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Milos
Slovenia
10 Posts |
 Posted - 05/02/2005 : 09:59:10
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My dear sufferer fellows, I will appreciate any experience anybody has like mine one. Beeing an electronic engineer and before 1989 member of the managing executive board of a big Electronic company, I get retired from my job 16 years ago (now I am 77). During last 2 years before retirement, the company bussiness get worse, internal problems and disharmony, bad bussiness policy and similar things made the job more and more frustrating and anxious. Shortly before the retirement, I began to feel weak back-pain, which continued all time up to now (more then 18 years !), beeing more and more worse, with short good times, but also with sudden onsets of terrible pain which is blocking almost all my movement for some days.
It is needless to explain that I tried everything existent in the world to get relief: visiting orthopedist, reumatologist, X-ray, CT, MRI, chiropractic, all kind of physical therapies, spa's and so on, many times. And without long-term improvement. All diagnostics are focused on degeneration symptoms in the spine vertebrae's and facet joints L4-L5, with no tumors or other heavy structural problems.
One month ago I read the Slovenian translation of Dr.Sarno's book »Healing Back Pain«, translated from an Slovenian enthusiast, to whom just reading the book miracolously eliminated his back pain. I then read also other Dr.Sarno's books and his lectures on video tape, and, finding myself beeing present »on almost every page«, I am now sure, that I have TMS and I should go trough the programme Dr.Sarno prescribes.
Now I am following Dr.Sarno's instructions very carefully, trying to find out what kind of unconsious rages are responsible for my pain. I am also trying to psychologically overcome my pain, which is especially bad in the morning, before I get from bed. During the day, pain comes when I begin walking and I have the feeling to »beeing punished« with extra pain the next day after walking a little bit more then just 10 to 15 minutes. And now, after 4 weeks, I can't register any significant relief yet. To make concentration to psychologic items easier, I am taking Tramal as pain-killer. Without it, this is almost impossible, the pain beeing too strong.
Obviously, following the TMS theory, there must be a big or heavy rage, accumulating during the last years of my job and then adding anger or rage from some events during last years in retirement, which of I am not aware. I always estimated myself as a realistic and pragmatic man, not very emotional, but responsible and settled; perhaps quite sensitive to critics, beeing persuaded I am always doing my best !
So my question, asking for experience exchange is:
Is then possible, that after so many years the unconscious rage, created during last years of unsatisfactory job (more then 17 years ago !), is it still active creating pain again and again ? And is it possible, that to this rage, other recently creating unconscious anger from daily events (beeing more or less unsatisfied with politics, with floods of stupid TV-advertissements, with ultramodern recent music and so on) are constantly added, rising the cumulate level of rage ? I don't feel I am anyway frustrated and I am conscious thinking that such daily unpleasent events are of little importance regarding my pain. Is this wrong ?
Am I too impatient regarding the time dealing with Dr.Sarno's treatment ? Has anybody some experience in such long-term TMS-treatment, beeing successful in the combat with very old generated rages, for which he thought are by far quit ?
I am from Slovenia, a small country between Austria and Italy, so I apologize for my imperfect English and for (too)long writing as well. I will appreciate any answer and comment. Thank you !
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2005 : 11:37:37
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Zivjo,Milos !
Your English is a lot better than most Americans!
quote:
I am also trying to psychologically overcome my pain, which is especially bad in the morning, before I get from bed. During the day, pain comes when I begin walking and I have the feeling to »beeing punished« with extra pain the next day after walking a little bit more then just 10 to 15 minutes -Milos
After reading your story I couldn't help but wonder if a lot of the problems you speak of are ingrained by conditioning.It is hard for all of us as clear thinking adults to realize how easily we are conditioned....16 years is a long time to have patterns ingrained.
You are certainly on the right track when you said: quote:
Obviously, following the TMS theory, there must be a big or heavy rage, accumulating during the last years of my job and then adding anger or rage from some events during last years in retirement, which of I am not aware. I always estimated myself as a realistic and pragmatic man, not very emotional, but responsible and settled; perhaps quite sensitive to critics, beeing persuaded I am always doing my best !
That is the TMS personality in a nutshell...realistic,pragmatic,responsible but sensitive to criticism...probably because we are our own worst critics and don't want to hear it from others.
Don't be discouraged about the time and your progress.You are doing the program the same way we all did...thinking psychologically,going back to regular activity and refuting(not believing) the stuctural diagnosis.
I'm sure the anger at your work before retirement played a part in the onset of your pain and that is important to evaluate and address,but could it be possible that you are angry about being retired? Some very conscientious people have a hard time NOT working...there is a moral imperative deep inside of them to always be doing something...thay don't know how to relax...maybe that is a part of your make-up.
