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Caroline
USA
55 Posts |
 Posted - 04/26/2005 : 11:54:35
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Hi everybody,
I was in Europe visiting my mom as I do once a year and this time all hell broke loose because I just can't stand her anymore and I basically told her so. This is hard for me to say but when I look at her these days, I feel no love, no tenderness. Just contempt and sometimes outright hatred. I realize this must creates considerable guilt in my unconscious but I just don't know what to do about it. Should I be trying to "relive" childhood feelings, should I just accept that I hate my mother and try to move on?. Does anybody else out there has difficulty dealing with feelings of hatred towards a parent? I am convinced this is what is causing my TMS but I feel stuck in the angry child mode and don't know what to do to free myself. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Caroline
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 12:38:00
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Caroline,
A therapist once told me that "hate" is just anger, to an extreme. You hate her, I know (been there, done that) but you are probably extremely angry at her. What was your childhood like? Can you share some details? Did you have a horrible relationship with her when you were growing up? Did all this just recently happen and was there a trigger that started the feelings you have? Try journaling your thoughts about your mother and see what comes up. Sometimes, I just start writing and the thoughts just seem to start spilling out, one after another. All kinds of stuff comes up.
What I have found to be useful for me with people that I'm feeling "hate" towards is that I change my perspective to one of "feeling sorry for" that person instead. Changing your perspective really helps. Like, for example, my in-laws. They drive me bonkers. My father-in-law says some really rude, stupid, and insulting things. My kids were always bothered by him and one day I said "you just need to laugh at Papa." They changed their perspective and he didn't bother them so much anymore. Now, he's getting even worse and I think the early signs of dementia and/or Parkinsons are starting with him. We all just sort of feel sorry for him.
Have you ever read "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff?" It's a great book, one which I highly recommend. Dr. Carlson gives 100 suggestions to a better life. In one chapter, he writes "Imagine the people in your life as tiny infants and as one hundred year old adults." He writes "Think of someone who truly irritates you, who makes you feel angry. Now, close your eyes and try to imagine this person as a tiny infant. See their tiny little features and their innocent little eyes. Know that babies can't help but make mistakes and each of us was, at one time, a little infant. Now, roll forward the clock one hundred years. See the same person as a very old person who is about to die. Look at their worn-out eyes and their soft smile, which suggests a bit of wisdom and the admission of mistakes made. Know that each of us will be one hudred years old, alive or dead, before too many decades go by."
You can't completely make your Mom go away. I know, I've tried. I've had knock down drag out fights with my parents, my mother in particular, and I've told them I never wanted to see them again. In one letter, years ago, I told my parents I wanted to "divorce" myself from them and my family. Since then, we have healed the wounds and we have tried to change the things that were bad. Are there still bad things? There sure are. There are many. I limit my time with my parents (easy to do because they are in Michigan and I'm in California). I tell them now when they do things that bother me, instead of holding onto it and letting it make me physically sick. (I wish I could use this technique on my in-laws -- I'm working on it!). Perhaps when you visit your Mom you could see her in small doses and perhaps you can change your perspective about her. It worked for me, and I thought my situation was hopeless. It may work for you too.
Someone once told me "you get the parents you were meant to get." I truly believe that we live several different lives and that in each lifetime, we are meant to learn something. See what you can learn from this relationship, the one with your mother. If I were to have chosen parents, I seriously would not have chosen the ones I have. My parents embarrass me constantly, they don't listen to half of what I say (nor do they care), and my parents are a little strange to say the least. But recently, I have tried to look at their redeaming qualities and there are some. Although they don't always show it, I know they love me, as best as they know how. They try not to meddle in my life too much (like my in-laws do) and they show respect by giving me my space when they come to visit me. Sometimes you have to look hard to find the good, but it's there. Maybe it's the same with your Mom. Keep looking and maybe you'll come up with some redeaming qualities that you didn't see before.
If you simply cannot find anything good about your mother, step back from the relationship and take a break. I didn't talk to my parents for over a year. I found that in that time I missed them very much and for all the aggravation, I still wanted a relationship. Maybe it will be that way with you too.
Good luck, Caroline.
Laura
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Caroline
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 15:51:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Laura
What was your childhood like? Can you share some details? Did you have a horrible relationship with her when you were growing up?
Thank you Laura for taking the time to write this long response. It helps to know that I am not alone dealing with these painful feelings. I have not had a good relationship wiht my mom in 25 years. When I was a child, I think I was very attached to her and even had some fears of abandonment. She and my father went out a lot so I was left with my little brother and a babysitter and cried myself to sleep on my mom's pillow.
