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icelikeaninja
USA
316 Posts |
 Posted - 06/19/2013 : 14:00:09
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Tomorrow I am going for the results of my full work up. Blood panel,stds,liver etc. I am scared to death. My doctor also wants me back on Lexapro.
I am looking at message boards about anti depressants and the pain symptoms I have and it seems alot of people are getting better from their chronic pains by taking them.
I assume there is either a placebo effect or the alteration of the minds chemicals are being moved around to the point where the focus is no longer on the pain but rather the body's way of handling this new group of chemicals.
In either incidence it just proved the tms theory. If its a placebo then the pain was never really a problem. If its from mind altering chemicals then again pain was never really a problem.
These little reports have got me thinking about things in my life that have made any pains I had really bad and that was caffeine.
It gives me such a rush and a high I could see why most Americans are addicted to the stuff. Today is my first day off the stuff because it makes me feel great at first but then I am plagued with anxiety thus constantly checking for new symptoms etc.
A little before I got the pains I was on lexapro because I went through a horrible break up and could not live in my skin. It got that bad that I resorted to something I said I would never do and take these drugs.
How many tms people are on some sort of mind altering pill? Do you recommend it at all? Is it short term or long term?
When I first discovered TMS I was taking Cymbalta because "depression hurts". All it did was give me morning sickness, now I know what pregnant women go through. haha |
Edited by - icelikeaninja on 06/19/2013 14:02:53 |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 14:44:57
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I am not totally against taking responsible doses of some drugs to help with symptoms and concentration. I take a low dose of Triavil because it keeps me calmer than I would normally be, allowing me to have really restful sleep. I feel that I am better able to work on my psychological issues more effectively. I don't see anything wrong with this, but it should be avoided, IF YOU CAN. Drugs can often help as long as you realize that the psychological work needs to be done so you can eventually avoid the drugs.
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icelikeaninja
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 15:00:18
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Chickenbone,
I am conflicted because I read so many places that this is placebo.
When I was on lexapro I understood there were things in my life that I needed to work on.
The lexapro actually went against my tms personality traits. For instance, I cannot say no, I make everyones problems into mine. For the first time in my life on lexapro when somebody would approach me with a concept or tell me I should help someone do something I straight up told the person "It's not my problem so I am not dealing with it".
It actually felt good to say that for the first time in my life ever! I forgot what the problem was but it really wasnt that big of a deal but I know off the lexapro I would stress it and keep thinking about the outcome. |
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icelikeaninja
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 15:01:20
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| Also- I stood up for myself without thinking I was a bad guy or doing something selfish. |
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Birdie78
Germany
145 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 16:18:09
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ice, could be placebo in some cases, could be a change in neurotransmitters, too.
I tried many, many different medications in the past and the only one that really seemed to help was lyrica. It was different from the others: I was less anxious, had less pain and had less mood swings. I felt like the person that I wanted to be (I guess it had something to do with the GABA system, the active component of Lyrica is pregabalin).
Well, I decided to came off this medication and it was one of my worst experiences ever as nearly everything begun to hurt, I was extremly oversensitive to pain and to other stimuli. I felt extremely depressed and vulnerable. Before the sun had shined, now it seemed I could hardly see the sky for black clouds.
When I took Lyrica I felt so good, I really never felt so good before in my life. So I decided I wanted to generate this positive feelings without any drugs. I knew I wanted to get there.
So perhaps you can tell yourself "ok, with this medication I was able to do some things I wasn't able before so I take this as my goal and try to remember how great it felt to say no!"
I am off Lyrica since July last year know and really had a hard time since then. But it was the right decicion: I had some moments with this great "lyrica-feeling", but without lyrica (guess it's the outcome of daily meditation & relaxation)
I really think we are able to alter our brain-chemistry, even if we won't see the fast over-night results like with some medications be it due to placebo or a "real" change in chemistry!
Kind regards from Germany sends Birdie |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 18:42:39
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Ice and Berdie, I think you both should consider taking a drug if it really helps you cope. You can strive to get off the drug. That is what I am doing with the Triavil. It is the only drug that ever helped me. I stopped taking it for 8 years before realizing that I had TMS, but life was much more difficult for me without it and I was not able to make much psychological progress because most of the time, I was just trying to get through the day, not to mention the night. Don't put yourselves through this!!
I don't believe that these drugs are placebo. Technically, they are not because they do actually do something in the brain. However, the problem with these drugs is that the effect on any individual brain chemistry is a complete crap shoot. That is why 2 drugs of the same class can have totally different effects on different people. The trick is to find a drug that works for you with a minimum of risks and side effects.
Only YOU can decide on the quality of life you want and deserve. As with any drug, we need to weigh the risks with the benefits. All drugs have risks and side effects. But there are benefits also. Try to think of these drugs as any other drugs. |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 22:21:22
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I made a mistake when my pain first came on. Nobody could explain my pain, but I suspected in my soul that it was stress related -- even with the fears of a botched surgery and nerve damage and a possible hernia-- and I was in an absolute panic.