Also,there are other factors to always be evaluated...Family,friends,relationships..these are important in generating suppressed rage.
In fact,after reading hundreds of posts,talking to other TMSers and reading a lot of books,I have broke TMS causes down into 3 main groups.
#1. Childhood-...the type of things regarding your upbringing and childhood ...angers at parents,siblings,family..abuse? Neglect?...the development of our future personality and orientations
#2.The present...the things that are going on right now in your life...work,friends,family,pressure,religious beliefs,love life,etc. etc.
#3. The "little" stuff...traffic,loud music(Rap music drives me bonkers)Obnoxious neighbors,barking dogs,gangs, FEAR ,spiraling costs,NEWS(flood,terrorism,tsunamis) Cold,heat.......all of these "little" annoyances add up to a more stressed out and ANGRY population
These 3 things to me are the areas I have to keep tabs on lest TMS sneak up on me again.#1 is the Cup,and #'s 2 and 3 are what make it overflow....into TMS.
I think you are definitely on the right track and will beat TMS ....just be patient and keep doing what you are doing...Fear not,for all of us have gone through a period of frustration and doubting and feeling stuck.You will win.
Keep posting here and discussing your treatment with the rest of us....you will probably find a lot of the experiences you are having are similar to many of our own.
Welcome and Dober dan!
Peace
Baseball65 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2005 : 13:38:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Milos
Now I am following Dr.Sarno's instructions very carefully, trying to find out what kind of unconsious rages are responsible for my pain.
Keep in mind that trying is the most important part. Whenever you are aware of the pain, write down potential sources of rage in your life (or read what you have written before). It is not essential (or even possible, really) to actually figure out the precise source of the rage. It is the act of shifting your thoughts from the physical to the psychological that will eventually break the cycle.
quote:
I am also trying to psychologically overcome my pain, which is especially bad in the morning, before I get from bed. During the day, pain comes when I begin walking and I have the feeling to »beeing punished« with extra pain the next day after walking a little bit more then just 10 to 15 minutes.
All of this is conditioning and it is one of the most important aspects of TMS (perhaps more important than the rage itself). The pain is worse in the morning simply because you have become accustomed to it and you expect it. Pain occurs after walking because you expect it, and also because your mind is trying very hard to make you believe that walking is causing pain. In fact, it's not the walking -- it's that you are conditioned to experience pain.
quote:
And now, after 4 weeks, I can't register any significant relief yet. To make concentration to psychologic items easier, I am taking Tramal as pain-killer. Without it, this is almost impossible, the pain beeing too strong.
Taking a pain killer is fine if you need it. 4 weeks is really not enough time. Many people experience some immediate relief upon reading the book, but then the pain returns and they must fight for weeks or months before experiencing significant relief. For me it was at least 6 months, during which time I had some serious flare-ups of pain.
It is important not to try to track your progress. Treatment is a long-term process; a fundamental change in the way you think and react to pain. Just accept that the pain is benign; there is no structural cause. Try never to doubt this, regardless of how bad the pain gets. Just keep doing the work, every day, and the results will come.
quote:
Obviously, following the TMS theory, there must be a big or heavy rage, accumulating during the last years of my job and then adding anger or rage from some events during last years in retirement, which of I am not aware. I always estimated myself as a realistic and pragmatic man, not very emotional, but responsible and settled; perhaps quite sensitive to critics, beeing persuaded I am always doing my best !
Those are exactly the traits that are common in TMS-prone people.
I think that maybe you need to focus less on the actual sources of the rage, and more on the reconditioning process. It is certainly possible that your retirement is a great source of rage, and you should explore that. Often the root of TMS pain is low self-esteem, and the events leading up to your retirement probably placed great internal pressure on you. Perhaps you still harbor anger against the individuals who caused the frustration and anxiety at your job, and forced you to leave on bad terms.
Anger from daily events can contribute to the rage, but it is not the main source. The main source is pressure from within: pressure you place on yourself to live up to certain expectations. Dr. Sarno points out that retirement, and aging in general, is a great source of rage: facing your own mortality, feeling that you are not being a productive member of society, etc.
So, rather than look for external sources of the rage, look within yourself. You will find certain sources of rage that you have never considered before, because those feelings have been repressed for many years. With TMS, it's the things you don't realize are bothering you that are the main cause of the pain. |
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Allan
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2005 : 17:20:24
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Milos.
First of all don't worry about your English. Your message is coming through clearly.
Secondly, if it is any help to you, I was 70 when I first had TMS pain. The pain was in by back and legs.
So, TMS can attack at any age.
Be of good cheer.
You can recover. Others have. You can also. This forum is an excelent resource.