Things changed when I was a teenager. My mother was and still is extremely controlling. When things don't go her way, she yells and screams and says terrible, hurtful things to people. So my father, brother and I were always walking on eggs trying to avoid upsetting her. A psychologist once told me my mother had a borderline personality disorder and I think she was right. Part of me thinks she slowly killed my father (he dies of cancer a few years ago and I know he was extremely unhappy with her).
The problem is that knowing this does not seem to be enough to free me from the rage and the pain. The kind of anger I feel has to do with not being allowed to be myself, have my own tastes, make my own decisions. For example, my mom cannot accept that I have different beliefs, different tastes in food or clothes, different opinions about people, etc. One of her favorite things to do is sit in front of the TV (which is on all day) and hurl insults at people being portrayed in the news. I finally had it with her last week and told her "you hate absolutely everybody, what is wrong with you"? That of course resulted in a huge blowout with my mom screaming insults at me and ranting for a good hour, then refusing to speak to me util I left for the US the next day.
I of course have been feeling like crap ever since and my PMS pain is back with a vengeance! |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 16:24:42
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Caroline,
I hear you, believe me. All my life you know what my Mom said about my taste? Any time I expressed an opinion about liking something she said "Your taste is in your mouth." If I fell or banged into something she would say "Nice play, Ox." My Dad was no different, but not to the degree of cruelty she was. His favorite thing to say to me, however, was "you are as useless as tits on a boar hog." (He was raised on a farm - I guess that was an expression he heard growing up.) They berated me at every chance they could. I've held onto it for so long that I'm trying awfully hard to just get rid of it all. It only hurts me to keep carrying it around and thinking about it.
Carolyn Myss (if you've never read her books you should, especially Why People Don't Heal and How They Can) and Louise Hay both say that it is important to forgive everyone that has ever wronged you, for your own benefit not for theirs. You don't have to forget, you just have to forgive. I know it's hard, trust me. I think of stuff my folks did all the time that was bad. But I have two choices; hold onto it and let it eat me up inside or forgive them for their ignorance. I'll bet your Mom had the same kind of parents that she is. She doesn't even know any different. That is why it's important to break the cycle of hatred, as difficult as that is. I think you should really just take a "break" from your Mom for awhile. Tell her you need time to think about things and you need some space. I could be way off here. Perhaps your best bet is to sever all ties with your Mom forever. People do it all the time. The thing is, when you do that it eats you up inside. I know, since I've tried it a few times. Maybe after a break you can go back into it with a clear head and set some ground rules for your Mom of what you will or will not tolerate. I wouldn't tolerate being around someone "ranting" for an hour either.
Keep me posted on things, whatever your decision. You have to do what's best for your health, because your life depends on it. Your TMS isn't going to get any better unless you take control of this and do what is right for you. Good luck, Caroline.
Laura
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 17:41:05
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I have rage towards my mother as well. In a nutshell, she is a weak person who let her husband beat her to a bloody pulp as well as fight her children the way you would fight a man in a bar room brawl. That may be why I have issues with her, but there's so much more to it. My sister says, you have to look at the source, look at how mentally deprived she is, she was not born with a full deck. She's really dense, naive, and says inappropriate things. Everyone else in my family let's it "roll off their back." Why can't I? Not sure why. I'm the youngest of eight kids. I am now starting a new therapist to figure it all out. I am hoping it will bring some light to my anger because she is not in great health and she won't live twenty more years. I fear she'll die and I will regret not accepting her with her faults. So I am wondering how to come to accept her and as Laura said, feel kinda sorry for her instead because she was not born with the mental health I was. She was born with a few missing pieces in the brain puzzle. I am not there yet but I am hoping to start to see her for what she is, which is not a witch or a bad mother, just a really pathetic, weak human being.
Mary |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 02:25:11
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I've had negative feelings towards my mother for as long as I can remember. I've felt anger, rage, dislike, guilt, even contempt. She's not a bad person, she is never deliberately cruel - but she has always been so damned helpless. Looking back, my late father's life was restricted and controlled by my mother's helplessness.
Had he been less dutiful, he would have left her when he still had time to make more of his life.
Anyway - something that drove me nuts yesterday - I was driving her to the shops when we passed a family friend and his wife driving in the opposite direction. The man is a nurse. My mother asked me if I remembered the day four years ago when my father was taken into hospital and how John had come round and sorted it all out. She's phoned him and he'd come round and dealt with it.
