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aorta
76 Posts |
 Posted - 06/19/2005 : 22:17:57
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Although I have read two Sarno books, and recognize a lot of myself in them, i cant convince myself its all from repressed emotions, and not a terrible disease or condition.
I have been in terrible health for over a year. It started with some chronic lower back pain, followed by something like colitis or chrons. Horrible bowel movements, nausea abdominal pain etc. As i admitedly stressed over this, a new catastrophe appeared. Pain in the shoulder blade area, and neuropathy in my arms, legs and feet.
Terrible burning on the bottoms of my feet.Then i had a definite stress period which resulted in panic attacks and depression. All of this practically ruined my business, and my family life. I also have a history of allergy, asthma, migraines, dizziness etc.
Testing for the intestines, included colonoscopy, small bowel series,
ultrasound of gallbladder, gastroscopy, all turned out negative to my shock considering the disgusting evidence. Blood tests including vitamin/minerals, lyme, etc. also negative. x rays of the spine, negative. All this testing causes me to panic more, but there is no end to the testing i could have for these conditions. I also have pounding heart sometimes for a half a day at a time. It pounds so hard that my body moves as i sit on a chair.
To say this has ruined my life is an understatement. I do feel like its going to kill me, probably soon.
I would like to believe its tms, but i cant. Being sick from having a bowel movement while your feet are burning is hard to dismiss.
Ive seen psychiatrists, and even they arent sure if its physical or not. Im taking a small dose antidepressant and xanax for the panic, reluctantly. Ive tried hypnosis, counseling, accupuncture, the dreaded subliminal audio cds and so on.
I see many people that have had this affliction or that, read the books, are convinced, and say they are getting better. HOW?
Just by convincing themselves its emotional? There is very little payoff in the books in my opinion. Yell at your mind, stop tricking me with these symptoms etc. Probably less than 1/500th of the books, deal with any type of treatment, just a couple of vague suggestions.
I suppose if you convince yourself anything is psychological it would help. So here i am in limbo, my life at stake. What do i do, how do i fight this?
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 02:55:47
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All of your symptoms sound like TMS to me.
What do you do? Read the book, do the journaling, write stuff down, and if necessary, find a good psychotherapist.
That's the jist of it really.
The reading is a great place to start. I read Mind Body Prescription but then read Sarno's other two books for good measure but you don't need to. I tend to need stuff beat into me to get it through. |
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Marilyn
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 03:09:38
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[quote]Originally posted by aorta
Although I have read two Sarno books, and recognize a lot of myself in them, i cant convince myself its all from repressed emotions, and not a terrible disease or condition."
It seems to me that the fact that you've had so many different and varied problems points to it being TMS rather than something physical, especially since all the tests were negative. If you had some actual physical disease or condition, it wouldn't jump all over your body as your pain and suffering has. Just my opinion, though.
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 03:24:12
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Aorta,
Sorry to hear that you are in what seems to be so much agony.
Although I have read two Sarno books, and recognize a lot of myself in them, i cant convince myself its all from repressed emotions, and not a terrible disease or condition.
I have been in terrible health for over a year.
The fact that you have read 2 of his books and are able to see a lot of yourself in them is a good start. The fact that you have had a multitude of tests and they have all been negative is also very good becoz you can now confidently rule out anything PHYSICAL. So what's left then is to acknowlodge in part (however difficult in may be for you) that there is a chance your symptoms may have an emotional component to it.
I would like to believe its tms, but i cant. Being sick from having a bowel movement while your feet are burning is hard to dismiss.
Why is it hard for you to believe that tms may be the cause for your physical pain when there is a huge amount of literature and evidence available (not only in Sarno but elsewhere too) which conclusively states that emotions and physical symptoms are linked.
To say this has ruined my life is an understatement. I do feel like its going to kill me, probably soon.
It is difficult for me to understand how you can say the above and not even give the tms theory a shot. I would at least give it a chance since you have already tried everything else to no avail.
There is very little payoff in the books in my opinion. Yell at your mind, stop tricking me with these symptoms etc. Probably less than 1/500th of the books, deal with any type of treatment, just a couple of vague suggestions.
Actually the steps he mentions may sound simple but they are not in any way vague.
Since you have tried everything and presumably spent a lot of money already why don't you further invest a little more in Fred Amir's book 'Rapd recovery from back & neck pain' (which isn't only about back and neck pain) and what I think is the best of the lot 'The Mind Body Prescription' video by Sarno. He outlines his steps to recovery very clearly and will leave no doubt or vagueness in your mind. Of course you can always try tomake an appointment to see Sarno if possible.
