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avik
128 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2014 : 15:23:16
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I feel like have battled every iteration of TMS, and won...with the exception of one: neck spasms.
I seem to get sharp, super-painful neck spasms out of the blue, ALWAYS on the left side. Tests (of course) showed slight disc herniations in C5 and C6).
I have over the years come to the realization that they are indeed TMS. When I "ignore" them, I can make the chronic pain go away but once a spasms hits, I cant make that go away-I have to just sit back and wait it out.
Over the past 3-6 months I have started to experience them on the right side. I have never had them on the right side before. These ALWAYS start the day after I hit the gym really hard. It starts as some muscle soreness and then I feel the sapsm creaking in and then bam, im stuck with my neck locked in an painful position for days on end.
For the first time in nearly 3 years I am starting to doubt this neck thing is TMS. Reason being, I have tried everything over the past 3+ years and I cannot prevent these spasms. Ive journalled extensively, read every book I could get my hands on on TMS and have gone through extensive therapy. I have beaten HORRIBLE TMS ITERATIONS BEFORE. Yes I have stress in my life but I feel like for the first time in years that my personal issues are resolved and I feel mentally healthy.
My Dr. is making me believe this is being caused by putting pressure on my cervical spine and my muscles are in spasm to protect the spine. Im failr certain this is BS....but I how in G-ds name do I stop these spasms!
And if it is BS, why do these spasms only come on right after a big weightlifting routine or following sever muscle soreness? Is my brain trying to fool me into thinking they are caused by the weightlifting?
I am so frustrated. I cant imagine "talking myself" out of one of these once they hit.
Any help/advice is greatly appreciated. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2014 : 15:33:52
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quote:
Originally posted by avik
For the first time in nearly 3 years I am starting to doubt this neck thing is TMS.
So the fact that the symptom moved to the other side has shaken your belief. You see how clever TMS can be.
quote:
I have tried everything over the past 3+ years and I cannot prevent these spasms.
This is not a reason to discard the TMS diagnosis. The fact is, there is nothing you can do to prevent the spasms. Trying to prevent them in the first place is counterintuitive to what TMS recovery is all about.
It is not uncommon for one or two symptoms to remain even if you have been successful at TMS recovery. Consider it a life-long curse of being prone to TMS. I believe everyone who is prone to TMS has recurrences or low intensity symptoms from time to time. It is impossible to make it go away completely.
Personally I don't consider recovery as being symptom free. I believe recovery is about disarming the symptoms' power over you. It is about being able to ignore the symptoms and go about your life without paying attention to them. It is about accepting that when you are aware of the symptoms, you are receiving a message from your unconscious that there is some emotional turbulence beneath the surface that you might not fully realize or are avoiding thinking about. If you do this time and time again, every time you are aware of the symptoms, you recondition yourself. Over the long-term the symptoms will fade on their own. 3 years is really not a long time. 14 years in, I still feel mild lower back pain from time to time. I don't let it bother me. I accept it as a benign signal that my mindbody is sending me.
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Peregrinus
250 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2014 : 16:30:50
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quote:
Originally posted by avik
For the first time in nearly 3 years I am starting to doubt this neck thing is TMS.
Avik:
When I was your age I had a similar problem which was treated successfully with Indocin. That drug is similar to aspirin and is considered by many a wonder drug. My wife's grandmother took it for her hip for over 30 years.
I've always wondered if the neck pain was TMS (in my case). I doubt it since Indocin has no affect on my lower back pain which I still have. |
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avik
128 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2014 : 07:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by avik
For the first time in nearly 3 years I am starting to doubt this neck thing is TMS.
So the fact that the symptom moved to the other side has shaken your belief. You see how clever TMS can be.
quote:
I have tried everything over the past 3+ years and I cannot prevent these spasms.
This is not a reason to discard the TMS diagnosis. The fact is, there is nothing you can do to prevent the spasms. Trying to prevent them in the first place is counterintuitive to what TMS recovery is all about.
It is not uncommon for one or two symptoms to remain even if you have been successful at TMS recovery. Consider it a life-long curse of being prone to TMS. I believe everyone who is prone to TMS has recurrences or low intensity symptoms from time to time. It is impossible to make it go away completely.
Personally I don't consider recovery as being symptom free. I believe recovery is about disarming the symptoms' power over you. It is about being able to ignore the symptoms and go about your life without paying attention to them. It is about accepting that when you are aware of the symptoms, you are receiving a message from your unconscious that there is some emotional turbulence beneath the surface that you might not fully realize or are avoiding thinking about. If you do this time and time again, every time you are aware of the symptoms, you recondition yourself. Over the long-term the symptoms will fade on their own. 3 years is really not a long time. 14 years in, I still feel mild lower back pain from time to time. I don't let it bother me. I accept it as a benign signal that my mindbody is sending me.
Dave-
I think I am doubting the TMS because I have sever pain on my spine and both my dr and PT guys both said that that indicates pain emanating from the discs.
