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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
 Posted - 07/06/2006 : 11:39:23
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Let me preface this post by saying that I realize that many people consider this to be a "support group" for TMS sufferers, and I understand and welcome this aspect of the forum. It is valuable to interact with other people who are going through or have been through the same thing, and can certainly help in recovery.
However, we should not lose sight of the fact that TMS is a psychogenic condition from which full recovery is possible. When used solely as a support group this forum can actually stunt recovery. Some people who suffer from TMS unconsciously need to perpetuate the symptoms. The distraction is essential. The pain has become a part of their personality, an inescapable aspect of their everyday life. For some people, life without the pain is unimaginable. What would they do with all that free time now spent focusing on the pain? What would they do if they were no longer part of that close knit community of fellow sufferers? What horrors would they be forced to face if they suddenly did not have the pain to distract them?
If you go to any public forum on fibromyalgia, this point is well illustrated. For lack of a better word, there is a sense of pride among the participants. They have found a group of people who, like themselves, are partly defined by the pain. These groups are not focused on treatment methods or potential cures. They are social groups bringing together people with a common "interest": living a life with chronic pain.
Participation in such a forum can become a symptom in and of itself. It can perpetuate the condition by providing an environment where it is "safe" to be suffering. A place where you can explain how bad you feel and get sugary responses like "hang in there" and "I feel your pain".
Again, I accept that support is a big part of what goes on here, and I have no problem with it. However, this forum was never intended as a support group. It was started by "Austin" Gary as a place to discuss Tension Myositis Syndrome. A place to talk about, and even debate, the scientific aspects of Dr. Sarno's theories. A place to discuss treatment methods and share success stories.
When it comes to providing support, I think there is a big difference between supporting someone suffering from TMS, and supporting someone in their recovery from TMS. Many people have come here looking for support, but then take offense when someone chooses to voice their opinion without censorship or sugar coating. Many people come here looking for advice, but then seem to ignore that advice when it is received. Many people come here simply to vent their frustration about the symptoms, and this is certainly understandable, but it is not the main purpose of this forum.
To treat TMS you really need to take a step back and be objective about yourself. Sometimes, it means not taking yourself so seriously. Sometimes, it means pausing before becoming angry or offended, and examining where those feelings are coming from.
On this forum, if you ask for opinions, you may get strongly worded blunt advice -- a form of "tough love". If you can't take it, don't solicit it, or simply ignore those replies that offend you. If you ask the same questions over and over, expect people to become frustrated when they feel that their replies are not being read or taken seriously. If you are simply looking for a place to remain in pain and share that pain with others, then this is probably not the place for you.
This message is not aimed at anyone in particular. There are many visitors over the years who for one reason or another do not get what they seek from this forum and move on. This is unavoidable. I hope that for the most part, this forum is a useful resource for people, and I enjoy keeping it going. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 11:58:04
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| The last thing in the world I want is to remain in pain, Dave. You have me all wrong in this respect. I much prefer my life when I am out there singing, painting, hiking, etc...Anyone who knows me would vouch for that. |
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jrnythpst
USA
134 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 12:38:51
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Well written, Dave. I am one of those people that sugar coating makes me more prone to stick with something I shouldn't (men etc). My best friend is blunt and too the point and above all else always honest with me which is why she is my best friend. I came here looking for hope, inspiration, and yes a little friendly butt kicking. I love Domenick, Tom, Darko, Susie, Art, and Dave's responses as they are too the point and really make me think. I am a newbie here so I am still mostly venting and sharing stories to get suggestions and hear other's stories on how they over came similar things. I need comadarie to be able to move forth on my own. I need the confidance that others have succesfully recovered and need their strength to kindle the embers that are to become my fire. I don't think any posting is intended to put down, degrade, or to point fingers at anyone. I don't mean to point you out Singer Artist and the only reason I am is because Dave was not directing his message soley to you. YOu are a bright, talented woman that isn't allowing herself to see how truely talented and intelligent you are. TMS is creating a shadow over you and you need to break out of this shadow so you can once again become the shining star that you and I know you still are inside. Anyway thanks for the tough love guys, I really do appreciate.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 12:56:52
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Dave X2
Karen, the last thing your conscious mind wants to do is remain in pain. But your subconscious or unconsciouus or whatever the hell it's called is your TMS mind and it despartely wants YOU to be in pain. That's what this is all about and that's why we are all here.