I made the error of consulting the various med forums on Dr. Google. Dr. Google's patients, all self-selected, told me that the anti-depressants and anti anxiety drugs they were taking were causing more side effects than their obviously anxiety induced state. Reading these words of wisdom, I quit taking Cymbalta and Ativan just about 2 months into it. I had those same horrible side effects of withdrawal that I learned from Dr. Google's patients.
I believe, sincerely, that if I had stayed on not Cymbalta, which I believe does nothing for anxiety, as well as the typical SSRI's, but had run my course on Ativan, I would have settled my brain enough to be able to deduce the psychogenic cause of my symptoms. Instead, I went off, the panic grew worse, and the fear of the fear of the symptoms (which increasing grew worse) sent me off on an terror journey that kept me literally torqued from neck to pelvis.
I went back on Cymbalta, but quit rationally, because I could see no results, and took a course of Ativan which helped. I never craved Ativan, which I took when needed, after calming.
Remember, there is a difference between addiction and dependency. One must take the best course of action for the moment and construct a course of action (or non-action) for later when more in control.
Just my opinion.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
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Birdie78
Germany
145 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 00:56:26
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Chickenbone & back2-it: That was the reason some years ago why I decided to give some drugs a try. because I wasn't able to cope with the stresors of my life any longer and felt I needed some "chemical support". But I also knew I don't wanted to be on drugs for a very long time, so I told my self that as soon as I felt better again I wanted to lern how to cope with these stress and emotional issues without taking permanent medication. I really don't regret my decicion because I am getting better and better, all without drugs, only with TMS-work.
But I totally agree: if one is completely stressed out and exhausted and really needed some relief and a "quick fix", medication can really act as some life-safer.
I don't regret this experiences with Lyrica, but I also don't regret my decicion to come off.
When I decided that I needed some drugs I was in a permanent state of anxiety and hyperarrousal, I was in severe pain and could only lie around and I wasn't able to sleep.
Now anxiety only comes occasionally, in 97% I sleep very well and my pain is a bit better, too (but severe enough and far away from a "normal" life).
Kind regards from Germany sends Birdie |
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gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 20:16:36
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quote:
Originally posted by icelikeaninja
I am conflicted because I read so many places that this is placebo.
Why does this matter so much to you? Who cares if it's a placebo? It helps you or it doesn't help you--that's what's important. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2013 : 09:48:57
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quote:
Originally posted by icelikeaninja
I am conflicted because I read so many places that this is placebo.
Clearly that is not the only reason you are conflicted.
You seem to fit the mold of somebody with TMS-prone personality. You are a self-described goodist, and obsessive to a fault. It is the obsession that may prevent you from taking the plunge necessary to recover.
The first step to recovery requires acceptance, and you are fighting that. It is not as if you have control over those forces, but they are exerting their influence nonetheless. If you cannot find a way to stop the obsessions from undermining your belief in the TMS diagnosis, then you need to at least find a way to act as if you believe 100% in the diagnosis.
If you cannot do either, then I'm afraid you are simply not ready to take this path.
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icelikeaninja
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2013 : 09:35:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by icelikeaninja
I am conflicted because I read so many places that this is placebo.
Clearly that is not the only reason you are conflicted.
You seem to fit the mold of somebody with TMS-prone personality. You are a self-described goodist, and obsessive to a fault. It is the obsession that may prevent you from taking the plunge necessary to recover.
The first step to recovery requires acceptance, and you are fighting that. It is not as if you have control over those forces, but they are exerting their influence nonetheless. If you cannot find a way to stop the obsessions from undermining your belief in the TMS diagnosis, then you need to at least find a way to act as if you believe 100% in the diagnosis.
If you cannot do either, then I'm afraid you are simply not ready to take this path.
Dave,
Excellent point. I have moments of clarity and then it all goes to hell so quickly.
I have had moments where I have complete clarity and I am not alarmed. Today I was writing something fierce about my childhood that I simple cannot accept happened to me.
Sarno mentions sexual abuse as being the worst and I agree that is bad but I had every other type of abuse but that.
A quick example and how my mind tries to deny what is going on was when I was 10 years old, I had about $300 dollars saved up from various chores,errands,tooth fairy money etc. I came back home one day from a weekend with my mom upstate and all my money was gone.
I freaked out and found out my grandparents took it because they were horrible gamblers who were addicted, as I was writing these things down what came to my head was porn of all things and how I should watch it now.
My pains have been moving all over the pelvic area and it scared me to death still. Keep thinking I have something eating my insides. I know the pain is real and mind induced because sometimes it appears muscular, other times it is dulled down when I sit a certain way and other times sitting a certain way will start it. ugh.
There are just so many things that go inside my head that make me doubt.
A few years back before I learned of TMS pain I was a member of health boards. Man that place is scary because everyone just talks about what drugs they take for this and that.
Yesterday I logged in to see how my mind has changed in that regard. Whooa Nelly. Same thing I am preaching here, pains moving around, getting test after test after test.