I know that this is a real area of contention for Sarno and there is no real proof that links any of this to the discs its just really hard to accept TMS when these guys are both telling me otherwise.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2014 : 10:02:12
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quote:
Originally posted by avik
I think I am doubting the TMS because I have sever pain on my spine and both my dr and PT guys both said that that indicates pain emanating from the discs.
You have abandoned the TMS diagnosis by choosing to have physical therapy. Either you have to follow through on the doctor's suggestion, or commit to the TMS approach. You cannot have it both ways.
Assuming their diagnosis of "pain emanating from the discs" is correct, what do they suggest you do about it? |
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avik
128 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2014 : 10:16:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by avik
I think I am doubting the TMS because I have sever pain on my spine and both my dr and PT guys both said that that indicates pain emanating from the discs.
You have abandoned the TMS diagnosis by choosing to have physical therapy. Either you have to follow through on the doctor's suggestion, or commit to the TMS approach. You cannot have it both ways.
Assuming their diagnosis of "pain emanating from the discs" is correct, what do they suggest you do about it?
I should have clarified this: I am seeing my PT for a rotator cuff issue that definitively is not TMS and is purely the result of some bad form lifting.
While I was there I asked about my neck and since the PT is a friend, he did some "work" on it.
I agree, I should not have given it any attention.
He said I need to work on doing spinal exercises to get the disc back into place. |
Edited by - avik on 12/04/2014 10:18:27 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2014 : 10:30:47
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quote:
Originally posted by avik
I am seeing my PT for a rotator cuff issue that definitively is not TMS and is purely the result of some bad form lifting.
Why do you think it is "definitively ... not TMS"?
As for the discs, hopefully you accept that they don't go "out of place" and they are just doing their job. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2014 : 10:45:17
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Avik, I agree with Dave, you aren't looking at your injuries from a TMS perspective and this is a TMS site. I've had rotator cuff/frozen shoulder/C5-C6 numerous times and rid myself of it by waiting it out and thinking TMS'ly. I've also had "friends" who were acus, rolfers, PT's, masseuses and body workers of all types and persuations. Funny, when the money runs out and you stop making appointments with them the friendship also ends. People who take up these occupations are usually very amicable, charismatic, athletic, and while they have your undivided attention try to sell you the latest snake-oyls, BlueGreen algaes, Chinese pills, salves, ointments, bee pollens, Chi Machines, etc., etc., etc.
Before you have surgery on your back you may want to read up on failed back surgery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_back_syndrome
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2014 : 15:29:23
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Hi Avik,
Your post contained several issues that I relate to and I get an overwhelming message that you are very frustrated with the performance of your TMS progress. On reading your frustrating post I would have expected it to come from a newbie as opposed to someone that has apparently overcome many, many different TMS issues since 2010. To me you are a success and not regressing.
In your post I notice you intermingle “real issues (rotor cup)” with “TMS”. I call this a TMS ploy to keep you confused. As a windsurfer I get pretty banged up and have had some horrible injuries and issues to contend with. I categorize these as back door TMS and give them no credence. Such items include broken foot, torn MCL, and a fish hook through finger. All of these required immediate attention as they were real injuries. Mentioning my “broken foot”, I have to say it was wonderful that it happened in Maui on the last wave jump on the last session of a fantastic windsurfing season – I did not miss a day and resolved myself to two month recovery time without anger!
May I get personal and mention a few other things I noticed? You say you “battled” and “won” in your opening statement. I don’t believe TMS is a battle, rather a changing of beliefs and viewpoints. You could consider it a joke or game that is in constant progress that needs your vigilance and awareness at all times.
I remember several years ago we corresponded and compared notes on different pain levels within our necks, what I wrote then may not be as applicable today, and I also view my neck issue very differently to that time. For me those debilitating spasms are a thing of the past except on very rare occasions.
It is natural to reconsider and doubt hard fast ailments such as your neck. I have done the same, what makes it worse is input from others especially Drs and Physios. I find myself listening for particular facts that fit the TMS scenario and discard the rest. I have respect for these people, in the right setting, and ultimately the decision is mine.
With my neck pain recently I have come to terms by making the following statements that describe what I think today:
I am sure my crooked neck and subsequent pain was created by stress (TMS) over a twenty five year span.
I can diminish the pain completely with TMS practices, for the three months of the summer in a stress free environment of windsurfing.
My crooked neck is now arthritic on X-rays with lost lodocic curvature and a bulge to the side. So what!
I fear and would not consider neck fusion or surgery, like my friends are having. This fear is based on losing control that I have presently, and the disgraceful success rate of my friends.
I do not believe that my crooked neck will in any way be straightened with TMS practices, as with recent information I understand the cartilage and tissues around the bones have been remolded over a twenty years or so period. Every search I have done regarding neck correction has led to chiropractors so I am undecided and stuck.
I have also relegated my neck to the level of “bothersome” as opposed to a pain problem, as by choice my daily habits are no longer affected by it.
For fun I consider my neck pain like a friendly parrot that is pecking me to get fed, so if my neck hurts I need to do some physiological thinking.