Most of us here I'm sure will be more than happy to help and assist in whatever way we can but you have to decide for yourself whether you are willing to explore this avenue with an open mind. I also suggest you read previous posts in this forum.
Hope this helps.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 05:42:36
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The fact that you have read 2 of his books and are able to see a lot of yourself in them is a good start. The fact that you have had a multitude of tests and they have all been negative is also very good becoz you can now confidently rule out anything PHYSICAL.
Thanks for the reply. To the above, not really. I havent scratched the surface of the testing i could have. I have not had mris, mainly due to panic, havent ruled out disc problems, or disease, some think the lyme tests are inaccurate, unfortunately i havent ruled out a lot of things, the tests can go on and on.
It is difficult for me to understand how you can say the above and not even give the tms theory a shot. I would at least give it a chance since you have already tried everything else to no avail.
I would give it a shot, but as of yet, i see very little to actually do to give it a shot, other than "believe" and if i could just believe, i would believe i was healing and that would probably help, if i truly believed.
I will try to pick up the other book, if anyone has particular stragedies i can use in the meantime, i would appreciate it.
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Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 07:34:22
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You are not going to be able to truley 'believe' just because you tell yourself to. You will have to see some results before you really 'know' it is TMS. So, keep reading the books to keep reinforcing in your mind that it could be psychological then sit down for 30 minutes every night before you go to bed and just start writing. Pick just about any topic of something that you think you might be angry about (childhood tramau, death of a loved one, children driving you crazy, life not turning out the way you thought it would, how pissed you are that you are sick or that people are not understanding how lousy you feel). Whatever the topic just use it as a starting place and let yourself ramble from there, focusing on any emotions that come up. You will probably end up very far from where you started but that's OK. Everyone says it seems to be the process of exploring the emotions, not what you actually uncover and I have found that to be very true.
I suggest doing your journaling right before bed because I noticed right away that even when I didn't seem to uncover anything important in my journaling, I started having very vivid nightmares. I like to think of this as my subconscious continuing what I started through my journaling while I slept. It seemed an efficient use of time to me. After a few weeks of this, I noticed my symptoms starting to move around just like people said they would. Since I knew there could be no physical explanation for this, this is when I finally started to really know TMS applied to me. That's what motivates you to continue and the more you do the more convinced you will be.
So start tonight and give yourself those 30 minutes. Do it no matter what- you don't have to 'believe' at the beginning for this to work. It's such a small thing to do but as we can all attest to, the results can be miraculous. Good luck an dkeep us posted.
Carolyn |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 07:46:20
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I will try Carolyn, i dont really feel angry about much though. I am more of a fear, worry person. Things like " i am afraid i will be hospitalized. afraid i will be put in a mental institution, afraid i will never feel well again, afraid i will miss time with my daughter, afraid i will have a heart attack, etc. etc. etc.
Are these what i am looking for?
Thanks, any more suggestions anyone???
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polly
127 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 08:21:45
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Aorta,
Your pain and symptoms sound awful. I feel for you.
The only thing I can offer is that fear, like you described, is a main cause of TMS. For me, fear very much equals pain.
You can continue on the road to more medical tests and I'm sure they will find something to attribute this to. If you read through the archives here, I'm positive you will find everything you're describing. Perhaps it will trigger what you need to see yourself as one of us.
This is not an easy concept. But, it does work. When something in your body is hurting, you have to ask what is emotionally wrong, not what is physically wrong. It sounds like you've had enough tests and you did come looking in this direction. Give it a try. It sounds so simple, but read the books and keep a journal.
Hope it's a better day today.
Polly |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 08:28:33
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Thanks Polly, havent had a good day in over a year.
To everyone, once i start a journal of my fears etc., do i just list them, elaborate on them in writing. Since they are the same basically do i just repeat them all the following days etc.
Im also concerned that dwelling on these things will make my mind worse, having panic and depression.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 08:38:33
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quote:
Originally posted by aorta
i dont really feel angry about much though.
Exactly. You don't feel it so it gets repressed and that leads to physical symptoms.
quote:
I am more of a fear, worry person. Things like " i am afraid i will be hospitalized. afraid i will be put in a mental institution, afraid i will never feel well again, afraid i will miss time with my daughter, afraid i will have a heart attack, etc. etc. etc.
Are these what i am looking for?
No, these feelings are attached to the symptoms. It is circular reasoning to blame these feelings for the TMS symptoms.
You must try your best to ignore the symptoms. Accept that they are a benign signal that you are not paying attention to something in your life. Accept that they exist to distract you from feeling anger, guilt, shame ... negative emotions that you don't dare to feel because they are too embarassing or painful.
