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aorta
76 Posts |
 Posted - 06/20/2005 : 14:43:11
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I chose aorta as it is an anagram of my real name that i use. The other two i use have nothing to do with body parts, but i overused them lately, so i used aorta,a name others have called me. I dont think there is too much psychologically revealing here.
Am i talking myself out of being tms? No, i would rather have tms than cancer, but im having the feeling both could be equally hard to cure.Again, i agree that emotions, repressed hurts effect your health, and probably your entire life, but what makes it tms in particular and what the heck do you do about it?
Carolyn i will write the journals, i am desperate, and i gather from your post that just writing this stuff should, but maybe not, have an effect on my physical symptoms. We shall see. I also see you say it can make it worse, that i cant afford. There is not necessarily a revelation there as increasing your anxiety could make anything worse.
I agree that my lack of self esteem, poor experience with doctors and medicine, constant fear, have effected my health. The big question is how can i improve the symptoms i have now aside from writing a journal and reading sorno books over and over.
I could also say that i have bad allergies (possibly due to emotional reasons from childhood, possibly not), and that these allergies have been responsible for most of my problems including migraines, menieres, etc. and also allergy to medications.
I was sick for months with the menieres, so dizzy i was sick to my stomach couldnt eat. It was finally fixed with a squirt of nose drops. The question is, would back then if i dug into my emotions and therapy etc, would that have cured them? I dont think so.
Dealing with your mental state since birth is no easy feat. But the Sarno books seem to imply you dont have to necessarily fix those problems. Im just trying to get straight what you do.
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 14:47:45
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johhnyg
i have read the sorno books at least two to three times. i can relate to what he is saying. I accept that my emotions have effected my health. Why arent i cured ? |
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Marilyn
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 14:56:07
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quote:
Originally posted by aorta
Thanks Polly, havent had a good day in over a year.
To everyone, once i start a journal of my fears etc., do i just list them, elaborate on them in writing. Since they are the same basically do i just repeat them all the following days etc.
Im also concerned that dwelling on these things will make my mind worse, having panic and depression.
My understanding is that you just try to get in touch with what you are feeling. I know what you mean when you say you are concerned about dwelling on bad feelings. I wondered about that too. But the bottom line is the only way we can get through them is to feel them then let them go. Sounds like you are a lot like I was in that we tried to ignore the bad emotions when they came up and we have created quite a build-up of repressed, suppressed emotions. I personally think that if having more tests, which either come out negative, or which cause some doctor to prescribe a plan of treatment that doesn't work, helps you more completely believe it HAS to be TMS, then go ahead and do it.
With the amount of fear you have, your brain is fighting like crazy to direct you away from emotions........the basis of TMS. |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 17:43:18
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| Aorta- I read thru your posts again and your questions are all valid. You have drawn out many of the "old",experienced tmsers and have gotten some really good advice. I can tell you for sure that you will not get relief until you concede that there is nothing wrong with you. It is hard to belief that your brain could create the problems that you have but I can assure you that it can. You have to decide for yourself whether this concept is valid in your case. Desperation has led you to this website. Give it a try. You really have to jump all the way to receive the benefits. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 18:23:51
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quote:
Originally posted by aorta
I could also say that i have bad allergies (possibly due to emotional reasons from childhood, possibly not), and that these allergies have been responsible for most of my problems including migraines, menieres, etc. and also allergy to medications.
I was sick for months with the menieres, so dizzy i was sick to my stomach couldnt eat. It was finally fixed with a squirt of nose drops. The question is, would back then if i dug into my emotions and therapy etc, would that have cured them? I dont think so.
It's clear you really don't believe in TMS, deep down, even though you may be telling yourself that you do. This is no surprise, given the life you have led. It is hard to undo so many years of conditioning.
You say you read Sarno several times, yet you don't know what to do. But Dr. Sarno spells out the treatment very clearly in his book.
There is no magic cure. It takes hard work and focus to beat TMS, but first, it takes acceptance and belief. And frankly, I do not think you are there yet.
You may benefit from seeing Dr. Sarno or another TMS doctor to get the diagnosis from a doctor. |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 18:40:52
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Guys, i dont believe in anything just from reading a book. With the exception of the Bible and that took some time as well. Youre right Dave, i dont automatically believe in tms. I dont disbelieve either.
Speaking of the Bible, i paraphrase crudely, "if you believe in your mind and do not doubt..." Yes i believe that. If you believe a pill will fix your problem, it probably will. But im a tough sell. The Bible again, doubting Thomas wasnt reproached for wanting proof, instead Jesus said, "put your fingers in the scars etc." Apologies for the sect references for those of other faiths, but it illustrates the point, there is nothing wrong with needing proof. There are those that can believe by faith if you will, and that is o.k. too, but its not me.
You are right, im not sure what is causing my pain. I do think there is physical and psychological elements to it.