Avik, I think that reducing your expectations would help. You may be too hard on yourself with the weight lifting and other life situations. We all live in a driven world that demands the best at all times, and without realizing it we become swept up in a current of having to perform the best in everything we do, ask yourself why do you train? Is it competing with pressure or do you do it to feel good? Are you influenced by what others think?
My wife had a knee replacement four weeks ago, and I have watched my sweetheart sustain the most horrible pains ever. I tell her this is healing pain compared to her chronic pain of twenty years. The most wonderful, poignant thing her surgeon said to her was: “Her knee will heal not when she or he wants it to, but when the knee is ready”. The same can be applied to your TMS pains.
I wish you well
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
Edited by - andy64tms on 12/05/2014 15:33:39 |
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njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2014 : 02:15:23
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Thanks to Avik for bringing up the rotator cuff issue. Coincidentally, I've just spent the afternoon with three friends who are convinced they have torn rotator cuffs. One is my husband who has driven me nuts for 30 years with various forms of TMS (imo) usually involving his back. Another is my best friend, a nurse, who rather gently tipped off a horse just two days before her husband died of cancer (at home) and has suffered ever since. The third, a mental health counselor, is going through an ugly divorce and her rotator cuff tear supposedly came from splitting wood, a job she does almost every day.
This sure as heck sounds like TMS to me.
I posted on tmswiki asking for advice from forum members who also have or have had rotator cuff tears. So far, no responses and it's been quite awhile. Is this a contentious issue in the TMS community?
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2014 : 20:37:05
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quote:
Originally posted by njoy
I posted on tmswiki asking for advice from forum members who also have or have had rotator cuff tears. So far, no responses and it's been quite awhile. Is this a contentious issue in the TMS community?
It's come up recently, maybe try a search under "frozen shoulder", I responded to someone recently with my experiences.
Misery loves company, TMS symptom du jour. Used to be ulcers, backs, migraines, plantar fascitis--TMS symptoms are like fashions, one comes into style and another goes out, no longer being cool, everyone's got it, "My pain is different--and more exclusive then yours." "I've got the best surgeon, he does pro-athletes." BMW's were in, now it's Audis. TMS pain symps go in and out of vogue--everything old is new again.
We're indeed fortunate to know about TMS and have the boards to keep us current on the latest-greatest psychosomatic symps.
==================================================
"All my friends in Los Angeles are the sensitive type. They all have like all the diseases like Chronic Fatigue, Epstien Barr, Fibromyalgia. Like all the diseases where the only symptoms seem to be you had a really crappy childhood and at the prospect of full time work ya feel kinda achy and tired."
Posted by Skizzik @ TMSHelp from comedian Maria Bamford
"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them"
Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno
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Edited by - tennis tom on 12/10/2014 20:43:55 |
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avik
128 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2014 : 23:40:41
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Andy, Njoy and Alexis-
Thanks very much for your posts-I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with me.
Andy, you hit th enail on the head.
I am frustrated.
Also, I do feel like im battling. I have been battling for nearly 20 years but I do agree I need to start looking at things from a more accepting standpoint.
This week when yet another spasm arose, I chose to "let the pain wash over me" as oppose to fight it. I then observed that pain with as little subjectivity as possible and more importantly, with limited anger. This was followed by me going out to meet a friend for dinner.
I had excruciating pain up until sitting down at the table, all the while not getting angry at the pain but rather accepting it for what it is, and allowing it to do its thing. The pain completely subsided about 5 minutes later.
F-ING AMAZING.
This was a major turning point for me as I have (as stated above) really already dealt with some really challenging TMS iterations i the past but for for some reason, my neck has always been a challenge for me.
ALL of you really helped me realize that there is no "fighting" or "battling" but rather accepting and non-judgement...and this has really worked.
I feel like I have turned a new corner.
For me what I think I realized the most was that it was ok for me, to be nice to me.
Me battling the TMS, was ME battling ME.
Thanks again to all.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2014 : 14:13:57
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quote:
Originally posted by avik
This week when yet another spasm arose, I chose to "let the pain wash over me" as oppose to fight it. I then observed that pain with as little subjectivity as possible and more importantly, with limited anger. This was followed by me going out to meet a friend for dinner.
I had excruciating pain up until sitting down at the table, all the while not getting angry at the pain but rather accepting it for what it is, and allowing it to do its thing. The pain completely subsided about 5 minutes later.
F-ING AMAZING.
Congratulations on this milestone. Acceptance is key. The pain will take care of itself if you truly accept it as benign.
It won't always be as easy, but if you are consistent in your approach, over time there will be fewer incidents and they will be of shorter duration. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2014 : 14:10:57
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quote:
Me battling the TMS, was ME battling ME.
This is very insightful. A good question for TMSers - what are you fighting, when you resist the notion that your pain is psychogenic?
I'm gonna sit with that one for a while.
--
What were you expecting? |
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For the first time in a long time, I am regressing