Once you allow yourself to feel the anger, you should be able to strip away that layer of emotions and get down to what's really troubling you inside. Many people discover profound sadness when they cut through the anger ... sadness that has built up over many years but has never truly been felt.
You have had all the medical tests needed to rule out serious disease or condition. You must learn to accept that the symptoms are benign; you must learn to ignore them. As for getting at the root of your TMS symptoms, based on your posts here, it seems that you may need psychotherapy. |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 08:52:09
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Well now im totally confused. First of all I havent had all the tests necessary, ive barely scratched the surface considering the symptoms. Second, i have and do see a psychiatrist, and psychologist, with little help. "What does it mean to you?" type therapy.
But what confuses me, is your saying that my fears are not what im looking for. I really am not an angry person, im not angry about my parents, my life, my job, people i know. I am a worry person. And ive been afraid about disease most of my life. Afraid i wont get better, afraid the pain will return, feel inferior to others because of my afflictions, etc. If these constant worries are not responsible, i cant think of what is?
Since this started, my mind said things like, "afraid i will have a bowel attack somewhere, afraid of the colonoscopy procedure, afraid i will be hospitalized, afraid medicines wont cure me, afraid i will lose my business, afraid ill never enjoy life again, afraid they will put me in a mental institution, afraid of what medications will do to me, afraid i will be seperated from my daughter not having any fun with her, afraid my wife my leave me, afraid of dying of heart attack from fear. Prior to this condition, my mind may have said things like, "afraid i wont make enough money, unhappy about my appearance, dont feel healthy enough, afraid im not able to support myself and family, afraid i will be put in uncomfortable situations,
etc.
If these are not the right type of things, then Im not tms.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 11:23:10
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Aorta, you are really not grasping the TMS concept.
TMS is about unconscious rage. You cannot feel it. It is buried deep inside you, and it is caused by a variety of factors.
Picture that there is a child within you. The child does not want the responsibilities of life. The child just wants to be left alone. But your life is full of pressures, mostly those that you put on yourself. To be a good child to your parents. To be a good employee. To be a good spouse. To have other people like and respect you. To make money. To take care of your sick parents. To quiet your baby who doesn't stop crying. To put up with your antagonizing boss who is not as smart as you yet makes more money and gains more recognition...
When you think of your life, you may think that you are not an "angry person" but we all harbor negative emotions whether we like it or not, whether we know it or not, whether we accept it or not.
Most of the fears you describe are centered around your symptoms. These fears are symptoms in and of themselves. You are obsessed with your perceived health problems. This obsession is part of TMS!
The unconscious rage that causes TMS symptoms is typically based on low self-esteem.
You said: feel inferior to others because of my afflictions. Is it really because of your afflictions? Or maybe you have feelings of inferiority in general?
Take your list of fears and strip out all of those that are related to your symptoms or fear of disease. What's left?
You said: afraid I will lose my business. Explore it. Why are you afraid you will lose your business? Are you not good enough to make it successful? Not smart enough? In over your head? Spread too thin? Overwhelmed with responsibility?
You said: afraid I will be separated from my daughter ... afraid my wife will leave me ... afraid I won't make enough money ... not able to support myself and family. These are on the right track! Explore them further. |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 11:56:20
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aorta said:
"And ive been afraid about disease most of my life. Afraid i wont get better, afraid the pain will return, . . . afraid i will be hospitalized, afraid medicines wont cure me, afraid i will lose my business, afraid ill never enjoy life again, afraid they will put me in a mental institution, afraid of what medications will do to me, ..."
First, try to find a TMS trained doctor to help you solidify the diagnosis and read the books until you "get" it.
Second, these fears are the reason you continue to suffer physical symptoms. Your brain is doing such a bang up job of distracting you from your unconscious emotions, that you can't get past all tests you haven't done and all you do is focus on your symptoms and how they might get worse. As long as you keep thinking the way you are, your symptoms will continue to get worse. If you have TMS (which you probably do), the fact is, if you don't accept the TMS diagnosis and start normal physical activity as soon as you can, you won't die, but your misery might make you wish you were dead (I know because I felt that way not too long ago). Don't let it get that far. |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 12:39:38
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Dave,
I understand what you are saying but i still dont see "rage" as my nemesis. Its hard to remove my health fears, because they have been there since childhood. Since my therapists are worthless, ill leave the following childhood, early teen synopsis, maybe someone out there can help me understand better.