Allan. |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2005 : 20:51:41
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Dear Milos,
I just want to say hi and welcome you to the TMS forum. I hope it helps you as much as it has myself and others. Sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck to you!
Laura
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Milos
Slovenia
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2005 : 01:54:58
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Dear Baseball65,
I appreciate very much your kind message; it is really nice discussing with others having similar problems and more experience regarding TMS.
As you mentioned, I am convinced too that my main problem is how to overcome conditioning and how to break this terrible magic circle: expectation of pain – real onset of pain in exact, known conditions (certain time, certain activity etc) – more fear of pain and so the next cycle is starting ! My pain is almost becoming to be a unevitable daily agenda with prediction of its intensity, duration etc. Now I am searching for any psychological measures trying to break this cycle – and I am happy for joining TMS Help Forum and getting advices from TMS community, which can significantly contribute to this process.
It is also calming that I sholdn't be impatient after 4 weeks of program practice, if there aren't much relief of the pain yet. I understand that almost 2 decades of pain (and rage, too) there is a lot of things to be rooted out and this is a hard process, especially if it is practicized on an old individual with stabilized life habits long time ago !
It is also ecouraging all replies told me that I am on the right way and the improvement will come, sooner or later.
Thank you in hvala lepa, my dear Baseball65 !
Milos
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Edited by - Milos on 05/03/2005 06:42:05 |
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Milos
Slovenia
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2005 : 07:34:25
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Dear Dave,
Thank you very much for your reply. As I said in the re-reply to Baseball65, I am now convinced that conditioning is the most important aspect of TMS, as you emphasize in your reply. But according to this, I recognize that it is extremely difficult to break the magic circle between conditioned pain and the following fear of next pain in same conditions.
I also accept that, unconscious, there is some anger or rage about the fact that some unpleasant time is coming: more decay, dependency of others, limitated movability and other things, unevitable connected with aging. Fortunately, me and my wife are enough materially provided for such times, so there is nothing to be really concerned with (at least not in the conscious mind !). I will also accept your advise to think about the individuals who caused frustration in the last time before my retirement.
I very appreciate your advise and will be happy to hear (read) about you soon again.
Thank you and best regards
Milos
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Milos
Slovenia
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2005 : 07:50:24
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Dear Allan,
It was very helpful for me to hear from you that recovering from TMS is also effective in the age more then 70 and so I have good chances to get relief !
May I ask you – for how long did you practicizing the Dr.Sarno's treatment, or better- how much time was passing before the pain was over (all almost over) ? I mean that the process is a bit slower at our age, especially if one is suffering TMS-pain for 15 years or more. What is your experience about the timing ? I know that I shouldn't be impatient and 1 month is surely to little.
Thank you very much for your reply and I am hoping to hear more from you.
Best regards
Milos
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Milos
Slovenia
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2005 : 08:14:41
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Dear Laura,
Thank you very much for your reply. It is really nice to be, over a half of world, a member of this TMS-community and sharing experiences, philosophies, doubts and hopes regarding TMS-troubles. Thanks for your welcome and good wishes ! It is very encouraging that all replies are mentioning that I am on the right way to relief my TMS-pain.
Thank you and good luck !
Milos
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n/a
36 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 13:17:01
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| Your subconscious does not have any concept of time. What happened 60 years ago or 5 minutes ago are all the same. So you have begin from your youth and go from there |
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Milos
Slovenia
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2005 : 13:14:40
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Your subconscious does not have any concept of time. What happened 60 years ago or 5 minutes ago are all the same. So you have begin from your youth and go from there
Yes, I agree completely. In my next post "Some interesting phenomena", I try to explain the effects I had reviving the terrible events I experienced during WW II, beeing almost a kid yet. That effect indicated clearly that such long ago reminiscences has a big role in my TMS-back pain.
Thanks for your remark.
Milos
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2005 : 21:13:43
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Dave wrote: Just accept that the pain is benign...
I'm going to hold onto that with all my might...It's scary as hell because there's always the chance one is making things worse..if it feels worse, it's terribly difficult to believe that it's not worse, structurally speaking..
As I've posted elsewhere on this board, I've had truly miraculous results applying these ideas to my back..It just instantly rang true for me...But athletic injuries seem different in kind somehow...I hurt my hamstring initially doing leg curls to strengthen it...It's a huge leap of faith to believe that I didn't actually hurt the thing, structrually speaking..
But, it's been six months, and as Dr Sarno writes, broken bones heal in a matter of weeks..This was a simple strain..How could it not have healed by now? When I ask myself that, the TMS theory gets a little easier to hold to..
I will accept that the pain is benign...I will accept that the pain is benign...
Etc.
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A superannuated TMS