My father had dementia, couldn't walk, eat or drink. Overnight, he had begun to fail. He wouldn't allow the ambulance crew to take him. One of them was extremely rude and insulting. Doctors were called and after three different doctors had attended, and he had been sectioned, a second crew came and he was taken forcibly.
The thing was, it wasn't John she had phoned - it was me - she had blanked out the fact that I was there that day - she even said that she doesn't know what she would have done without John that day.
She then went on to tell me about how John had sent a letter of complaint about the horrible paramedic and he was disciplined. Again - it was me (I still check every ambulance I pass on the road to check if he is driving - he never has been - hopefully, he no longer gets the chance to metaphorically kick people when they are down)
The thing was, I just let my mother tell me all about the wonderful John and only when she had finished did I say that it was me. She said that's not how she remembers it. She has no conception af how difficult that time was for me. My father died two weeks later; she wouldn't meet with the doctors to discuss whether he be resucitated if his heat failed. I had to make that decision on her behalf because she couldn't face it. She wasn't even there when he died. She had had to be taken home because she was 'dizzy and stressed'. Only I was there.
I keep telling my self that I have dealt successfully with these feelings I have for my mother, but I haven't really. I have had to see that every eventuality is covered before I go off on vacation to Pennsylvania tomorrow.
My husband just says that she is an old lady and I need to be patient with her, but she has never done anything for anybody - my father did it all. He had to be father and mother to my brother and I.
Reading through my post, I sound like a spoiled child - but it's done me good to vent this.
I wish I could ive you some pointers to dealing with this, Caroline - one thing I will say, though. I don't get back pain or other physical manifestations when she makes me feel like this - I really do feel angry - the guilt has well and truly gone
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Caroline
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 10:25:54
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Thank you very much for all your responses. I think I agree that once you get over the guilt about feelings of rage and understand why your mother acts the way she does, it is easier to move on. My problem is I thought I had done that years ago. I moved to the US in 1982 in part to get away from her and I eventually was able to see her as she was: a rather sad person with serious psychological problems. And yet, I started developing TMS-like symptoms only 5 years ago, around the time of my father's death. Am I now in conflict wiht the fact that she is dependent on me? Do I blame her for myfather's death? Somehow telling myself she is not responsible for her acts does not seem to work anymore. It's almost as if i have to settle a score with her. And yet, I am aware that it would be pointless and even cruel at her age.
Do you think journalling helps? I wrote things in my journal when I was staying at my mom's but it has not done anything to relieve either my mental or physical pain. Maybe I am just making too much of this and the cause of my TMS is somwhere else... |
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ssjs
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 14:11:39
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I do not believe that you have to forgive. You do have to come to terms with things, but forgive? I think forgiving someone who neglected me would only cause me more and more pain!
With my therapist I have certainly worked things out enough to be pain free...but I will always mourn the person I could have been if I had the guidance of a good parent and not the sad neglectful person that my mom was.
I also do not believe that I got the parent I was supposed to. Does that mean that children who are beaten and abused were suppossed to suffer that way?
If we get the parents we are suppossed to, then there is no reason to work to heal ourselves. This was what our lives were supposed to be.
Sure you can say that having crummy parents can make us strong wonderful better people, but we can become great without suffering too.
Well i guess that this has hit a nerve in me...but I suffered....and it was certainly not because I got the parents I should have...I should have had much better parents! My parents stunk.
Do I forgive them? No. Do I understand that they had their own problems and "couldn't have done any better?' Well, kind of. but When I saw myself becoming a similar parent, I RAN to a therapist to change. Maybe they didn't have the opportunity to do that...but I still am mad at them.
One pity is that when my mom died I barely cared. And 10 years later, I do not miss her, and I only miss my dad a bit. Although I did have a brief backache when she died. But mostly because I was very sad that I WASN'T SAD!!!!
Thank goodness for therapy. My kids love me, my husband loves me, I love them, and my son is just graduating from college.
Perfect? Far from it, but I know where I stand (mostly) with my feelings, and feel no guilt about my feelings. Where I once hated my mom, I now only feel pity for the sad life she led.
I do not hate her, But I do not forgive her.
Sandy |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 14:11:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Caroline
It's almost as if i have to settle a score with her. And yet, I am aware that it would be pointless and even cruel at her age.
Caroline- I could be wrong on this one but it seems to me you have to find a good therapist and get out the raw emotions of anger that you have buried in your subconscious. A lot of the anger you feel and have expressed in this post is conscious anger. You've probably got intense repressed stuff that is the true cause of your TMS. You don't need to confront your mom directly and probably shouldn't. When you said you were bonded to your mother and think that you have issues with abandonment that kind of struck a cord with my situation and although no two cases are alike there are often similarities.
