible that there is something else wrong, i may never know. Did you force yourself to do things that were extremely difficult?
Thanks |
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n/a
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 14:13:53
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Hi Aorta,
I did set little (very tiny at times) goals for myself. At first I could just walk down the hall to the bathroom. Then I aimed for going outside to the mailbox. Then just 1/16th of a mile up the small hill by my house and so on. I kept talking to my body the whole time telling it to knock off the pain and doing positive affirmations in time to my steps. I focused more on other things like the birds singing and the fresh air and found I could gradually go further. I had to get myself out of the mindset that I would do more each day (my perfectionistic tendencies) and allowed for setbacks. I had to learn to internalize and say to myself encouraging words that I had previously depended on others around me to tell me. (I had previously been in the rut of telling my spouse and friends how much I hurt and then they would say something encouraging and then I would say something negative to argue against it). A far as the finding out the big unconscious angry stuff inside and feeling it...that doesn't seem to work for me. I pretty much know that I wimp out when other people get mad at me so the big thing was to stand up for myself when that happened and take risks. For instance, just going on this tms help board was a big deal for me. I got in an argument with Austin Gary (a previous poster and originator of this board) and I forced myself to hang in there and keep posting. I also saw and am currently seeing a Christian therapist who does art therapy with me and helps me deal with low self-esteem issues. I am way too much in my head and when I draw it seems to tap into the non-verbal feelings inside.
So that's about it...hope this is helpful.
Oh, also I did "shopping therapy"---I would set small goals to go to stores (like Barnes and Noble) or malls that I liked and walked around then headed home--feeling exhausted but it gave me more outside stimulus to get my mind off of things than staying home looking at the same walls of my house. I figured I would spend the money I normally would have spend on doctors on fun stuff I liked at the stores instead.
Take care,
LJJ |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 14:25:40
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| You are not in a no-win situation. This is the kind of thinking that is making everyone jump on you. You are and always have been in total control. You just don't know it. I inhaled both Sarno books and did exactly what he said. It was worth a try. With so many different symptoms, it's the only thing that made sense to me. I sat down for about 20 minutes two times a day for several weeks and journaled.(very hard for me to sit still. I am a poster child for adult a.d.s.)I started eating normal and moving normal as if there was nothing wrong with me because there wasn't. I ordered the videos and found this website. The people on here are a lifesaver. When I got frustrated, the members would put me back in line. Everyone on here has the best of intentions for you. At some near point in time you are going to have to jump in or jump off. |
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Anyone cured of Neuropathy?