Mother was divorced. Lived alone with mother and grandmother.My bedroom was on the top floor, i was afraid, felt alone,terrible nightmares, no one could hear me there. Grandmother was a worry wart also, instilled fears in me. When the power went out, she would have us sit still in a dark room, she would be shaking and we would wait until my uncle came to put a fuse in. I lived in a ghetto type neighborhood of muscular punks. I was the little frail wimp. Therefore i had low self esteem about that, and was afraid to go places since i got pounced on a regular basis. No fatherly influence to strengthen me or teach me sports etc. Afraid to be away from my mother, going on early class trips etc. Had bad throat infections, chronic, neverending. Medicines never really helped. One time a doctor kept giving me penicillin, i got sicker, turned red, and he diagnosed it as scarlet fever increased the dose and i almost died.
I was of course allergic to penicillin. I was probably bed ridden for about three or 4 months.
My mother remarried, i liked the guy, we moved to the country. I was probably 10-12 at the time. Began having terrible allergies, took medicine that made me sick to my stomach and antihistamines that inflamed my prostate during early teens. The doctors then told me the antihistamines could have no effect on my prostate, now there is a warning on every box. Kept taking the antihistamines, now as a teen, chronic prostate problems for years. Hated going for the finger up the butt, began to have aversion to going to the doctors, almost pre panic syndrome, they werent going to help, they were going to do something painful. This continued, and to this day i dont take antihistamines or drink alcohol. In high school i was still insecure, very bad at sports, developed acne etc, and saw myself as a sickly geek compared to the "other more perfect students.
Eventually got a steady girlfriend, was worried about knocking her up as they say, she eventually told me during sex that she had been seeing someone else. Gradually my skills as a musician gave me a little confidence, and i was in rock bands etc, which gave me a place in the system. Allergies, and other health problems contiued.
Later on in my first house, a real dump, began having allergic reaction to something, got severe migraines, with a black eye. Again the docs couldnt help me, but gave me demmerol injections for months for pain. I was always terrified of job interviews, and had no idea what i was going to do for a living.
I will stop here. Although its not a pretty picture, wherein do i find my rage???
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 12:47:07
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Johnnyg,
yes the quote you quoted sums it up nicely. This is the way ive felt all my life. I have no faith in doctors, and it was usually a discovery on my own, or some little trick that saved me from a situation. Once it was menieres disease, so dizzy i couldnt function, sick for months, hardly eating. Saw many doctors, nothing.
By fluke one day it seemed like i couldnt hear out of one ear. sniffed neosynepherine drops back towards my eustachian tube, There was tremendous cracking, and bingo, all the intense dizziness stopped.
So yes, doctors have done little for me, ive had chronic problems all my life, and i am afraid of not getting better, terrified of hospitals etc. So you think this is the basis of tms for me?\
Dave seems to disagree. In any case where do i go with this?
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 12:58:54
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quote:
Originally posted by aorta
Dave,
I understand what you are saying but i still dont see "rage" as my nemesis.
I think you are not fully understanding the TMS concept. We're talking about unconscious rage. This is different from what you might consider as "rage." Your brain manufacturers TMS symptoms to prevent the unconscious rage from becoming conscious.
Clearly you had a very rough childhood, and TMS symptoms throughout your life (allergies, prostate problems, migraines). These recurring health problems were likely TMS all along.
You're right, it's not a pretty picture. You say you're not an angry person. Well, anyone in their right mind would be in a blind rage if forced to endure the type of upbringing you describe.
You have spent a lifetime repressing emotions. They came out in the form of physical symptoms.
The first thing you must do is understand the TMS concept. That means to read Dr. Sarno's Healing Back Pain and/or The Mindbody Prescription repeatedly until the concepts sink in.
Then you must learn to ignore the symptoms; to accept that they are benign.
Then you must find a way to get in touch with your repressed emotions. You say your therapists are "worthless" -- well maybe it's time to find a new therapist. If you truly understand and accept that you have TMS, therapy will have a completely different meaning this time around. It will be geared towards relieving your physical symptoms, which is clearly something you are striving for. |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 13:16:24
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Yes, it is the fear you decribed that is the main culprit here. Fear contributess to inner rage sort of like this. You are afraid, this makes you feel powerless, so your narcissitic self (unconscious) gets angry; your pain persists, so now you keep adding to your fear and you get angrier, etc.
Based on your synopsis, you have the makings for the Type "T" personality. Take that together with your lack of faith in doctors use it as a strong basis for repudiating any physical causes of your maladies. Everything you mention fits into TMS or an equivalent. Once you've done that, then fill in the gap with the knowledge that if there is no physical cause, then the cause must be psychological. I can't really describe what to do better than the steps in the book, but if the book doesn't do it for you, you might want to try the video tape series by Dr. S.