As children we have basic needs. We must matter to our parents and we must have parents that are ok- even when they are not ok. We will fantasize a mother that is ok. The more we are abused (shamed, abandoned etc) the more we get bonded to the abuse. When this happens we are forced to repress negative feelings such as anger and hatred in order to survive. I think you have to start looking at your TMS symptoms from the childs perspective- which is a whole lot different then the adult perspective.
Follow your gut Caroline. If it says that you have a score to settle with your mother- listen to that feeling and go with it. |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 03:49:15
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| I've moved this post up, Yolady. I think you might find it interesting. |
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celestica
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 05:29:57
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Hi Caroline,
about being an angry child and stuck there, I agree with Meihnesor's suggestion to work some of this stuff out with a therapist. I also read a book recently that was enormously helpful to me in understanding regression and anger, by John Lee, called Growing Yourself Back Up. His previous book on anger "Facing the Fire" was also great.
Best of luck,
Amelia |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 08:39:56
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Caroline,
My therapist has told me that all emotions (anger, hate, joy) are neutral until we ATTACH something to them. It sounds like you've attached all the sh*tty stuff from your childhood and associate it with your negative feelings.
Reading all these responses about parents makes my parents sound angelic! My Dad just bugs me, and there was emotional and verbal abuse, but not to the extent that some of you have faced. I hope all of you can find some peace in dealing with the past. Just remember, you can't do anything about it. You can't change the past, and you don't know the future, so stay in the moment.
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 12:46:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Michele
Caroline,
My therapist has told me that all emotions (anger, hate, joy) are neutral until we ATTACH something to them. It sounds like you've attached all the sh*tty stuff from your childhood and associate it with your negative feelings.
Can you say more about this Michele? It sounds like one of those dodgy things therapists sometimes say which just go nowhere. I mean, I don't see how the ****ty childhood stuff could be attached to anything other than negative feelings.
I know we've talked about this before on the board, but wow Caroline, I do know where you're coming from. I too had an incredibly strong bond with my mother when I was very young - I remember thinking she was incredible, I wanted to be just like her, I absolutely adored her and was physically sick on several occasions from anxiety when she came home late, or ignored me, or whatever. I would have done anything to keep her from getting angry (which she did often) and I'm sure this led to my people-pleasing, anything to avoid confrontation personality. I used to not be able to bear people getting angry around me as it absolutely terrified me and made me feel entirely alone and isolated. This is something that has changed for me thanks to therapy, and I'm also working continually on expressing myself more especially when I get (consciously) angry.
As for forgiveness, I'm not sure. I too have read Louise Hay and Caroline Myss, and I love the idea that forgiveness is the way to health. Unfortunately that has never worked for me. I feel much, much better in myself when I consciously focus on my rage and direct it towards my parents. Maybe there'll come a day when I can forgive, but I'm not there yet. |
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amymae
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 19:33:38
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Hi Caroline,
I have to somewhat (and respectfully, ofcourse) disagree with some of the posters who recommend trying to forgive your mother as a way of getting rid of your tms symptoms. I think Dr. Sarno's point was that you will never be aware of your unconscious repressed feelings. I think you could try, and eventually believe that you completely forgive your mother but i don't think it would help your tms.
I thought I was okay with a situation regarding a parent, thought that all was forgiven, but i think my unconscious disagrees with that. Dr. Sarno described the unconscious as childish and selfish and that's why normal things like marriage and kids can create rage. I think if these seemingly benign things can create inner rage then trying to deny you have inner rage regarding your mother wouldn't help your tms. I think you're just supposed to acknowledge that these feelings are part of the rage that triggers your tms symptoms, rather than trying to get rid of the feelings themselves. But i could be completely wrong- its just an idea.
I just got Dr. sarno' videos in the mail today. I read both his books, am doing considerable better, but wanted a little something extra i guess. I'm ready to kick this thing. I'll let you know if i find the video's to be more helpful than his books.
I hope you starting feeling better soon,
amy |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 12:06:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Hilary
As for forgiveness, I'm not sure. I too have read Louise Hay and Caroline Myss, and I love the idea that forgiveness is the way to health. Unfortunately that has never worked for me. I feel much, much better in myself when I consciously focus on my rage and direct it towards my parents. Maybe there'll come a day when I can forgive, but I'm not there yet.
Forgiveness is where we all want to be but TMS is the reminder that we have not done enough work yet. Seems to me that we know inside when is the right time for forgiveness and when it's time to move on. I know i'm not there yet. |
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Rage towards my mom