Dave, i will sum up what i remember from the sarno books as far as treatment. Think psychological instead of physical,read the books many times, return to your normal activities, yell at your subconsious to stop tricking you with symptoms, do not treat the physical problems with meds or therapy. And thats about it. i heard of the journal later on. I will try the journal, i will try to read parts of the book throughout the day, i will try to think about what pent up issues may be effecting my health. I pray that something helps me soon. i appreciate your advice, if anyone else has suggestions, please...but you are right at this point, i dont know whats the matter with me. If i could believe, truly believe it was a b12 deficiency, getting b12 shots would help. But im here in limbo.and it stinks here in limbo, being in pain constantly, being isolated from all i love.
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 21:17:19
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Johnnyg,
From reading another post, am i to conclude that after lifting something heavy you had pain that lasted over 15 years and that you have been doing sarno for 8 years and you are still not in good shape?
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Marilyn
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 21:52:43
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| If it were me, I would fly all the way across the country if I had to just to see a TMS doctor. If he diagnoses you with TMS, you might be more able and willing to accept it on an emotional level (not just intellectual). |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 22:33:57
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Not sure what to think about that statement. Im fairly sure that any tms doctor would diagnose me as tms, i certainly fit the pattern.
This wouldnt necessarily convince me, as i would expect a a reasonably sincere doctor to tell me he believes its the cause of my problems, so there i dont have to take the trip. But what would he do for me, that is the question. If it comes down to the same think psychological, believe its the cause of your symptoms, im in the same boat unless he is a hypnotist. An exceptional doctor may convince me,with incite and a logical way to attack this it might save me. If i got a lot of nothing,same old "you gotta believe" peter pan stuff, i would be upset, i could have went to the bahamas.
if he was in the bahamas...hmmmm. Now this is cognitive thinking.
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Marilyn
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 22:49:26
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[quote]Originally posted by aorta
Not sure what to think about that statement. Im fairly sure that any tms doctor would diagnose me as tms, i certainly fit the pattern.
I think they would be SURE you had TMS if they gave you that opinion.
If they diagnose you wrongly, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. They would go over all the tests you've had, and if there was ANY possibility that something physical was going on, they would tell you to protect themselves. Also, they may have some "tricks" up their sleeves to convince people who find it hard to believe. |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 22:57:08
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| But the psychiatrist can diagnose it all as manifestations of panic disorder, and If i had bulging discs, i would expect the orthopedic doctor to diagnose the discs as the source of pain. A chiropractor would diagnose subluxations and pinched nerves, and i dont think you could sue any of them. |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 07:25:28
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Aorta asked:
"From reading another post, am i to conclude that after lifting something heavy you had pain that lasted over 15 years and that you have been doing sarno for 8 years and you are still not in good shape?"
No, I've been an attorney for 8 years. I've been doing Sarno for about 3 or 4 months. Prior to that, I knew it was psychological, I just didn't know how to beat it. I'm still recovering, but now I see remarkable progression in my symptoms that I never saw for 15 years. At this point my pain is still there, but very mild--most of the time it feels stiff for a little while, then releases, then stiffens up again. I have no doubt that this is my brain's last ditch effort to keep the syndrome going. The key is not letting it win. The subconscious has deeply ingrained habits, that's why it can take a while. Remember that all doctors acknowledge that emotions play a factor in pain, what makes TMS therapy different is that we recognize unconscious emotions as the cause of the pain and all emotions as an exascerbating factor.
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 07:37:42
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| Did you have any testing done, mri's in the past 15 years? |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 07:37:53
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quote:
Originally posted by aorta
I pray that something helps me soon.
Treating TMS means taking responsibility for your own healing. It means acceptance that the symptoms are a benign signal that something is troubling you deep inside, on a level that you cannot feel. It means doing the work diligently every day. For those who do not truly believe in TMS, it means a leap of faith.
Like so many others, you have read the book, but you really have only paid it lip service. You half-heartedly try the suggestions in the book, but deep down you do not believe it will work. You journal about superficial emotions, but you do not strive to uncover (or are unwilling to face) the deeper feelings behind the wall that you have spent a lifetime building. You hope and pray instead of taking control.
Without 100% commitment and focus (even if you don't have 100% belief) then recovery is not possible. Your attitude is not compatible with treating TMS. If you cannot change it yourself, then you have a few choices: (1) seek out a TMS doctor; (2) truly take a leap of faith and try your best; (3) continue to see traditional doctors and try other treatments in the hopes that eventually they will find a "cure." |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 08:00:12
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| I had an MRI in the early 90's and one a couple years ago. Both show bulging disc at L5 S1. One doctor actually admitted that since the bulge affected no nerve, I shouldn't have pain. It would take hours for me to describe all the doctors I saw. Then in 2004, I stopped seeing doctors, except for my chiropractor (who I informed when I started Sarno that I wasn't going back). Just around the time of the second MRI around 2003, I also did VAX-D therapy--total waste of time. It really shouldn't take as long as it does to realize that there is no structural reason for the pain. But once you do, you become free from all the BS you think you've got to have--pills, herbs, back supports--all BS. I'm sooo peaved that so many people made money off me because of my pain and when I tried to start my own firm, you couldn't mug a person for money. |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 09:49:51
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Posted - 06/21/2005 : 07:37:53
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quote:
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Originally posted by aorta
I pray that something helps me soon.