The rage is simply something you cannot feel--that is where you are getting stuck. Just accept that unconscious emotions are causing your physical symptoms and see if you feel a little better. |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 13:16:28
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You are right, i am having trouble understanding what makes tms, such a breakthrough. The idea that emotions and fears have contributed to disease or afflictions is not new. And where is the payoff? It seems some get relief from tms by just doing what i just did in my little biography, or writing a journal. I have talked to many shrinks about it, they listen, yes that has to have an effect. Now what?
I should also say that the rage word is throwing me, Sarno also mentions fears in particular, so Im not sure rage is what happened to me. Fear seems closer. Fear and low self esteem. So if i just fix all of that that happened since birth, my now present neuropathy, bowel problems etc will improve? I cant get too excited about that, how long will it take to fix, and how do you fix what youve been conditioned from birth. If i could fix all that, and if anyone could fix all the hurt and emotional problems in their life, there is no doubt they will be healthier. If there is a work strategy, id like to hear it, so far, ive got, write them down in a journal, BELIEVE that its causing your problem, yell at your subconsious mind to stop sending those trick symptoms, and thats about it.
I appreciate any help, but i still dont see the solution, and I dont intend to go to seminars at this point. |
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Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 13:24:39
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Aorta,
From your posts, it sounds like you are trying to talk yourself out of this being TMS- if you can't fit yourself exactly into the typical TMS sufferers shoes, then it doesn't apply to you. TMS is about repressed emotions. It doesn't have to be rage, it can be fear. But as Dave says, it is repressed emotion so you don't have to feel like you're an angry person to have repressed rage. In fact since so many of us are goodists we would never let the world see our anger.
With the list of horrible symptoms you have endured and the humiliating and painful tests doctors have put you through without helping you- how can you not be really pissed! You just have to get to these feelings. If I were you, I would start journaling tonight about your illness. Just ramble as thoughts come into your head. Feel your frustrations. Write down things that you would never tell anyone- things that make you feel small and petty for even feeling them (I do my journaling on the computer and password protect my file so I feel free to write whatever comes to mind). Admit that you're angry that the world isn't fair- allow yourself some 'why me' pity time. Admit that you have been angry with people in your life who may have grown tired of listening to your complaints. Admit htat you think doctors are a bunch of @#@$@% idiots who don't give you another thought once you walk out the door. Use profanity if it helps. Sometimes I'll write down something and dwell on it a moment just to see if it does ring true with me. I might write something like ' my mother is so wrapped up in her own life that she doesn't want to hear me complain anymore and even though I'm an adult that makes me feel so abandoned and vulnerable'. I'll think about it for a minute- try to feel abandoned and vulnerable and usually either I'll find out there is a big charge associated with that statement or there isn't. If there is, then that's the direction I'll take my journaling, if not I move on.
You can analyze whether or not this will work for you for a long time or you can just start journaling tonight. You have absolutely nothing to lose and I can almost guarantee you will be surprised at what you find out about yourself through this process . Beware, people's symptoms often get dramtically worse or change immediately after they begin this process. If yours do- rejoice- because it means you have figured out the problem and are on the right track.
Carolyn |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 13:30:33
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| Hey Aorta, I'm so sorry for the all the misery you are going through. I recognize your symptoms and fears all too well. I,too, thought tms was going to kill me. Of course,at the time,I didn't know anything about tms. I thought I must have some exotic disease because I had been tested for everything and was negative. I was hoping for any disease-at least I would know what was attacking me. I think the greatest problem you have to deal with is your fear and it sounds as if it is becoming very acute. The fear overloads your system with extreme stress which only exacerbates the tms symptoms. You end up having mini panic attacks. You must recognize you are focusing on the symptoms rather than your fear and stress. As Dave explained,the anger is unconscious. Your inner child is probably furious for the illness you are feeling. Along with Mala's book recommendation try "Taming Your Gremlin" by Rick Carson. It will help you realize that your mind is wandering and help you to focus on what is important. You must quit thinking physical. You forum name,Aorta, illustrates where your brain is. Take a deep breath and slow your mind down. Alot of us have been thru exactly what you are going thru. It sounds like you have been tested adnauseam and can find nothing wrong. Logic must tell you the tms concept is credible. |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 13:59:26
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aorta:
When I first read MBP, I took issue with the rage concept as you are. But the more I read the book and thought about what he is saying, I think the point is that the cause of the havoc-- fear, anger, sadness, whatever the emotion-- they ALL piss off the id (narcissistic self) and so they all create repressed rage. That's all. You don't have to find the specific emotion and you certaintly don't have to fix all your problems. It's only the knowledge of the process that effects the cure.
But as a precurser to getting better you have to accept the diagnosis or your symptoms will not improve. |
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Is TMS killing me?
