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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
 Posted - 11/28/2013 : 11:42:55
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
I agree with chickenbone and plum completely.
Tennis tom, one aspect that keeps the confusion about TMS being completely harmless is the famous 12 daily reminders that you refer to often in your own posts.
3 -- TMS is a harmless condition, caused by my repressed emotions
God Bless you alix.
People pay with their lives for the sake of this confusion.
Susan my love, do you know Forest, the gentle man who founded the TMS wiki? He tells that a vital step in his healing was to read the success stories of those who had walked the healing path before him. Maybe you could seek out success stories from those who have beaten cancer. There are many (Louise Hay is one). Saturate yourself in their beauty and forget and forgive those who feed the fires of confusion and doubt. With love, angel.
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2013 : 15:49:46
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
I agree with chickenbone and plum completely.
Tennis tom, one aspect that keeps the confusion about TMS being completely harmless is the famous 12 daily reminders that you refer to often in your own posts.
3 -- TMS is a harmless condition, caused by my repressed emotions
Alix, glad to see you've come out to once again badger me, prove me wrong and nit-pick the Good Doctor's theory. I know the answer to that but posting here less and less and feel better and better. I'm cured of my GOODISM and no longer feel obsessed to help everyone on the planet understand TMS. The answers are all in the books--READING COMPREHENSION.
Have a happy Thanksgiving, sorry Donald Dubin was of NO help to you.
Adios,
tt/lsmft
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EileenTM
92 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2013 : 20:31:17
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Susan, I hope things improve for you. I wish you peace and healing. There is a book I heard about recently by a woman, Anita Moorjani who had cancer, then had a near death experience and was completely healed. Perhaps there is something in her experience that might be helpful for you.
Eileen
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2013 : 21:46:04
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I had past life experiences listening to Dr. Brian Weiss, I was
less fearful and able to accept my illness and possible premature
passing because of him. Hope this does not cause any discomfort
for you or anyone reading. My posts have been a bit insensitive,
partly because I accept my own mortality. My sincere apologies. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2013 : 18:42:07
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Tennis tom, it is strange that you bring the name of Don Dubin up. The fact is that Don told me about his pain issues that he firmly attributed to TMS and that he was treating psychologically. Sadly as you know, he was suffering from a terminal illness.
Susan, sorry to hijack your thread. I always appreciated your frankness and the points you are making on this thread are spot on. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2013 : 19:24:38
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| Alix, he died of cancer I believe, so what's your point? |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2013 : 19:50:03
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He firmly believed that his symptoms that he shared with me were harmless TMS. In retrospect however they lined up completely with his illness.
Even a savvy TMS professional like Don was confused (or procrastinated) sadly. I am not sure you can make the point that everything is a matter of simple reading comprehension and that the books have all the answers. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2013 : 20:01:57
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| What symptoms did Don Dubin share with you? Every TMS book says get checked out by a doctor to see if it's anything serious. If nothing "organic" is found then proceed to trying the TMS method. If the doctor did not find cancer do you then blame the book, the doctor, the cancer, bad luck, God or the devil? I have a doctor. Have you read "MINDBODY PRESCRIPTION" AND "THE DIVIDED MIND"? The "12 Daily Reminders" are from "HEALING BACK PAIN", his second book. The reminders clearly state they refer to BACK PAIN being BENIGN. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 11/29/2013 20:23:45 |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2013 : 20:55:29
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I am not willing to disclose what Don told me on a public board. The 12 daily reminders are not limited to back pain.
But whether some illnesses are or are not TMS and how to address them is pretty murky and not as simple as you make it sound.
I find the cases of patients resolving successfully their harmless TMS back, hip etc... pain but having to deal with much more sinister issues down the road quite distressing. Is it linked? |
Edited by - alix on 11/29/2013 21:15:56 |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2013 : 22:44:47
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Don was a great guy - he helped me really turn the corner with pain.
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2013 : 23:16:51
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Alix, Have you read "MINDBODY PRESCRIPTION" AND "THE DIVIDED MIND"?
Have you read Steven Ray Ozanich's "THE GREAT PAIN DECEPTION"? |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2013 : 23:27:07
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| Yes, yes, and yes. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2013 : 23:30:57
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
The 12 daily reminders are not limited to back pain.