I just think deep down this is to bad to be tms.
Dr.Rashbaum told me when he saw me in April that I'd be a graduate student if I were in TMS school and that it would be pointless for me to go to his meetings.
The great news is I got a really cool stable steady high paying job that I start the 2nd. This means I can go back to my TMS therapist. I feel the rage but have a really really hard time bringing it out not because of the pain but because I desensitized myself to not "feel". I thought by consciously forcing myself not to feel that I'd be doing good but that was not the case.
Once again thanks everyone for responding. It makes me understand how most of us are alike.
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2013 : 10:49:27
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quote:
A quick example and how my mind tries to deny what is going on was when I was 10 years old, I had about $300 dollars saved up from various chores,errands,tooth fairy money etc. I came back home one day from a weekend with my mom upstate and all my money was gone.
I freaked out and found out my grandparents took it because they were horrible gamblers who were addicted, as I was writing these things down what came to my head was porn of all things and how I should watch it now.
After my experience and after much consideration, I really have come to believe that, with rare exceptions, past trauma is NOT what is causing current pain.
What keeps the pain alive, in my opinion, is FEAR OF THE FEAR of the pain. Think on that.
Also consider the many Holocaust survivors, or survivors of Hiroshima, who had trauma that we cannot even consider or imagine, and the majority went on to lead lives free of pain.
We all have trauma of some sort, but not all have pain. Why?
Fear of fear cold cocks you before you leave your bed in the morning.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
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icelikeaninja
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2013 : 11:18:15
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Interesting. It's been so long since I first recovered from Tms that my symptoms spontaneously resolved. I believe it wAs about sun set and I realized I had no pain.
The reason I hadn't noticed was probably because I wasn't fearful and thinking about it anymore.
My therapist dug into my past in the beginning and then I remember just talking about current events with her and forgetting the past. She would mention how current scenarios are similar to ones I had in the past.
It's so interesting, that day I was freed I had no pain and didn't even notice it. So yes fear was probably the last thing I conquered and I didn't even notice it |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2013 : 01:00:15
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Ice,
Just my opinion... stay far away from the meds. If you want to truly get past this, the way is through, not around. Meds will at best stall your recovery by dulling symptoms and at worst... keep you in a cycle of suffering and re-medicating that you'll never be able to break.
Are there times when meds are the final life line for us? Times when the pain and suffering aren't worth living with? Of course. And in these times of utter desperation, meds are the right choice.
But from what I've read from you, this isn't the case. You are capable of doing the work.
It's not easy. But nothing worthwhile is.
I'm a dude on the Internet. Take my advice with a grain of salt. But I highly recommend avoiding medications for your situation |
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icelikeaninja
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2013 : 08:32:56
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I am not going back on them.
I retread Aces keys and think they might work. I thought at first it was just chatter but after applying some techniques while going to sleep and waking up in the middle of the night it helped.
I find myself tensing certain body parts and having to breath deep to let it go but it keeps tensing back when Iam not conciously thinking about it. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2013 : 09:43:54
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quote:
Originally posted by icelikeaninja
My pains have been moving all over...
Pain moving around is a hallmark of TMS.
quote:
...when I sit a certain way and other times sitting a certain way will start it.
TMS conditions us to feel the pain exactly when we expect it, in a manner that is most likely to make us believe it is a physical problem.
quote:
...I just think deep down this is to bad to be tms.
The absolute worst pain of my life was back spasms that I later realized was a TMS attack.
It seems you have a lot of childhood issues, and have developed obsessive personality traits that are equivalent TMS symptoms. If/when you are ready to truly accept the TMS diagnosis and commit 100% to the treatment, you are likely to have success. However, someone with your deep seeded issues may require psychotherapy. Even if you have had it before, it may be beneficial now when combined with the newfound knowledge and belief that the pain has a psychological cause. |
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icelikeaninja
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2013 : 10:02:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by icelikeaninja
My pains have been moving all over...
Pain moving around is a hallmark of TMS.
quote:
...when I sit a certain way and other times sitting a certain way will start it.
TMS conditions us to feel the pain exactly when we expect it, in a manner that is most likely to make us believe it is a physical problem.
quote:
...I just think deep down this is to bad to be tms.
The absolute worst pain of my life was back spasms that I later realized was a TMS attack.
Yes, I am 200 percent going back to therapy next month. Actually looking forward to it. I am not a drama filled person but there certainly was alot of it growing up.
I know I had alot of traits of it growing up. Had to check it because I would purposely try to ruin all family holidays for no reason. Had all the symptoms of bipolar disorder but now think alot of it was from my issues from childhood.
It seems you have a lot of childhood issues, and have developed obsessive personality traits that are equivalent TMS symptoms. If/when you are ready to truly accept the TMS diagnosis and commit 100% to the treatment, you are likely to have success. However, someone with your deep seeded issues may require psychotherapy. Even if you have had it before, it may be beneficial now when combined with the newfound knowledge and belief that the pain has a psychological cause.
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one last round