Your inner-child, TMS mind is playing YOU, by understanding the Good Doc's theory, you will learn to play IT.
Give yourself a day off, go for a swim, soak your head, let all the threads disappear into the stratosphere and get a fresh start on this.
You've been through a lot--give yourself a rest.
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 13:09:02
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| Thanx TT and ALi Cat for your kind and encouraging words...Dave I don't want there to be bad blood between us...I really like most of your replies to me, they have been extremely helpful...I will really miss that if I wind up leaving the forum...Today,however, all the stress on here and the stress i am going thru w/ my sister in NJ is making me feel either like i am on the verge of a major healing/breakthru or a major breakdown...Hope it's the former... |
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ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 13:35:38
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Dave, you make your points very well, as usual, and I appreciate the fact that you are there keeping us all on track from time to time.
I am reminded of Caroline Myss's book, Why People Don't Heal, and How they Can, which I recently read to try and understand why my wife can't accept the TMS diagnosis and thus continues stuck in her pain. She talks of "woundology," and how people get attached to their suffering as part of their personality, just as you said above. She also has some very good ideas about changes in attitude which are necessary to free up the energy for healing. Though not about TMS, many of them do seem relevant.
I typed up eight pages of quotations for my wife, but they did her no good because she was not able to accept them, at least not from me. The author's greatest emphasis was on the value of forgiveness, to free the energy for healing.
Ralph |
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jgluski
27 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 14:27:19
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Hey Dave,
I agree with your comments 100%. I have been trying to keep AWAY from this board as my symptoms have almost totally subsided.
I think that obsessing perpetuates the hypochondriac in me (and all of us) and doesn't let us move on. I find myself popping in here just to read about TMS even when I am not suffering.
I guess I am one of the lucky one (or unluckily due to my situation - however you want to see it) who was able to find my trigger and deal with it.
I find TMS to be a VERY interesting and almost disturbing psychological phenomenon. I think everyone who has it is trying to manage the symptoms and move on... At least I would hope so.
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jrnythpst
USA
134 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 14:27:30
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Ralph,
Your list of quotes intrigues me (but then again I am definitely a quote person, behind my desk for my clients I have the quote, "Courage is not the absense of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.") I know it might be impractical to post 8 pages on here but could you email them to me? I am very interested in reading the quotes, just make sure any mushy stuff you had to your wife is deleted first. LOL Or if you could give the highlights of them in a post, that would be awesome.
Thanks,
Ali
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
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Carole
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 17:45:02
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Hi Dave,
I've been looking around here for a few weeks, as I just got Sarno's new book "The Divided Mind" and wanted to see what others thought of it.
I like it. I can't really recall what article I read to prompt me to buy his new book, but since his 'Healing Back Pain' helped me so much I thought it would be interesting to read his new one.
Anyway, I used to post every now and then on the old forum that Austin Gary had and found it very helpful. I think that was 3-4 years ago.
Thank you so very much for keeping this Forum alive and kicking! It's been interesting to come back and read, lurk, etc.
Carole (aka Rinkey) |
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Indy
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 18:48:21
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Dave
Thanks, that needed to be said.
Indy |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 19:15:35
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| I suppose something good came out of all of this, so maybe my being the way I was and prompting Dave to write what he did had a positive outcome...or so I am hoping...I am fighting my inner child's inclination to still feel a bit indirectly 'ganged up on,' for lack of a better term...Because I know that although it was said that no one is being singled out..this whole thread was started as a reaction to me and my obsessive posting...Again, I am looking within and taking responsibility for my choices, good and bad...I am owning that I have misused this forum at times as yet another distraction..I have apologized for any stress or negativity anyone felt or experienced as a direct or indirect result of something I said...That is all that I can do...I am hoping this topic just gets dropped soon so we all can move on and discuss more productive things like getting well...I know that is what I need to do...I was surely living in the pain way too much on here...Again, I am sorry to anyone who felt drained by me... |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 19:27:40
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Hi Dave,
Well said.
Many well run forums have a "sticky" bit that will keep a post like this, a FAQ, at the top of the list. That way everybody who arrives is likely to see what the ground rules are.
To everyone else, I think you will see more of the long timers hang around here more and share with you all they have learned about beating TMS if we returned to a better balance of "debate" and "support group".
I'm up for a good debate.