Alix, pay close attention to Dr. Sarno's Daily Reminder #6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmDB1U3z1Yk |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2013 : 23:33:29
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
Yes, yes, and yes.
Time to review then. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2013 : 23:35:22
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quote:
Originally posted by altherunner
Don was a great guy - he helped me really turn the corner with pain.
I agree, he was a very special person. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2013 : 00:02:05
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
quote:
Originally posted by alix
Yes, yes, and yes.
Time to review then.
Tennis tom, I resolved my pain issue but I deviated significantly from the main orthodoxy. But it is not about me. I strongly believe like plum that TMS fits in a bigger picture and the books you mention do not have all the answers.
What I find troubling from some of the recent reports are people that seemed to have solved their TMS problem but experience several months/years later a new more aggressive and less manageable incarnation of it. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2013 : 01:00:50
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
quote:
Originally posted by alix
The 12 daily reminders are not limited to back pain.
Alix, pay close attention to Dr. Sarno's Daily Reminder #6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmDB1U3z1Yk
So you should edit your 1000s of posts to say that your link only apples to back pain. |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2013 : 04:14:03
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alix, you are right. This is not an issue of reading comprehension. It is precisely because we have read and understood Sarno's books that we are confident of their place in the mindbody schema. This thread serves to illuminate the underlying problem, quite simply giving away one's power to an authority figure. I'm not the first person to be concerned at the cult-like nature of Sarno's followers and I won't be last.
I had a dear friend fall prey to a cult. As is always the case, the foundations borrowed from finer sources. In this case it was Jung's Shadow and everything was cast in this light. Anyone who questioned the leader was humiliated and told their challenge represented a manifestation of their shadow. I watched these waves of confusion slowly chip away at my friends mind. His guru died this year but my friend remains trapped.
We must think for ourselves and not rely too heavily on one source. As someone wiser than I once said, "Simply put, whenever we deny one side of the dialectic by over-identifying with its opposite, we have lost the plot."
I really admire John Sarno, his contribution to mindbody understanding of chronic pain is a boon but he is not the Father of this movement and I would urge people to explore the greater context. There are thousands of books on this subject which doubtless is intimidating. With this in mind, perhaps a recommendation will be welcomed. Candace Pert was a pioneer who brought a nourishing, feminine wisdom to the cold body of science. In addition to the oft-referenced 'Molecules of Emotion', there are two audiobooks which probe the nature of mindbody from both the scientific and spiritual viewpoints. 'To Feel Go(o)d' is the most accessible. 'Your Body is Your Subconscious Mind' is richer and probably best for the more scientifically minded.
Unlike Sarno, Candace Pert embraced physical treatments where necessary, within her healing framework. She encouraged people to seek full information about their condition and then make a decision.
I fear there are people who have been cowed into not seeking the help they need and this feels like a form of learned helplessness. How can it not? This may be my perspective alone but Steve's response to Susan tacitly reinforced The Doctrine. That was probably the last thing she or anyone in her situation needs to hear. These good people must know it is right and good to take back their power and make treatment choices based on their instincts, circumstance and condition.
Putting the solipsism that pure Sarnoism engenders to one side, there are other reasons and deep needs that underscore chronic pain, (and the degenerative diseases, chronic fatigue, cancer, mental illness...). To forget these other factors renders us gravely unbalanced.
It's quite clear something is wrong in stretching Sarno's theory to breaking point. The best way out of this pickle is to let it rest as one damn fine model for chronic pain and to let the creepers lead one to the expanse of healing waters that have served and nurtured mankind for all time. Open your eyes. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2013 : 07:00:47
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Excellent post, Plum. I agree with you completely. I consider myself to be doing very well and attribute that in large part to my discovery of TMS. However, I did not experience real healing until I started doing somatic experiencing and EFT. My goal now with pain episodes is not to get rid of the pain, but to completely change my attitude toward the pain, get to know it, develop a friendship with it. You will not fear your pain once you get to know it. The pain is protective, I have no doubt of that. It leads me to realize what I have been doing mentally that is detrimental to my health. So I did not follow the rigid TMS orthodoxy. But I firmly believe that Sarno would be ok with this. It is just some of his radical followers who would object.
When anything becomes radical, the meaning is lost. |
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Cancer Got Me, Not TMS