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Treating TMS means taking responsibility for your own healing. It means acceptance that the symptoms are a benign signal that something is troubling you deep inside, on a level that you cannot feel. It means doing the work diligently every day. For those who do not truly believe in TMS, it means a leap of faith.
Like so many others, you have read the book, but you really have only paid it lip service. You half-heartedly try the suggestions in the book, but deep down you do not believe it will work. You journal about superficial emotions, but you do not strive to uncover (or are unwilling to face) the deeper feelings behind the wall that you have spent a lifetime building. You hope and pray instead of taking control.
Without 100% commitment and focus (even if you don't have 100% belief) then recovery is not possible. Your attitude is not compatible with treating TMS. If you cannot change it yourself, then you have a few choices: (1) seek out a TMS doctor; (2) truly take a leap of faith and try your best; (3) continue to see traditional doctors and try other treatments in the hopes that eventually they will find a "cure."
I came here as i stated recognizing much of myself in the books as did many others. I came to find out more, in particular, what do you do now? The books were enough to make me investigate this further, but from reading them i was not a 100% believer. I dont know how one could be 100% from reading the books. So now you suggest it is a leap of faith for me, i must believe for it to work. Does one need tms for this? If i make a leap of faith that my problem will go away, and believe it 100% it should be just as effective. But is this what Sarnos work is all about? I dont think so.
You criticize my reading of the books and suggest that i dont understand, anc criticize journaling, that i havent even begun.
I did not understand journaling to be required, from the books, i learned it here. I was hoping to find more info on how to become active in this recovery, but so far, have found very little specific information on what to do. What i keep getting is "you gotta believe" thing, and people that believe you cannot hurt yourself by using your body wrong, lifting heavy weight in innapropriate manner etc. I would be interested in success stories including the revelations that lead to recovery, but in searching i find very little of that. The impression i get is that of a Sarno club-you gotta believe. Reminds me of the old "the will of Landru" star trek episode.
If my questions rocked the boat, upset the club, i apologize. If you dont want any discussion of theory or facts here, you may remove me.
that is your right. IF tms is only healed by a cult like belief without a method of application, i probably wont be around long anyway. In the meantime, i may ask questions, and search, and try to see if there is a valid method to remove the emotions that can cause such pain. And i will keep praying, its the right thing to do.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 10:13:01
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I'm sorry if you took my message as criticism; it was not my intent.
Belief is a necessary first step, but I am not talking about some kind of blind cult-like faith. You simply must accept the possibility that your symptoms have a psychological origin.
You are asking questions for which there is no answer. Everybody is different. The root emotional cause of TMS symptoms varies from individual to individual. There is no one method that can be applied to everybody. To get relief from TMS, you must look within yourself to try to find the emotions that your mind is so desperate to keep you from experiencing.
TMS is not a rational process. Relief does not come from intellectualizing. It comes from feeling. There is no magic approach guaranteed to work in everybody, although the same basic rules apply:
1. Repudiate all structural diagnoses.
2. Resume physical activity.
3. Try to feel as many "bad" emotions as you can, whenever you are aware of the symptoms. |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 10:23:35
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Dave,
elaborate a bit on number 3 if you would.
Thanks.
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 10:35:54
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| Aorta, If you are looking for success stories all you have to do is read thru the past year at previous posts. All the info is there. All of us on this web site came with questions and stories of pain and searching. Some were totally incapacitated or even in wheel chairs. Almost all of us are really improved or totally symptom free. We try not to talk about our exact area of pain because to do that is to dwell on the physical. Newcomers always do and they also want a time frame. They want to know exactly how long it will take them to heal. Everyone is different so to give everyone's healing time would be self-defeating. You say you do not have any anger, but your posts sounds very angry to me. You ask our help and when we tell you what works, you just want to argue. No one can convince you that Sarno works. You have to prove it to yourself. It doesn't sound as if you are open enough at this point to try. |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 11:20:07
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suzie,
i did look through some of the posts, i did see some successes.I dont see a lot of the work that lead to these successes. Perhaps i will find something a little more concrete to put me in the right direction.
I tried to state my feelings about tms, that is how i am feeling after reading the books and wondering how i go about this task of self examination. I did order another book someone suggested.
I guess i have some anger in me, mostly at this stinking affliction, though and how its ruining my life. Well its good that its seeping out, right? Dont want to keep it repressed in there.
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Is TMS killing me?