As always, Dave, thanks for all you do to keep this place on the air.
Thanks, -Stryder
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Edited by - Stryder on 07/07/2006 08:25:21 |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 06:33:35
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| The woundology is an interesting topic. A few years ago when I first realized I had TMS and wanted to tell the world and heal the world, I would go on back pain forums and talk about Sarno. People got so red hot angry at me and suggested I was getting some sort of financial kickback from promoting Sarno (even tho he was already on the best seller with 2-3 books!). Basically they didn't want to even acknowledge that healing was a possibility, they loved talking about how their pain ruined their lives, they could talk meds all day, and they weren't determined to heal....they were determined to belong to a group of non healers and thats exactly what they manifested into their lives |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 09:55:42
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Dave,
you're the man !
fully agree 100% with you.
P. |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 10:24:07
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Good post Dave. I've been to other boards, not TMS related, but in general people support each other that's not always in the best interest of the person asking questions or for help.
Statements to others like "it will be ok" is not always good as it will not be ok unless one gets off their a$$ and takes accountability for their well being. Especially with something like TMS where the only person that can make it go away is the sufferer. There is no pill, no surgery that can take it away. Knowledge is the cure. As I tell people for other things, and it seems fitting for TMS, you are the lock and the key.
Regards
Jay |
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j0yful
17 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 16:28:29
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| Hear. Hear. More solution and less rationalization and enabling in the form of "support". |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 05:34:28
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| Dave's message is important. We are here to get info on TMS and all the things that may help us via reading others' postings. It is not for psychoanalysis; that should reside in our therapists' offices or in our support of friends or family. Too much obsessing on one's symptomology is not good for the person posting or the reader of those posts. There is nothing wrong with asking for help but when we spend too little time on taking a step away and working the ideas Sarno suggests, then we are, as Dave put it, a sympathetic venting place instead of a place to gain tips and encouragement. If offense should be taken by anyone by Dave's message then that indicates to me that there is denial in a person's approach to embracing TMS. To get well we must overcome our knee-jerk defenses and try to hear the messages for their content, not their tone or what our paranoid tendencies would like us to obsess on. Staying focused and hearing from those new and those who I call the "veterans" on this board has helped me a lot. |
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Andrew2000
40 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 19:26:33
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"I'm really glad to have found a place where people have healed & are sharing their success with those of us still on our way. Focusing on how to change our minds & not on our symptoms."
I too continue to check back to the forum from time to time -- there's been a lot of interesting "dialogue" as of late, some of which seems to have crossed the line to a more personal nature, but so be it -- for better or worse ... we all learn from each other.
I just wanted to comment on something someone posted recently about not underestimating the effect of everyday stress on TMS (vs. just attributing TMS mainly to unconscious rage of which we may not be aware) ...
I'm now symptom free of foot problems which I was experiencing for well over a year (during which time I was also re-evaluating my job, career choices, dealing with fear of change -- and so forth) ...
I took the plunge, quit my job, found a new one, and although I'm working longer hours and commuting longer distances, I'm happier -- and by some sort of (miracle?) the pain has subsided. Completely.
I've read all of Sarno's books ... and agree that unconscious rage contributes to TMS -- but in my experience, there's a lot to be said for taking a long hard look at what our daily lives are all about -- and how stress affects the way we feel physically -- day in and day out.
Confronting and lowering the stress levels I was feeling helped eradicate the physical pain.
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 20:00:47
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Hi Andrew,
Just wanted to say I agree with you...I think my current life pressures contribute as much or more to my TMS then my past unconscious rage...And b4 this particular acute attack, for weeks i was stressing about things in my current life situation...I think the build up just got to be too much...
~Karen |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 20:53:23
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It's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.
Is stress a cause, or a symptom itself?
Why were you stressed about your old job? The child inside you was in a blind rage that you were forced to endure it. That produced the pain, and the stress.
For some people TMS can boil down to simply "being forced to do something you'd really rather not do." The child inside is lazy and selfish, wants to be left alone, wants to be taken care of. The child gets angry when these needs are thwarted by responsibilities like being stuck in a bad job, or a bad relationship, or having to take care of a sick family member, or having to do everything perfectly, or having to be liked by everyone, or . . . the list goes on and on. All those things cause stress. One could say the stress causes TMS, or the TMS causes stress  |
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What this 
