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Speer390

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2014 :  10:52:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
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Edited by - Speer390 on 06/11/2018 21:23:36

Dave

USA
1863 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2014 :  13:09:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why does it matter?

However you characterize it, you have experienced relief. The process worked for you. I do not believe it meets the definition of placebo, but I'm sure others can provide valid arguments to the contrary. In any case that debate serves no purpose other than to increase doubt and undermine recovery.

Perhaps the increased doubts and fears are due to something going on in your life now that you are not fully facing up to. Some part of you is opening the door for TMS to return.
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andy64tms

USA
588 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2014 :  15:50:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Speer 390,

Dr Sarno states that it is knowledge therapy and an understanding of what is really causing your pain that effects relief. A placebo is a mere statement or procedure without any understanding of what is going on, it usually contains pretence and untruthfulness and blind faith. For this reason alone TMS is far from a placebo.

I’ve read much about placebos and TMS, and conclude that it does not really matter, when I see the word “Placebo”, I avoid it and just replace it with the word “Belief”.

I recently viewed the attached video where Dr Bruce Lipton states that: “as many as 1/3 to 2/3 of all medical procedures and medical healing are placebos.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylmwoJDYGjk

It amazes me how many people only get temporary relief from surgeries. My wife is out visiting her friend today who has had three back fusions, cortisone shots and pain killers for years. When I gave her a copy of Dr Schubiner’s “Unlearn your pain”, she returned it saying she did not believe her pain was caused by psychological reasons.

I also doubt whether my back recovery in 2000 was a placebo, as I understood for the very first time after twenty years of pain that while the pain was real the reasons for it were not.
Good Luck

Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception

Edited by - andy64tms on 06/12/2014 02:00:25
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Peregrinus

250 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2014 :  07:36:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Speer:
Great question!
I must disagree with Andy however. It is far from obvious to me that a placebo and the various TMS practices discussed here are not manifestations of the same phenomenon. In both cases the individual has reason to believe that a physical explanation of his or her pain doesn’t exist. In the case of a placebo the patient believes that the treatment has removed the physical cause of the pain. In the case of TMS practices, the patient is convinced that there was no physical cause for the pain in the first case. I might add that faith healings operate in a similar fashion: the patient believes that the physical cause of the pain was removed by magic.
The fact that placebos are so effective is to me reassuring. However, as Andy points out, use of placebos (and magic spells) work because the patient is willing to be duped.
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skizzik

USA
780 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2014 :  15:52:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pain goes first, fear goes much later
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njoy

Canada
188 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2014 :  03:44:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is Ted talker/physician/researcher Dr. Lissa Rankin who maintains the placebo effect is solid proof that mind can heal body:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWQfe__fNbs

She says the medical establishment sees placebo as an "inconvenient truth" that works against the prevailing view of what science is. To me, it seems that science that fights to discredit any truth, however inconvenient, is no science at all.

The fact is that tms theory healed you. Are you going to let a single word make you ill, again? Wouldn't that be the very definition of close-minded? The opposite of science?

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MatthewNJ

USA
426 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2014 :  19:54:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with Dave. "Why does it matter" Your thoughts create your life. There is scientific evidence backing that. "The Emotional Life Of Your Brain" Richard Davidson is one resource.

Matthew
Less activated, more regulated and more resilient.
Ferretsx3@comcast.net

Organizer of TMSwiki.org/chat

Edited by - MatthewNJ on 06/20/2014 19:54:54
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